Value of: J.T. Miller (LW/C/RW)

[NYVanfan]

God Miller is severely getting underrated. He’s playing at a 90 point pace and has been our best forward yet again. Not to mention he has another year on his contract after this and is a beast in the playoffs. He can also play all 3 forward positions. Unless we get a #2 RHD back he’s going nowhere

Yeah they need to hang onto him until the TDL. … could be a bidding was amongst contenders …he is very valuable, but canucks can afford to lose him …as mentioned, they aint winning the cup during this deal, and dont wanna pay Wheeler $ for him

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Would do it for Byram

 

[Nylanderthal]

Holl (fill in top 4RHD) + Engvall + 22 1st + Amirov/Knies/Robertson/Niemela + 23 2nd that becomes 1st based on a cup final or Miller extending.
Miller 50% + Schenn

 

[Gstank]

Holl (fill in top 4RHD) + Engvall + 22 1st + Amirov/Knies/Robertson/Niemela + 23 2nd that becomes 1st based on a cup final or Miller extending.
Miller 50% + Schenn

May as well just give us Matthews for Miller

 

[Nylanderthal]

May as well just give us Matthews for Miller

I hate being accused of undervaluing other players and being a typical leaf fan offering quarters for a dollar bill. Maybe it’s a piece too many. I also considered the fact it’s Miller for 2 years at 2.6.
Just to be clear I don’t mean all 4 prospects I put /in to represent choices the + are different assets. Maybe no conditional first? I just see people suggesting prospects like Byram and wahlstrom here and in other threads and wanted to be reasonable considering the leafs 4 guys don’t have nearly the hype those guys do (rightfully so) and factored in that leafs first is probably 25 or higher.

 

[Scorvat]

May as well just give us Matthews for Miller

This is a very solid proposal even if it's quantity over quality. I'd understand wanting something better but for value it pretty much matches want Miller might get

 

[Scorvat]

Holl (fill in top 4RHD) + Engvall + 22 1st + Amirov/Knies/Robertson/Niemela + 23 2nd that becomes 1st based on a cup final or Miller extending.
Miller 50% + Schenn

I think when the Canucks start to trade the group of Miller/Boeser/Horvat they will be looking at getting a bluechip blueliner back. So I guess that means one of Sandin or even a guy like Liljergen as one of the pieces.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I think when the Canucks start to trade the group of Miller/Boeser/Horvat they will be looking at getting a bluechip blueliner back. So I guess that means one of Sandin or even a guy like Liljergen as one of the pieces.

Leafs wouldn’t be able to move either of them unless the deal seriously favoured Toronto. They’re already as a pairing looking very solid and will continue to push up the line up potentially together. Topi Niemela isn’t a well hyped name, but he’s currently ppg in Liiga as a 19 year old, and while slight in stature is 6’ so there’s a frame to fill out.
The key here is to subtract as little from the existing lineup.

 

[Cogburn]

Holl (fill in top 4RHD) + Engvall + 22 1st + Amirov/Knies/Robertson/Niemela + 23 2nd that becomes 1st based on a cup final or Miller extending.
Miller 50% + Schenn

Are you trying to undersell me in the other thread?

Jokes, if he has to get traded, it's a solid offer.

 

[Scorvat]

Leafs wouldn’t be able to move either of them unless the deal seriously favoured Toronto. They’re already as a pairing looking very solid and will continue to push up the line up potentially together. Topi Niemela isn’t a well hyped name, but he’s currently ppg in Liiga as a 19 year old, and while slight in stature is 6’ so there’s a frame to fill out.
The key here is to subtract as little from the existing lineup.

Yeah makes sense

The Leafs will always be a difficult trading partner because of the cap situation, but I think Miller will look very good on that team

You're initial offer was pretty good and might be the best Miller might get, though I would think he would be one of the more valuable pieces available

 

[Nylanderthal]

Yeah makes sense

The Leafs will always be difficult trading partner because of the cap situation, but I think Miller will look very good on that team

You're initial offer was pretty good and might be the best Miller might get, though I would think he would be one of the more valuable pieces available

Gotta pay to play, especially when considering it’s a quantity deal.
The top 4 prospects Toronto has not playing in the nhl aren’t “blue chippers” by any means but I’m pretty sure most reasonable leaf fans see them as guys who should be NHL players in the next couple seasons, and either contribute in the line up or as assets to bring in the missing pieces.
I mean obviously if a real top end prospect shakes free then things change, but we don’t see that all the time, hfb users expectations be damned. It’s not often teams move a byram wahlstrom type. Heck even eichel was moved (yeah yeah I know) and the return was decent roster player decent prospect and a 1st.
A 1st + a former 1st or 2nd round prospect + a 2nd that can be a first is pretty good value imo. Especially when the cap ballast going back aren’t complete deadweight either, and probably offer more residual value in other deals. (Neither holl or Engvall are waiver fodder)

 

[Scorvat]

Gotta pay to play, especially when considering it’s a quantity deal.
The top 4 prospects Toronto has not playing in the nhl aren’t “blue chippers” by any means but I’m pretty sure most reasonable leaf fans see them as guys who should be NHL players in the next couple seasons, and either contribute in the line up or as assets to bring in the missing pieces.
I mean obviously if a real top end prospect shakes free then things change, but we don’t see that all the time, hfb users expectations be damned. It’s not often teams move a byram wahlstrom type. Heck even eichel was moved (yeah yeah I know) and the return was decent roster player decent prospect and a 1st.
A 1st + a former 1st or 2nd round prospect + a 2nd that can be a first is pretty good value imo. Especially when the cap ballast going back aren’t complete deadweight either, and probably offer more residual value in other deals. (Neither holl or Engvall are waiver fodder)

Agreed. The more I look at your offer the more I think it might be an overpayment. Holl could be a potential partner for Hughes since the Poolman experiment is not working or he could be traded for a pick as well

But I would want to see other teams offers. Bruins, Devils, Kings along with the other contenders might all want Miller

 

[Nylanderthal]

Agreed. The more I look at your offer the more I think it might be an overpayment. Holl could be a potential partner for Hughes since the Poolman experiment is not working or he could be traded for a pick as well

But I would want to see other teams offers. Bruins, Devils, Kings along with the other contenders might all want Miller

@Cogburn had similar sentiments, maybe remove the conditional first and just call it a 2nd? Or downgrade the prospect from one of our better 4 to one or two of the lessor ones? Again I don’t want to go down the road of here’s my trash I’ll take your best asset either and get mocked for being a typical leaf fan. Point is I think there’s a deal Toronto can make and appease both sides
I live in Van and I think Holl is better than he’s shown this year, and I think he’d be a good fit with Quinn or could go for 2/3 rounder Engvall probably a 5th.

 

[Cogburn]

@Cogburn had similar sentiments, maybe remove the conditional first and just call it a 2nd? Or downgrade the prospect from one of our better 4 to one or two of the lessor ones? Again I don’t want to go down the road here’s my trash I’ll take your best asset either. Point is I think there’s a deal Toronto can make and appease both sides

It's tough, because most of our fans want a single, shiny, equally valued prospect/younger player back which isn't likely. As bad as our team is, Miller's still scoring and hitting and winning faceoffs though, so I guess I get it. If we can upgrade Steeves to Knies, I don't know if that is a huge, huge upgrade, then I am happy. The conditions of Miller resigning or Toronto making the cup finals might be solid odds, so I don't know if that's going to affect value a ton from our side. Is Engvall still useful for Toronto though? More so than Ritchie (who we had discussed and I dismissed based on this years performance)? I know Knies and Steeves were explained as tier A and B respectively, but what's the value different between them on your side?

 

[The Kingslayer]

Would do it for Byram

lol

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's tough, because most of our fans want a single, shiny, equally valued prospect/younger player back which isn't likely. As bad as our team is, Miller's still scoring and hitting and winning faceoffs though, so I guess I get it. If we can upgrade Steeves to Knies, I don't know if that is a huge, huge upgrade, then I am happy. The conditions of Miller resigning or Toronto making the cup finals might be solid odds, so I don't know if that's going to affect value a ton from our side. Is Engvall still useful for Toronto though? More so than Ritchie (who we had discussed and I dismissed based on this years performance)? I know Knies and Steeves were explained as tier A and B respectively, but what's the value different between them on your side?

I value the tier A guys quite a bit higher than B, A I pretty much have all similarity rated they should all be middle 6F/ bottom 4D. I don’t see any sure fire top liners tho. Second group has guys I like more than others. I’d say if you wanted one from each but swapped Ritchie & Engvall which saves us money this year for further roster additions/flexibility and clears the room next year. I’d be way less into that second 1st, heck even a 2nd with that change is tough to swallow when I look at it laid out.
Ritchie + Holl + Tier 1 (Knies) + Tier 2 (Steeves/Kral/Rubins) + 22 1st
Miller 50% + Schenn
Maybe a conditional 23 3rd that coverts to a swap of Toronto’s 1st for Vancouver’s 2nd based on a cup win/extension.

 

[Cogburn]

I value the tier A guys quite a bit higher than B, A I pretty much have all similarity rated they should all be middle 6F/ bottom 4D. I don’t see any sure fire top liners tho. Second group has guys I like more than others. I’d say if you wanted one from each but swapped Ritchie & Engvall which saves us money this year for further roster additions/flexibility and clears the room next year. I’d be way less into that second 1st, heck even a 2nd with that change is tough to swallow when I look at it laid out.
Ritchie + Holl + Tier 1 (Knies) + Tier 2 (Steeves/Kral/Rubins) + 22 1st
Miller 50% + Schenn
Maybe a conditional 23 3rd that coverts to a swap of Toronto’s 1st for Vancouver’s 2nd based on a cup win/extension.

What about eliminating the conditional first, and making a third, that if the previous conditions are met, becomes a second? That makes it a little less tough to swallow if the goal ends up to resign Miller after a solid year and a half in blue and white?

Other wise I could probably be happy with Steeves/Rubin, the 22 1st and conditional 1st/2nd in 23.

Assuming Benning is trebuchet'd into space.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Miller having another great year on pace for 90pt season, one of the few Canucks that decided to show up this year.

He’d be a great add to a playoff contender trying to take the next step forward to favorite status.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Would do it for Byram

I bet you would

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Holl (fill in top 4RHD) + Engvall + 22 1st + Amirov/Knies/Robertson/Niemela + 23 2nd that becomes 1st based on a cup final or Miller extending.
Miller 50% + Schenn

Was thinking more Mikayev then Engvall but that works. Stop after 22 1st

 

[Diamonddog01]

Would match rather trade Horvat than Miller.

 

[jd22]

Would rather trade 1st rounders than Miller. JT isn't old, and I think will age well. If the team can get it together maybe he's cool with another contract.

Half the teams core will be 30+ before any draft picks show up, if they do at all. Our 2 best fowards this year are JT and Garland, 5 year deals, traded for 1sts. Take a page out of Vegas' book and load up the current team. Shitcan the coach, see what Dman and 3c you can get with what looks like an incoming high 1st.

Team is already loaded with drafted talent. Every year its a new stud rookie. We don't have time to do it again, will lose players faster than they can be replaced.

This is how Chicago was able to win multiple cups; by replacing their scoring players that require new, expensive contracts with ELC players.

 

[McJedi]

Would do it for Byram

Then you’re adding Hoglander and a 2022 1st unprotected.

Avs won’t be trading a 20 yard old top pair on ELC. That’s a player that doesn’t get traded under any circumstances.

 

[BPD]

I think the Rangers should be all over this if he's really on the block.

I also don't think the Rangers bat an eye at trading a decent prospect in a package for him, especially if it happens to be Kravtsov and/or Robertson

 

[its josh]

I think the Rangers should be all over this if he's really on the block.

I also don't think the Rangers bat an eye at trading a decent prospect in a package for him, especially if it happens to be Kravtsov and/or Robertson

But Schneider plus 1st for 50% retained?