Value of: J.T. Miller (LW/C/RW)

[Habs Halifax]

how many faceoffs does he actually take? i dont watch the nucks but %55 is pretty solid and the wild could use that.

Horvat has 414 faceoffs in 17 games so far. Miller has 209 to compare usage. And 130 of them was in the defensive zone.

 

[iFan]

Honestly, I have no interest in Newhook, he’s a good young player but we have many already like that. Canucks need to fix the right side in the top 4. Enough is enough we need to get Hughes a partner for the long term. If we’re moving Horvat and/or Miller it needs to fill that hole.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Horvat has 414 faceoffs in 17 games so far. Miller has 209 to compare usage. And 130 of them was in the defensive zone.

Thanks. im not sure we can really go after him considering his contract length and possible wants after this contract. but he seems to fit the bill of our need.

 

[nightonthesun]

If JT Miller is available there will be a lot of playoff teams wanting him. It’s not often you can get a player that can do it all, great in the face offs, good defensively, brings grit, size, energy and is on a bargain contract.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I don't think it matters. I can't imagine any GM, especially if they run a playoff team that they want to keep competitive, is going to part with any prospect that projects to be a top pair RHD unless the return is unreal. Miller rocks, but because of the reasons I listed earlier, he doesn't move the needle enough for what most in this thread are searching for. That's just my sense of it though. Maybe the right deal is out there. Sounds like it ain't gonna be Barron+.

 

[Boondock]

Tend to agree that Jost and Barron aren’t enough and I say that as an Avs fan. Add a 3rd.

At 50% retained - a 3rd isn't enough. Clearly a 3rd line C/W and potentially a middle pairing Dman for a PPG forward that plays all positions, in all situations, signed through next season ad a $2.6 cap hit. That would require pieces that hurt to move.

 

[nightonthesun]

At 50% retained - a 3rd isn't enough. Clearly a 3rd line C/W and potentially a middle pairing Dman for a PPG forward that plays all positions, in all situations, signed through next season ad a $2.6 cap hit. That would require pieces that hurt to move.

I personally wouldn't take Barron+jost+3rd for Miller either, but I'm curious about what you'd replace that pick with to hit a sweet spot, if possible.

 

[flyfysher]

At 50% retained - a 3rd isn't enough. Clearly a 3rd line C/W and potentially a middle pairing Dman for a PPG forward that plays all positions, in all situations, signed through next season ad a $2.6 cap hit. That would require pieces that hurt to move.

Avs draft picks are pretty slim. They don't have a 2nd. So it's a 1st in 2023 IIRC (and I don't follow that closely) or nothing. A 1st is an overpayment with Jost who's a starter and Barron as a middle pairing prospect. I had originally proposed Barron, the 1st, and Compher for Miller and a 3rd. So I'm thinking if you want Jost, Barron and the 1st then I would still want a 3rd back.

 

[belair]

If Benning does move him, I'm gonna guess he ends up in Minnesota.

Greenway, Addison and a pick.

 

[nammerus]

Stone didn't have an extension in place yet, so Vegas had to take a gamble that they could sign him to a fair extension.

Stone is a great two-way player, but he has only surpassed 70 points once and is always in injury troubles. He also only has 50 points in 73 playoff games which is not really that impressive.

Brannstrom was one of the best NHL defensive prospects at the time and probably a top 10 prospect at that point he was traded. He hasn't progressed as projected, but if Brannstrom was a playing like he was touted as (top pairing defenseman), then you wouldn't be making the same gamble.

Ottawa took a gamble with Brannstrom and it obviously hasn't paid off yet.

Not a close comparison at all. I'll take a top D prospect and a 2nd round pick for JT Miller anytime of the day.

Why would you make stuff up about Branstrom? Please show me a list where Branstrom was a top 10 prospect at that time. He’s 41st on the Athletics list for 2019. Behind the illustrious Cam York.

And Vegas had the contract all setup before the trade. It was signed the minute the paperwork went through. They knew they were getting him for 8 years.

So please do some research before you spout bullshit.

 

[Boondock]

I personally wouldn't take Barron+jost+3rd for Miller either, but I'm curious about what you'd replace that pick with to hit a sweet spot, if possible.

If I was moving out Miller, Jost would not be on my wish list as a piece back. 3rd line C/W are not the most difficult pieces to find. We traded a 3rd rounder for Dickinson who has a very similar impact on the game. Barron is definitely an interesting piece, I like his potential but in exchange for a player like Miller (@50%) he would be the +. I don't really know what else the Avs would be willing to move, but no to Compher, no to Logan O'Connor - with the 1st being 2023 that could be an issue as the Canucks are claiming to be wanting to compete now. Unless the Avs are willing to move Newhook I don't see a deal that makes sense for a retained Miller.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Why would you make stuff up about Branstrom? Please show me a list where Branstrom was a top 10 prospect at that time. He’s 41st on the Athletics list for 2019. Behind the illustrious Cam York.

And Vegas had the contract all setup before the trade. It was signed the minute the paperwork went through. They knew they were getting him for 8 years.

So please do some research before you spout bullshit.

Contract was not signed the minute the trade went through. They had an agreement in place but it was not set in stone. Agreements "in principle" don't mean anything in sports business - things change all the time. So you can calm down there buddy.

The Vegas Golden Knights have signed Mark Stone to an eight-year contract extension worth an AAV of $9.5 million, the team announced Friday, keeping the skilled forward in Vegas through the 2026-27 season.
Stone was acquired in a deadline-day deal with the Ottawa Senators on Feb. 25, where the Golden Knights traded forward Oscar Lindberg, prospect defenseman Erik Brannstrom and a 2020 second-round pick. Stone agreed in principle to the extension once the deal was finalized, but could not sign it until March 1 due to a clause in the collective bargaining agreement.

So you used one list to try to make a point? Prospect rankings are almost entirely subjective. The point is that Brannstrom was widely regarded as an A tier prospect throughout the NHL. Brannstrom had 28 points in 41 games as a teenager in the AHL. Brannstrom was ranked 24th and 21st on these respective lists.

2019 Top NHL Prospects: 40 – 21 - Last Word On Hockey
NHL prospect rankings: Top 50 players in NHL pipelines for 2019-20

The point is that Brannstrom was a highly regarded top prospect that projected to be a top pairing defenseman. The fact that the Mark Stone trade looks like a massive robbery just adds to the credence that JT Miller is worth a lot. Prospects rarely pan out to their potential.

 

[BCNate]

If the Canucks were to retain 50% on Miller, his return would be significant. For a contender to add a versatile PPG forward for 2.6 mil for the next two seasons, there chances of getting over the top improve considerably.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Wishful thinking but if someone like Dobson was available for Miller , Id jump all over that immediately.

 

[nammerus]

Contract was not signed the minute the trade went through. They had an agreement in place but it was not set in stone. Agreements "in principle" don't mean anything in sports business - things change all the time. So you can calm down there buddy.

The Vegas Golden Knights have signed Mark Stone to an eight-year contract extension worth an AAV of $9.5 million, the team announced Friday, keeping the skilled forward in Vegas through the 2026-27 season.
Stone was acquired in a deadline-day deal with the Ottawa Senators on Feb. 25, where the Golden Knights traded forward Oscar Lindberg, prospect defenseman Erik Brannstrom and a 2020 second-round pick. Stone agreed in principle to the extension once the deal was finalized, but could not sign it until March 1 due to a clause in the collective bargaining agreement.

So you used one list to try to make a point? Prospect rankings are almost entirely subjective. The point is that Brannstrom was widely regarded as an A tier prospect throughout the NHL. Brannstrom had 28 points in 41 games as a teenager in the AHL. Brannstrom was ranked 24th and 21st on these respective lists.

2019 Top NHL Prospects: 40 – 21 - Last Word On Hockey
NHL prospect rankings: Top 50 players in NHL pipelines for 2019-20

The point is that Brannstrom was a highly regarded top prospect that projected to be a top pairing defenseman. The fact that the Mark Stone trade looks like a massive robbery just adds to the credence that JT Miller is worth a lot. Prospects rarely pan out to their potential.

I’m confused. Which one of those list shows Brannstrom was a top 10 prospect? Or even remotely close to being one?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If I am the Canucks, I am looking for a 3 asset package.... something like a first round pick, young roster player, and a very good prospect (Top 50 in NHL?).

JT Miller would likely be the best forward available at the deadline. His versatility is off the charts... he can play any position at a high-level and play in all situations (PP, PK, defending the lead, etc.). He's signed for another year so you would get two playoff runs from JT Miller.

Canucks could retain half if they are committed to a proper rebuild.

Tomas Hertl makes that statement not true.


No team is giving up that package for a player with only 1 year left on his deal either.


It'll be something like a 1st + Either a Young Roster player or a Top prospect, but not both.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I’m confused. Which one of those list shows Brannstrom was a top 10 prospect? Or even remotely close to being one?

Being ranked 21st and 24th on two separate lists don't mean anything to you?

Having one of the most productive 18 year old seasons in the SHL don't mean anything to you? 18-Year Old SHL Defensemen - Regular Season Stats

Or what about one of the most productive 19 year old seasons in the AHL? 19-Year Old AHL Defensemen - Regular Season Stats

Stop it man... just stop it. If you actually followed hockey, you would know that Brannstrom was considered a top tier blue chip prospect when he was traded for Stone.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Tomas Hertl makes that statement not true.


No team is giving up that package for a player with only 1 year left on his deal either.


It'll be something like a 1st + Either a Young Roster player or a Top prospect, but not both.

Why would San Jose trade Hertl? He's only 27 and they can't blow it up.

If they get solid goaltending, they can still be a playoff team. The only way they would trade Hertl is if they blow the team up... he's probably their most important player on the team.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Tomas Hertl makes that statement not true.


No team is giving up that package for a player with only 1 year left on his deal either.


It'll be something like a 1st + Either a Young Roster player or a Top prospect, but not both.

If you trade for JT Miller now, you're getting potentially 140 regular season games and maybe 20+ playoff games depending how far the contender will go.

A contender that is looking to add a top line piece will absolutely pay that price. A late first and a young roster with some potential and a relatively top prospect (Top 50-70 NHL) is not a massive haul for someone like JT Miller.

Darcy Kuemper (a goalie who had one good year with a starter workload of 55 games) got a first round pick, Connor Timmins and a conditional 3rd round pick. Darcy also only had one year left on his deal. Miller can absolutely get a similar package if not better.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I personally wouldn't take Barron+jost+3rd for Miller either, but I'm curious about what you'd replace that pick with to hit a sweet spot, if possible.

Sorry but does Tyson Jost have any tangible value right now??

5th year in the league and he has never scored more than 26 points or 12 goals in a season, despite averaging solid ice time ranging from 13-14 minutes a game.

2 points in 13 games while averaging 16 minutes a game to start the year. Tyson Jost would just be the new Jake Virtanen for us... an underachieving top pick that we wouldn't know what to do with.

Newhook is a different story.

 

[nightonthesun]

Sorry but does Tyson Jost have any tangible value right now??

"If you actually followed hockey," to use your own words, would you dump on Jost without knowing anything about the role he fills or his true value to the team? He plays an effective two way game and is no way the complete and utter waste of a pick that was Virtanen. Losing jost wouldn't be easy for the Avs. That doesn't mean he has value to the Nucks, though, who need scorers. I do get that.

 

[Johnsie19]

What about Newhook + Barron + choose your short term cap dump to make it work?

 

[Eggtimer]

I can see a couple of teams very interested in Miller . Colorado ( window is open now , Sakic will add someone to make a run at the Cup)
Boston perhaps , if they think Miller could be their 2c .

 

[Canadian Canuck]

We need a RHD. Only target if Miller is traded. Carlo, Dobson, or someone of that value.

 

[Johnsie19]

We need a RHD. Only target if Miller is traded. Carlo, Dobson, or someone of that value.

It is what we need but I doubt we will be able to get anyone of that high caliber. The trade likely is gonna be for prospects, picks.

 

[Ghetty Green]

if he stays in the top group of the scoring race, I cannot see why he cant fetch a Pulock, Parayko or Weegar. Thats the value, they are not on the market though, Pelech is what canucks really need, if only he shoots right.