Proposal: J.T. Miller to TOR

[Bankerguy]

only on HF are unproven young players/picks worth more than actual proven commodity

JT miller is a top line winger who can play C and win fsceoffs. He hits, he plays hard in all 3 zones and is clutch. Hes signed at a discount and u get him for TWO years... lol guys like Tatar returns a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder... Jt. Miller brings way more to your team.

Jt. Miller will return a A-tier bluechip prospect and a mid to late first and possibly a lesser youngish 22-25 player with potential.
Ya'll will see

Most leafs fans in this thread are delusional.

 

[Canuck Luck]

I understand what your trying to say, and sure on the Canucks even without Miller there are wingers the Canucks would rather use in their top 6, but its not just offense that kerfoot can provide, its a 200 foot game. My point is that he has value even to the canucks playing a 3rd line role. Why do you think your Gm wants to get faster, because he wants the team to be quick on transition and aggressive defensively 5 on 5 and on the pk as well. Kerfoot fits that description 110%. Hes not a massive asset but he's a good one who could help most teams.

Depending on acquiring cost and salary, I'd have Kerfoot on my team on the 3rd line for sure due to the skills you mentioned above, and because if a player in the top 6 does get injured, I know he can somewhat fill in. I think 3M is max he should be making and thats a little high as any 3rd liner making 3M+ tends to be better offensively or bring more grit to the team.

On this current Canucks roster however, Kerfoot is something we have plenty of. Skilled or defensively solid players that are better suited on the 3rd line. We have Hoglander/Podkolzin/Pearson/Dickinson. If Kerfoot was 18-24, we'd have more interest as he fits our core's age group and our window in 2 years and there may be room for some hidden upside. Given that he'll be 29 by the time the Canucks are looking to be a contender, he'll be on the downswing.

These are reasons why why he holds 0 value to the Canucks specifically. If Mrzaek was signed for only 1 more year we'd say hey if it helps you guys, give us Mrzaek instead and increase the pick/prospect value instead.

To better illustrate how myself and other Canucks fans feel, we'd much prefer 2022 1st + 2022 2nd + 2022 3rd + knies + total cap dump(s) making 5M until end of next season over 2022 1st + knies + kerfoot + dermott

 

[habsfan44]

Nice chatting with you and I genuinely hope habs land 1st overall this year, its nice when both teams are competitive and have young stars. Makes the rivalry much more fun.

Thanks for that , the feeling is mutual .

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Depending on acquiring cost and salary, I'd have Kerfoot on my team on the 3rd line for sure due to the skills you mentioned above, and because if a player in the top 6 does get injured, I know he can somewhat fill in. I think 3M is max he should be making and thats a little high as any 3rd liner making 3M+ tends to be better offensively or bring more grit to the team.

On this current Canucks roster however, Kerfoot is something we have plenty of. Skilled or defensively solid players that are better suited on the 3rd line. We have Hoglander/Podkolzin/Pearson/Dickinson. If Kerfoot was 18-24, we'd have more interest as he fits our core's age group and our window in 2 years and there may be room for some hidden upside. Given that he'll be 29 by the time the Canucks are looking to be a contender, he'll be on the downswing.

These are reasons why why he holds 0 value to the Canucks specifically. If Mrzaek was signed for only 1 more year we'd say hey if it helps you guys, give us Mrzaek instead and increase the pick/prospect value instead.

I get what your saying and if it were my team moving Miller I could see myself following a similar train of thought. I just wanted to state that he has value and could be useful to most teams and we are only trading him for cap reasons. I'd much rather trade Engvall Mikeheyev, Holl, dermott etc but none have the cap hits to offset Millers cap even at 50%. I also agree that Miller is a star player but with only two seasons left, any team that gives up that haul loses the deal unless they win the cup in 1 of those 2 years. Its a huge gamble.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I understand what your trying to say, and sure on the Canucks even without Miller there are wingers the Canucks would rather use in their top 6, but its not just offense that kerfoot can provide, its a 200 foot game. My point is that he has value even to the canucks playing a 3rd line role. Why do you think your Gm wants to get faster, because he wants the team to be quick on transition and aggressive defensively 5 on 5 and on the pk as well. Kerfoot fits that description 110%. Hes not a massive asset but he's a good one who could help most teams.

Shhh he’s a leaf which means it’s one of two categories, good but overpaid or trash being propped up by said overpaid players. It’s actually quite silly

 

[Canuck Luck]

I get what your saying and if it were my team moving Miller I could see myself following a similar train of thought. I just wanted to state that he has value and could be useful to most teams and we are only trading him for cap reasons. I'd much rather trade Engvall Mikeheyev, Holl, dermott etc but none have the cap hits to offset Millers cap even at 50%. I also agree that Miller is a star player but with only two seasons left, any team that gives up that haul loses the deal unless they win the cup in 1 of those 2 years. Its a huge gamble.

Ya i get that. If i were a playoff team needing to upgrade my 3rd line, i'd probably pay a 3rd for Kerfoot if I could send back similar salary. Its just to the Canucks he has 0 value and once he starts playing for the Canucks, his stats will drop hurting his value further.

The Leafs probably aren't a good fit now that they've moved off Ritchie. Only way I could see a deal being done is something like 2022 1st + 2023 1st + Robertson/Knies/Amirov + any cap dump making 3M or less that ends by end of next year for Miller at 50%. Something along those lines. Theres no roster player whom the Leafs would part with that will also have value to the Canucks. So the salary coming back would have to be players the Leafs also see as cap dumps (like Ritchie).

The Leafs did open up some cap space by trading 1 player for 2. I'd imagine around 500k since 1.325 cap hit from Ritchie being buried +1.5M minimum for the 2 roster spots - 2.4M of the 2 players that now occupy the 2 roster spots = 425k cap space created.

So if the Canucks hold 50% Leafs would need to dump about 2M in salary

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Ya i get that. If i were a playoff team needing to upgrade my 3rd line, i'd probably pay a 3rd for Kerfoot if I could send back similar salary. Its just to the Canucks he has 0 value and once he starts playing for the Canucks, his stats will drop hurting his value further.

The Leafs probably aren't a good fit now that they've moved off Ritchie. Only way I could see a deal being done is something like 2022 1st + 2023 1st + Robertson/Knies/Amirov + any cap dump making 3M or less that ends by end of next year for Miller at 50%. Something along those lines. Theres no roster player whom the Leafs would part with that will also have value to the Canucks. So the salary coming back would have to be players the Leafs also see as cap dumps (like Ritchie).

Yeah Ritchie is the only dump we have, everyone else makes a fair dollar amount and plays their role fairly well. Maybe Mrazek but he hasn't played enough to determine that yet and there is league interest still at his cap hit.

 

[Hodge]

Shhh he’s a leaf which means it’s one of two categories, good but overpaid or trash being propped up by said overpaid players. It’s actually quite silly

Nah. If the Leafs were throwing Mikheyev or Engvall into this deal that would be fine since those are players on expiring deals that the Canucks legitimately could flip for more assets or take a run at re-signing. Kerfoot on his contract has no value to Vancouver.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Nah. If the Leafs were throwing Mikheyev or Engvall into this deal that would be fine since those are players on expiring deals that the Canucks legitimately could flip for more assets or take a run at re-signing. Kerfoot on his contract has no value to Vancouver.

This is such nonsense. Kerfoot has twice the value to a team either of those guys have. Not to mention Kerfoot atready has a contract for next year. What even is this?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Yeah Ritchie is the only dump we have, everyone else makes a fair dollar amount and plays their role fairly well. Maybe Mrazek but he hasn't played enough to determine that yet and there is league interest still at his cap hit.

Mrazek won’t be hard to move if need be. He definitely wasn’t the first ufa goalie signed because only Dubas wanted him.

 

[CatchyTune]

only on HF are unproven young players/picks worth more than actual proven commodity

JT miller is a top line winger who can play C and win fsceoffs. He hits, he plays hard in all 3 zones and is clutch. Hes signed at a discount and u get him for TWO years... lol guys like Tatar returns a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder... Jt. Miller brings way more to your team.

Jt. Miller will return a A-tier bluechip prospect and a mid to late first and possibly a lesser youngish 22-25 player with potential.
Ya'll will see

Most leafs fans in this thread are delusional.

Of course the Leafs fans are the ones being called delusional still even after Canucks fans were calling Miller more valuable than Eichel and asking for 4 1sts

 

[Ita]

only on HF are unproven young players/picks worth more than actual proven commodity

JT miller is a top line winger who can play C and win fsceoffs. He hits, he plays hard in all 3 zones and is clutch. Hes signed at a discount and u get him for TWO years... lol guys like Tatar returns a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder... Jt. Miller brings way more to your team.

Jt. Miller will return a A-tier bluechip prospect and a mid to late first and possibly a lesser youngish 22-25 player with potential.
Ya'll will see

Most leafs fans in this thread are delusional.

Tatar was then included in the package for Pacioretty.

The total package for Pacioretty was Second-round draft pick, Tomas Tatar, and Nick Suzuki.

So Pacioretty basically returned a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder (the price paid for Tatar), 1 more 2nd, and an elite prospect is Nick Suzuki.

I would argue that Miller is more valuable now than when Pacioretty was traded.

Now some Leafs' fans are claiming the original proposal, with a far worse package, is somehow fleecing the Leafs.

Are people just being willfully ignorant on the costs of acquiring a good player?

 

[Hodge]

This is such nonsense. Kerfoot has twice the value to a team either of those guys have. Not to mention Kerfoot atready has a contract for next year. What even is this?

Kerfoot having a contract for next year is what kills his value because the cap hit is too high for what he provides (when not stapled to Tavares and Nylander).

 

[Ita]

Of course the Leafs fans are the ones being called delusional still even after Canucks fans were calling Miller more valuable than Eichel and asking for 4 1sts

Who said Miller was more valuable than Eichel and asked for 4 1sts? Are you just making up stuff now to further your narrative?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Who said Miller was more valuable than Eichel and asked for 4 1sts? Are you just making up stuff now to further your narrative?

Page three maybe page 4.

 

[CatchyTune]

From Toronto its going to cost you at least 2 1st, Knives, and another grade A prospect. and I doubt we take that offer because it doesnt fit any of our needs

1st + kerfoot + knies is okay but there better be another really good + here (1st or good prospect).

Eichel is 10m Per year, coming off major surgery, is a 1 position player.
Yes, JT Miller is worth Eichel, He is actually most likely worth more at 50% Retained.

Who said Miller was more valuable than Eichel and asked for 4 1sts? Are you just making up stuff now to further your narrative?

Them

 

[Canucks LB]

Them

I never asked for 4 1sts
JT miller at 50% retained is worth a top prospect and 2 1st round equivalents imo

That’s my opinion

 

[Hoglander]

I domt believe the Canucks have trade options for Miller because he isn't worth what nucks fans are asking for. Look at the Rangers thread as well, the asks in there are Ludacris. Keep him and resign him, I could care less and I'm sure Rangers fans have said the same. He has 2 playoffs to offer and then he's off to ufa. Hes just not worth the ask.

The ask from some fans is over the top, for sure. But offers like the op are just as bad.

IMO, the framework of a Miller deal, is likely:
Player + pick + prospect.
Miller is a high end player, so a late first and a high end prospect is practically a given. The contract coming back, is the biggest question mark. I think kerfoot would be acceptable here, but not if the leafs expect it to lessen the value of the rest of the package.

 

[CatchyTune]

I never asked for 4 1sts
JT miller at 50% retained is worth a top prospect and 2 1st round equivalents imo

That’s my opinion

I actually dont think you are far off with that I just dont think it will be 3. Say 2022 1st, Robertson/Amirov and a 2nd or equivalent prospect

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

The ask from some fans is over the top, for sure. But offers like the op are just as bad.

IMO, the framework of a Miller deal, is likely:
Player + pick + prospect.
Miller is a high end player, so a late first and a high end prospect is practically a given. The contract coming back, is the biggest question mark. I think kerfoot would be acceptable here, but not if the leafs expect it to lessen the value of the rest of the package.

This right here is 100% reasonable. I agree with everything you said in this post.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

For me it would be a 2022 1st Robertson/Amirov 2023 2nd, turns into 2023 first if leafs make the cup finals in either year plus cap going the other way to make things fit.

 

[CatchyTune]

For me it would be a 2022 1st Robertson/Amirov 2023 2nd, turns into 2023 first if leafs make the cup finals in either year plus cap going the other way to make things fit.

Thats exactly what I feel as well. The people throwing a hissy fit over Kerfoot being in the deal dont get he’s just $$$

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Thats exactly what I feel as well. The people throwing a hissy fit over Kerfoot being in the deal dont get he’s just $$$

I think its fair for both sides as well.

 

[Drew311]

Knies is not the Leafs top prospect. Christ there are 3 other Leaf prospect rated ahead ahead of him.
1- Rated 20th-Robertson
2- Rated 21th-Anirov
3- Rated 29th-Niemela
4- Rated 54th Knies.
Funny how since his name was mentioned in a trade offer he is now being mentioned as being the Leafs top prospect.

All of those prospects are in the same tier. Christ you’re comparing oranges to oranges. Christ!

 

[seanlinden]

This the basis of a trade between the two teams I’ve been pitching for a while and one that makes sense, maybe sun liljegren for Niemela as liljegren is contributing now

Don't think the Leafs are trading Niemla or Knies right now. It certainly appears that the Leafs have hit home-runs with these 2 picks.

Liljegren is contributing, but he's a guy that's probably on the outside looking in right now, and needs to play at the NHL level to continue developing. That being said, I certainly believe Robertson or Amriov would be offered up before Liljegren because he's an NHL defenceman that's waiver-exempt.