Value of: J.T. Miller (LW/C/RW)

[sandwichbird2023]

If you don't want to cough up a young top 4 D with top pairing potential, or a young top 6 forward with 1st line potential for Miller, he's not coming your way.

I don't think most people realise how good this player is. Not going to be sold off for quantity.

He pks, he plays top unit PP. He wins faceoffs. He's solid defensively. He's tough. He scores at a ppg+ rate. You can put him with literally anyone and he'll produce.

On top of all that, Miller has a very team-friendly contract, and the acquiring team will have 2 playoff runs with him. He is not a pure rental and I feel like most of these offers are equivalent to a rental player.
I feel like what should be the template for a trade is a 1st + a bluechip prospect, or a 1st + a young skater with potential to be a top 6F or top 4D.
But with Benning what is most likely to happen is Miller walk in UFA after we flame out the next 2 seasons as a bottom 5 team.

 

[Boondock]

If the Devils can find a way to get a more defensive minded dman like Montour from Anaheim or Miller from Buffalo, I wouldn't mind if we utilized Damon Severson as a trade chip for JT Miler.

We would be a way better team if we added a more defensive minded dman on our blueline and JT Miller to pair alongside Jack.

Severson would need to be the + in a Miller deal - that would be worse than the Larsson for Hall deal

 

[Cogburn]

I would argue he’s a two-way defenseman who likely would be on the Avs if it weren’t for the incredible depth. Just because he’s skilled doesn’t mean he solely an offensive player. I think you’re under rating Barron as a prospect.

As for Jost, I think his value would be a lot closer to a second. We’re not talking about a 31 year old 25 point pending UFA. Jost is a 25-30 point center, who plays great defensively and is 23 years old. He could easily be the Canucks third line center for the next 5+ seasons. He played some of his best hockey down the stretch last season and I think in the right system he could float around 35 points per season.

Even if all that is taken as gospel, Barron and a second round pick doesn't get you Miller at half retained.

That last phrase isn't helping the cause either, as there is no discernable system in Vancouver, which is why so many players are underperforming.

So again, it's an easy pass, thank you for replying with your justification though.

 

[RD616]

Kerfoot + Holl + 1st

For

Miller @50% + Schenn

 

[flyfysher]

On top of all that, Miller has a very team-friendly contract, and the acquiring team will have 2 playoff runs with him. He is not a pure rental and I feel like most of these offers are equivalent to a rental player.
I feel like what should be the template for a trade is a 1st + a bluechip prospect, or a 1st + a young skater with potential to be a top 6F or top 4D.
But with Benning what is most likely to happen is Miller walk in UFA after we flame out the next 2 seasons as a bottom 5 team.

That's funny because I recall in the Boeser thread specifically inquiring about JT Miller. I offered one of Barron (1st round, #25)/Helleson (2nd round, #47) and I think the Avs 2023 1st + Compher and asked for JT Miller with retention and a third back. My offer got quickly shot down.

Barron and Helleson are almost ready for prime time but not really this season. Maybe a late season call up. I think both have middle pairing potential. From what I have read, Barron is the more all around D type of guy with good offensive skills and Helleson is more defensively oriented with a good outlet pass.

OTOH, I have read where Canucks fans want Dobson from the Isles. That Canuck interest is more reflective to me where the Canucks fans heads are at in the sense that they don't really view themselves as non-contenders this season. So I think that's the real sticking point. It's not as though the Canucks are going to get top 4D without having incredible luck or shrewd trade deals like the Avs did with Makar (after suffering a brutal regular season record), Byram and Toews or having to overpay for them during the season or develop them internally.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Kerfoot + Holl + 1st

For

Miller @50% + Schenn

Gross.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Kerfoot + Holl + 1st

For

Miller @50% + Schenn

There’s like zero chance we eat salary with that type of return (3rd line centre, bottom pairing D and late first). Pass!

You can have Pearson for holl/kerfoot

 

[Cogburn]

Kerfoot + Holl + 1st

For

Miller @50% + Schenn

You're trolling, yes?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I would pay a BIG BIG price for JT Miller especially at this deadline.

You'd have to make the money work but

Miller Matthews Marner

Or Miller Tavares Nylandrt would be unstoppable.

Either combination is deadly

 

[elitepete]

But Schneider plus 1st for 50% retained?

Schneider and a 1st for Miller without retention would be a slight overpayment, but if we are retaining 50%, it's a slight underpayment. Either lower the retention or throw in a 3rd or something.

Love to get him back in TAMPA and use the cap space from cernak and kuch on ltir. Abb to open up a spot 850k salary+1st+ b prospect ?

If it's only a b prospect, we would probably need a 2nd/3rd round pick in addition. Depends on the prospect really..

If the Devils can find a way to get a more defensive minded dman like Montour from Anaheim or Miller from Buffalo, I wouldn't mind if we utilized Damon Severson as a trade chip for JT Miler.

We would be a way better team if we added a more defensive minded dman on our blueline and JT Miller to pair alongside Jack.

Isn't Severson an offensive d man? Canucks likely have no interest in a deal around him.

Jost+J. Barron for Miller 50%? Jost used to play on the same line as Boeser so he should fit in chemistry wise and Barron is a budding RHD prospect.

This is not enough.

I'd think the Bruins would be interested, but not sure what they have of interest to offer.
I'm sure Lysell and Lohrei would be off the table.

As far as forwards, young guys Studnicka, Steen, Lauko. Vets Craig Smith, DeBrusk

D - don't think they would include Grezlcyk but I would be ok with it. No to Carlo. So that leaves unexciting pieces like Reilly, Clifton; Zboril has potential. Young guys Brady Lyle, Urho V, Ahchan is a PMD but small

Draft picks would be on the table

1st + rhd prospect. Zero interest in players like Reilly, CLifton, ZBoril, Smith.

Kerfoot + Holl + 1st

For

Miller @50% + Schenn

Hard to put into words just how terrible this offer is. Change Kerfoot to Robertson and Holl to a 2nd.

I would pay a BIG BIG price for JT Miller especially at this deadline.

You'd have to make the money work but

Miller Matthews Marner

Or Miller Tavares Nylandrt would be unstoppable.

Either combination is deadly

Make an offer.

 

[flyfysher]

Schneider and a 1st for Miller without retention would be a slight overpayment, but if we are retaining 50%, it's a slight underpayment. Either lower the retention or throw in a 3rd or something.

If it's only a b prospect, we would probably need a 2nd/3rd round pick in addition. Depends on the prospect really..

Isn't Severson an offensive d man? Canucks likely have no interest in a deal around him.

This is not enough.

1st + rhd prospect. Zero interest in players like Reilly, CLifton, ZBoril, Smith.

Hard to put into words just how terrible this offer is. Change Kerfoot to Robertson and Holl to a 2nd.


Make an offer.

Tend to agree that Jost and Barron aren’t enough and I say that as an Avs fan. Add a 3rd.

 

[Petey O]

Kerfoot + Holl + 1st

For

Miller @50% + Schenn

Yeah, listen. People making offers like this have no idea how good Miller is. If you aren't prepared to offer quality, he's not coming your way.

2 years of team control on a sweetheart deal. Retained, he can bring literally the best value in the league to your team. The best value in the league. For two playoff runs. And he is a proven playoff performer.

I really don't know what else to say.

Start treating this asset for what it is and make some real offers.

Give up an individual piece that actually stings.

 

[elitepete]

Tend to agree that Jost and Barron aren’t enough and I say that as an Avs fan. Add a 3rd.

Still not enough, especially if we are retaining 50%.

Miller 50% retained for Barron+1st+3rd/4th

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Yeah, listen. People making offers like this have no idea how good Miller is. If you aren't prepared to offer quality, he's not coming your way.

2 years of team control on a sweetheart deal. Retained, he can bring literally the best value in the league to your team. The best value in the league. For two playoff runs. And he is a proven playoff performer.

I really don't know what else to say.

Start treating this asset for what it is and make some real offers.

Give up an individual piece that actually stings.

People aren't forgetting the Benning Factor.

 

[Petey O]

Still not enough, especially if we are retaining 50%.

Miller 50% retained for Barron+1st+3rd/4th

A decent prospect, a late 1st, and a late 3rd or 4th? That's not even close to enough for Miller at 50%.

 

[elitepete]

A decent prospect, a late 1st, and a late 3rd or 4th? That's not even close to enough for Miller at 50%.

Maybe I am overrating Barron but he's the type of player we need.

What do you think Colorado would need to add?

 

[Petey O]

Maybe I am overrating Barron but he's the type of player we need.

What do you think Colorado would need to add?

I agree re: Barron. He'd be a solid piece, but not enough for Miller, even with the picks thrown in.

I'd be looking at something like

Newhook, Barron and that 1st + a conditional 1st if the Avs win the cup within the next 2 seasons, that reverts to a 2nd if they don't.

It has to hurt. There has to be a piece in there that a team winces as it gives it up.

Like, find me a better realistic target, value wise this season than Miller at 50%.

If teams want to be like Tampa, they make a ballsy move like that one and sacrifice good prospects for insanely good value that actually works within their cap.

A guy like Miller would arguably be that extra piece Colorado needs to actually bring them a cup and win over the Tampas, or Vegas', etc.

This guy produces at a 90 point pace and can do everything. And you'd be getting him at an AAV of 2.6 mil. That's insanity.

 

[elitepete]

I agree re: Barron. He'd be a solid piece, but not enough for Miller, even with the picks thrown in.

I'd be looking at something like

Newhook, Barron and that 1st + a conditional 1st if the Avs win the cup within the next 2 seasons, that reverts to a 2nd if they don't.

It has to hurt. There has to be a piece in there that a team winces as it gives it up.

Like, find me a better realistic target, value wise this season than Miller at 50%.

If teams want to be like Tampa, they make a ballsy move like that one and sacrifice good prospects for insanely good value that actually works within their cap.

A guy like Miller would arguably be that extra piece Colorado needs to actually bring them a cup and win over the Tampas, or Vegas', etc.

This guy produces at a 90 point pace and can do everything. And you'd be getting him at an AAV of 2.6 mil. That's insanity.

I don't think that's a fair trade tbh, seems like an overpayment by them. Colorado fans are definitely not going to like it.

 

[TheHelmet]

154 points in 156 Games since joining the canucks,
The model of consistency in a brutal organization
-Most goals in that span
-2nd most assists
-Most hits
-Most Game Winning Goals
-Most even strength points



He may be Vancouver's most attractive asset a part from Hughes
I'd ask for a 1st, a 2nd and like a team 2nd best prospect

 

[AuraSphere]

He can’t fetch the first two you listed. They’re signed longterm at a good AAV whereas Miller only has till next season left on his deal.

No way Florida even considers that swap. Weegar is their 2nd best dman and is rock solid, plus their top 6 is already stacked. They have no need for Miller.

This is why I discredit anything you say, JT Miller > Nylander, but apparently he can't get anyone else ahahaha

 

[The Moose is Loose]

This is why I discredit anything you say, JT Miller > Nylander, but apparently he can't get anyone else ahahaha

Look at Miller’s stats. He plays with worse players but has better numbers since being in Vancouver. He’s the better player.

However his trade value is lower due his contract length, he only has 1.5 years. If he had more term he’d be worth a lot more in a trade. And Weegar (the post I was replying to) is a top pairing guy, he’s worth even more than Miller.

It’s really not that hard to understand.

 

[Johnsie19]

Just a few to spit ball with obv make your little tweaks

Colorado
Newhook + 1st

New Jersey
Severson + 2nd

Toronto
Holl + 1st + 2nd (becomes 1st if they make conf finals)

Rangers
Schneider + 1st

Penguins
Marino + 1st

Washington
McMichael + 2nd

 

[vancityluongo]

Kerfoot + Holl + 1st

For

Miller @50% + Schenn

The inflation adjusted Ryder + Halak + 2nd

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Just a few to spit ball with obv make your little tweaks

Colorado
Newhook + 1st

New Jersey
Severson + 2nd

Toronto
Holl + 1st + 2nd (becomes 1st if they make conf finals)

Rangers
Schneider + 1st

Penguins
Marino + 1st

Washington
McMichael + 2nd

Pass from the Pens, not trading our 1st this year.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Just a few to spit ball with obv make your little tweaks

Colorado
Newhook + 1st

New Jersey
Severson + 2nd

Toronto
Holl + 1st + 2nd (becomes 1st if they make conf finals)

Rangers
Schneider + 1st

Penguins
Marino + 1st

Washington
McMichael + 2nd

That’s not even close to enough from Toronto, Washington, or New Jersey. Not enough from Colorado or NYR either. I’d do the Pens deal