Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Treliving to Toronto makes a ton of sense.

I won't be surprised at all when that one is official.

Hell it might even be a good idea. I'm not near as down on Treliving as others. Clearly the Tkachuk trade looks bad, now. But that was hardly the consensus at the time. Every other indication seems to be that Sutter was the real issue, there.

 

[IcedCapp]

Treliving to Toronto makes a ton of sense.

I won't be surprised at all when that one is official.

Hell it might even be a good idea. I'm not near as down on Treliving as others. Clearly the Tkachuk trade looks bad, now. But that was hardly the consensus at the time. Every other indication seems to be that Sutter was the real issue, there.

He had to make the trade though, no?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Tim Benz: Making sense of Mike Sullivan's reported AHL action plan for the Penguins' new GM

A Pittsburgh Penguins-related item we dropped into “First Call” last week has really stayed with me through the weekend. Tony Androckitis of Inside AHL Hockey posted these notes about the Penguins on both the NHL level in Pittsburgh and the AHL level in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. • “There are big...

triblive.com

I think everyone here fairly criticized Sullivan for his refusal to play any young players from WBS in regular roles last year, but I think the situation was that Sullivan just thought those guys stunk. It seems like Sullivan has been adamant this off-season about needing to improve WBS to have more NHL caliber players as call-up options.

I don't really recall seeing anything special in the few games that guys like Poulin and Hallander got, so I have a feeling Sullivan wants to push the new GM so that those caliber of players aren't Sullivan's first call-up options.

They do stink, WBS players were not very good outside of a select few.

Many wanted Angello up here here for his "toughness" or Zohorna because of his size/skill, both played their way out of the NHL.

The system sucks as expected, I am not complaining we were "trying" to bring in players that had impact and trading picks so I understand what the direction was

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He had to make the trade though, no?

Yeah I forgot about that angle. Dude wanted out, huh?

Owing to that I think Treliving did OK. Hell a ton of people (myself included) saw Hubs as at least an equally valuable piece.

After hearing some players talk about how they wouldn't really wanna be back if Sutter was back I gotta figure he's played a large role in a lot of this.

 

[Turin]

Delete

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Tim Benz: Making sense of Mike Sullivan's reported AHL action plan for the Penguins' new GM

A Pittsburgh Penguins-related item we dropped into “First Call” last week has really stayed with me through the weekend. Tony Androckitis of Inside AHL Hockey posted these notes about the Penguins on both the NHL level in Pittsburgh and the AHL level in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. • “There are big...

triblive.com

I think everyone here fairly criticized Sullivan for his refusal to play any young players from WBS in regular roles last year, but I think the situation was that Sullivan just thought those guys stunk. It seems like Sullivan has been adamant this off-season about needing to improve WBS to have more NHL caliber players as call-up options.

I don't really recall seeing anything special in the few games that guys like Poulin and Hallander got, so I have a feeling Sullivan wants to push the new GM so that those caliber of players aren't Sullivan's first call-up options.

He refused to acknowledge that who'd they be replacing have good odds of stinking more. Nylander proved that to be the case when he came up, handling top 6 minutes pretty well.
It's hard to show "anything special" in guys like Caggiula's case, getting 82% D-zone starts and averaging 6:30 on the 4th line. Dude got 26 minutes total.
Remember when he was doing great in camp? Yeah. Well, he was never given an opportunity to follow it up, unless you call what I said above an opportunity. He ended up being one of Wilkes leading scorers.

Sullivan probably should have just given guys actual chances to help the team instead of making assumptions, because he's not as smart as he thinks and his instincts are proven wrong all the time. The bar was basically near the floor. Wouldn't have taken much at all to be better than our garbage. Serviceable play would have cut it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He refused to acknowledge that who'd they be replacing have good odds of stinking more. Nylander proved that to be the case when he came up, handling top 6 minutes pretty well.
It's hard to show "anything special" in guys like Caggiula's case, getting 82% D-zone starts and averaging 6:30 on the 4th line. Dude got 26 minutes total.
Remember when he was doing great in camp? Yeah. Well, he was never given an opportunity to follow it up, unless you call what I said above an opportunity. He ended up being one of Wilkes leading scorers.

Sullivan probably should have just given guys actual chances to actually help the team instead of making assumptions, because he's not as smart as he thinks and his instincts are proven wrong all the time. The bar was basically near the floor. Wouldn't have taken much at all to be better than our garbage. Serviceable play would have cut it.

All of this, yes.

Far too easy to handwave the entire pool as "trash" and just leave it at that. There are no ringers in the bunch but I refuse to believe that you can't fish third and fourth liners regularly out of that group and save your team like 3M here and there every season. But they don't try. Any opportunity is a farce.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yeah I forgot about that angle. Dude wanted out, huh?

Owing to that I think Treliving did OK. Hell a ton of people (myself included) saw Hubs as at least an equally valuable piece.

After hearing some players talk about how they wouldn't really wanna be back if Sutter was back I gotta figure he's played a large role in a lot of this.

Yeah, Sutter is garbage, especially in the modern NHL. No clue why any GM with a good young team would risk Sutter running his players off

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, Sutter is garbage, especially in the modern NHL. No clue why any GM with a good young team would risk Sutter running his players off

He was on his way out I think but managed to bore a bunch of teams to death on his way to two Cups with the Kings. That gave his hoary old career a real shot in the ass.

He definitely has his finger on the pulse of how to play the game the exact way you'd want to see it if you secretly hated the sport and yourself, I guess.

 

[Pancakes]

I’m not saying he wants to fire Sullivan. Let’s say the coach was some rando named Bob who was 13-69 last year. Dubas probably doesn’t want to be told “you have to fire the coach.” He probably wants to, but it should be his decision

If it got to the point where Dubas did want to fire Sullivan I imagine he'd have FSG's support on that and FSG might even be willing to listen because if Dubas did want to fire Sullivan it would be because the Pens were once again missing the playoffs next year or the next few years.

I mean I get what you're saying but I just doubt it's a deal breaker. I guess we shall see.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

If it got to the point where Dubas did want to fire Sullivan I imagine he'd have FSG's support on that and FSG might even be willing to listen because if Dubas did want to fire Sullivan it would be because the Pens were once again missing the playoffs next year or the next few years.

I mean I get what you're saying but I just doubt it's a deal breaker. I guess we shall see.

If the ship isn't turned around mid-season next year Sully is gone

 

[Empoleon8771]

He refused to acknowledge that who'd they be replacing have good odds of stinking more. Nylander proved that to be the case when he came up, handling top 6 minutes pretty well.
It's hard to show "anything special" in guys like Caggiula's case, getting 82% D-zone starts and averaging 6:30 on the 4th line. Dude got 26 minutes total.
Remember when he was doing great in camp? Yeah. Well, he was never given an opportunity to follow it up, unless you call what I said above an opportunity. He ended up being one of Wilkes leading scorers.

Sullivan probably should have just given guys actual chances to help the team instead of making assumptions, because he's not as smart as he thinks and his instincts are proven wrong all the time. The bar was basically near the floor. Wouldn't have taken much at all to be better than our garbage. Serviceable play would have cut it.

That just shows how much WBS sucked if Nylander is the gold standard for what guys from WBS could do when called up

 

[Pancakes]

I keep seeing people shit on Nylander and I don't get it. He did pretty much everything well except finish. Great underlying numbers, great eye-test wise.

He earned the one way contract he got and I hope he gets regular minutes because I think he could be a solid contributor.

Maybe he'll bust but he's young and cheap. The Pens badly need a few cheap players to work out. He's worth a gamble on a roster spot imo.

 

[tnnr]

You mean the guys Dubas handed the keys to the castle to?

32 GMs would hand the keys to Matthews and Marner.

 

[Andy99]

I keep seeing people shit on Nylander and I don't get it. He did pretty much everything well except finish. Great underlying numbers, great eye-test wise.

He earned the one way contract he got and I hope he gets regular minutes because I think he could be a solid contributor.

Maybe he'll bust but he's young and cheap. The Pens badly need a few cheap players to work out. He's worth a gamble on a roster spot imo.

I dont know if people were shitting on him exactly…the thing is we desperately need a finisher or two on this team…I mean look at Carolina…ultimately no one on the Pens can finish worth shit the last two years…if you think shooting talent is the main problem (as opposed to Sullivan) then you can’t really justify too many Nylanders on the ice…we already have DOC who can’t finish, Poehling who can’t finish, Granlund who can’t finish…for the love of God, find someone who can finish some chances…

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dont know if people were shitting on him exactly…the thing is we desperately need a finisher or two on this team…I mean look at Carolina…ultimately no one on the Pens can finish worth shit the last two years…if you think shooting talent is the main problem (as opposed to Sullivan) then you can’t really justify too many Nylanders on the ice…we already have DOC who can’t finish, Poehling who can’t finish, Granlund who can’t finish…for the love of God, find someone who can finish some chances…

Like I keep saying he looked about the same as Rust to me in the same role.

And to hear most people tell it Rust is a perfectly fine top six player if not a downright bargain and by the end of the year was playing great hockey. I myself failed to actually see any of that this past year. But I'm kinda dumb.

But anyway by that logic Nylander is a suitable top six player. Hey... there's even more money that can be freed up for a third line center!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That just shows how much WBS sucked if Nylander is the gold standard for what guys from WBS could do when called up

I think the issue with Sullivan's judgment of WBS is first we have to ask, what exactly he would consider "good options"? We've seen his obsession with "they can PK" as literally the first thing he mentions when someone new is acquired, even when talking about Mikael friggin' Granlund. Sully rarely talks about "skill with the puck" or "sniper's touch" or any actual skill component. He's always talking about ZAR/Blueger replacements.

Look at a guy like Puustinen (sp). He's someone who showed some level of skill and could have potentially added to the top six for cheap, allowing us to spread out the offense by bumping one of our top six wingers down to L3. But Sullivan gave him like one game and then we never saw him again. Why? Sullivan didn't even seem to want to give him a half dozen game look.

So my issue isn't necessarily that I think WBS has a bunch of studs, but that I don't trust Sullivan's idea of what good "options" would look like. "Good options" for him seem to be bottom six players he can rely on in the defensive zone and to PK.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

That just shows how much WBS sucked if Nylander is the gold standard for what guys from WBS could do when called up

Nylander got the most opportunity, and that's only because of injuries. It's not like Sullivan sought him out.
Minutes, linemates, usage. We still haven't seen Puustinen up here, besides 1 game with Carter, in which he was quite strong imo. Hallander got 2 games. 20 minutes total, with a chunk of that being PK.
Caggiula's look was crap, like I said. Gruden should have never been at the front of the line. Strong argument to be made that Poulin is worse than some Wilkesers he got the spot in stead of.
We also saw Zohorna thoroughly outplay some bottom 6'ers we used this year when he was here, but chose to let him go.

Bottom line is we don't actually know how WBS'ers would perform here as regulars. We only have guesses. Sullivan is not allowing us to actually find out. As such this board shouldn't be making assessments until we get the sample size to base it off of.
Odds are they do little but it's a TBD.

 

[LiffLaff]

32 GMs would hand the keys to Matthews and Marner.

To steal from another poster in the Kyle Dubas wont be back thread:

"Marner took 6 years @ 10.9 five years ago

Pasta is better and he just signed for 11.250 @ for a full 8 years. He was making 6 x 6.66 before that

Brayden Point - 8 x 9.5

Matthew Tkachuk - 8 x 9.5

Kucherov - 8 x 9.5

Rantanen - 8 x 9.25

We got fewer years and a higher AAV on Marner than anyone else was doing at the time."

Then theres the fact that Matthews was taken right to UFA.

So I don't agree this is how 32 GM's would have handled it.

 

[Malkinstheman]

To steal from another poster in the Kyle Dubas wont be back thread:

"Marner took 6 years @ 10.9 five years ago

Pasta is better and he just signed for 11.250 @ for a full 8 years. He was making 6 x 6.66 before that

Brayden Point - 8 x 9.5

Matthew Tkachuk - 8 x 9.5

Kucherov - 8 x 9.5

Rantanen - 8 x 9.25

We got fewer years and a higher AAV on Marner than anyone else was doing at the time."

Then theres the fact that Matthews was taken right to UFA.

So I don't agree this is how 32 GM's would have handled it.

The fact that Matthews got 11.6 mil for only 5 years is still absolutely shocking to me. They made him the second highest paid player in the whole league coming off a 63 points in 62 games season. Somehow they couldnt even get him for 8 years at that cap hit. Now theres talk of AM getting paid 13m+ which is hilarious.

 

[LiffLaff]

The fact that Matthews got 11.6 mil for only 5 years is still absolutely shocking to me. They made him the second highest paid player in the whole league coming off a 63 points in 62 games season. Somehow they couldnt even get him for 8 years at that cap hit. Now theres talk of AM getting paid 13m+ which is hilarious.

Yeah, I can totaly understand wanting to get Matthews signed, so don't have that much issue with the cap hit, but the fact that they got pretty much the absolute worst term they could out of that deal is baffling to me.
Theres allso the Nylander negotiations, wich drag on in to the season, and they didn't really get a great deal for him either, considering he's play so far.
And I'm not saying any of those guys have been bad or anything like that, but to me it seems like Dubas caved with all of them, and like I've said in a previous post, I'd much rather give Tulsky a shot, as the Canes are much more in line with the type of team I'd like, and I don't have much faith in Dubas after seeing the teams he's built in TO over the years.

 

[Pancakes]

I dont know if people were shitting on him exactly…the thing is we desperately need a finisher or two on this team…I mean look at Carolina…ultimately no one on the Pens can finish worth shit the last two years…if you think shooting talent is the main problem (as opposed to Sullivan) then you can’t really justify too many Nylanders on the ice…we already have DOC who can’t finish, Poehling who can’t finish, Granlund who can’t finish…for the love of God, find someone who can finish some chances…

The finishing should come around if Nylander can continue to put up strong underlying numbers.

The bigger question is can Nylander continue to play as well as he was. It's worth finding out.

 

[66-30-33]

The fact that Matthews got 11.6 mil for only 5 years is still absolutely shocking to me. They made him the second highest paid player in the whole league coming off a 63 points in 62 games season. Somehow they couldnt even get him for 8 years at that cap hit. Now theres talk of AM getting paid 13m+ which is hilarious.

Good for him as long as it ain’t here.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

FSG has told Tulsky he’s out of the running. Interesting.