Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[RationalExpectations]

I mean the odds are we are picking outside the bottom-5 this year so yeah the standings do say we are pretty much finished the sit at the bottom collecting picks stage. And when you consider the man games lost to injury angle, the number of rookie D we played night in and night out it's even more apparent that the odds of us being at the bottom of the league moving forward are pretty low.

Right now, the odds of MTL finishing bottom 7 again next year are still pretty high to be honest : they should be better than ARI and PHI, but I don t see any other team in front of them in their reach and SJS ANA and CBJ should be much better than what they were this year.

Of course it depends what happens in the offseason.

 

[MasterD]

He hasn't proven that he can score more than 62 points in a season as of yet.

I know right!!!!!??!?!?!!

63 points/73 games for a 6'4'' 214lbs local guy, we have too many of those!

HaRdPaSs!!!?!??!?!?!!!!!

 

[SlafySZN]

I know right!!!!!??!?!?!!

63 points/73 games for a 6'5'' 214lbs local guy, we have too many of those!

HaRdPaSs!!!?!??!?!?!!!!!

He grew 3 inches overnight?

 

[Scriptor]

I hope you are right. I don't care about the 1st, but would really hate to see us lose Beck. But what would it take to get them to trade him to us this summer ? He would be extended.

It would have to be instead, IMO.

Beck as the main trade chip in one scenario (with Montreal's 2nd rounder and Harris/Barron, let's say).

FLA 1st + Dvorak + Harris/Barron, let's say.

Is Beck a future 2 or 3c? If he's a 3c and you're not sure Dubous won't get enticed by a big offer from another team, it's a good deal.

But the pick is another story. There's a big difference between it being the 13th pick and the 29th pick. We'll see where it winds up. 13th pick in this draft is probably a better asset than Owen Beck. 29th isn't.

Try 18th as a middle ground. With FLA in the playoffs, unless they win two rounds, this is the likeliest outcome.

 

[Scriptor]

None of whom are anywhere close to using Dubois as a comparable in their contract negotiations. Your fears are unfounded.

Plus, If both Caufield and Dubois sign around Suzuki money (ideally a little less), Hughes has completed what amounts to an internal Cap hit ceiling.

Unless youngsters are mega star level production-wise, it will be hard for them to expect higher Cap hits on their second NHL contracts.

The prime example is when Malkin signed for the equivalent of Crosby's contract on his 2nd NHL contract and then got higher than Crosby in his third NHL contract.

 

[Scriptor]

So he didn’t say it, so what we have is a nothing burger. Yet, there is a thread dedicated to him on teams board who doesn’t own his rights and I’m the clueless one haha. Thanks for the laughs scriptor.

The nothing burger is all the folks screaming we should wait until free agency because he claimed it's Montreal or nothing.

Dubois, if traded to Montreal, will be asked to sign an extension as part of the deal. Since Montreal is not a No Fly zone for Dubois, as it is with many UFAs, a deal has the potential to be made at that point.

That's the value of trading for Dubois, rather than need to overbid at free agency to get him.

Trading for a player has value in the contract negotiation for the extension because the team has shown genuine interest in the player other than putting a blank check on the table for them to sign as an UFA.

We've seen it with other players getting traded and signing more reasonable extensions than what they might have gotten on the open market.

But none of this matters as you don't like the player.

He grew 3 inches overnight?

NHL has him listed at 6'4", 214 lbs, but he was 6'2" when he was drafted.

 

[Scriptor]

Right now, the odds of MTL finishing bottom 7 again next year are still pretty high to be honest : they should be better than ARI and PHI, but I don t see any other team in front of them in their reach and SJS ANA and CBJ should be much better than what they were this year.

Of course it depends what happens in the offseason.

Yes, it does depend on what happens in the offseason, but why would the bolded teams be much better? Why would they improve that much more than Montreal? Curious?

Fine, one gets Bedard, but, as we've seen with the Oilers, BUF and other rebuilding teams, a player arriving doesn't make them instant playoff teams or cusp of playoff teams.

I'm just not sure that Bedard will have an immediate Crosby impact on whichever team nabs him.

It might take a couple of years for him to find his bearings and bring it up a notch.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

He grew 3 inches overnight?

He takes the same supplements as Hutson.

They're both going to be 7'8

 

[RationalExpectations]

Yes, it does depend on what happens in the offseason, but why would the bolded teams be much better? Why would they improve that much more than Montreal? Curious?

Fine, one gets Bedard, but, as we've seen with the Oilers, BUF and other rebuilding teams, a player arriving doesn't make them instant playoff teams or cusp of playoff teams.

I'm just not sure that Bedard will have an immediate Crosby impact on whichever team nabs him.

It might take a couple of years for him to find his bearings and bring it up a notch.

Definitely not saying they will improve more than the Habs just saying that we must not take for granted that they ll finish behind MTL

 

[yianik]

It would have to be instead, IMO.

Beck as the main trade chip in one scenario (with Montreal's 2nd rounder and Harris/Barron, let's say).

FLA 1st + Dvorak + Harris/Barron, let's say.


Try 18th as a middle ground. With FLA in the playoffs, unless they win two rounds, this is the likeliest outcome.

Yeah, Beck and Barron are 2 guys I don't want to move. If I'm the Jets though I want Beck as part of a package.

 

[Noldo]

That's the value of trading for Dubois, rather than need to overbid at free agency to get him.

Trading for a player has value in the contract negotiation for the extension because the team has shown genuine interest in the player other than putting a blank check on the table for them to sign as an UFA.

We've seen it with other players getting traded and signing more reasonable extensions than what they might have gotten on the open market.

Actually there is no riskier position for a GM to be than trading for an UFA-to-be an extend the player immediately because the player knows that the GM is under enormous pressure to get the deal done and has just shown to value the player very high (as they have paid high price to obtain the player), giving the player strong negotiation position. [see Seth Jones, Pageau]. The situation is different where the deal is made as a condition of the trade (Tkatchuck, Stone).

 

[OnTheRun]

Matthews, Marner, Nylander... Nobody gave the Leafs any leaway after they saw what an outsider like Tavares got.

Rebuilding teams with young talent still unsigned should avoid giving the big bucks to outsiders free agents IMO.

Let them grow together and make them want to win together.

Dubois is full of red flags. Already the 3rd time he signifies he wants to be traded in 5 years.

He asked to be traded once, and that's it, the rest is fantasy.

Also I have no idea why anyone would single out PLD when they are fully aware that CBJ core literally imploded during that time frame.

 

[waitin425]

Dvo + Florida 1st + Norlinder

Just get this done.

PLD is part of the solution going forward. A great piece to add to our young core. Mix in whoever we pick this year (hopefully Bedard or Michkov) and this team forward core is absolutely set.

Bedard/Michkov
PLD
Suzuki
Caufield
Dach
Slaf

Defence

Hutson
Guhle
Barron
Axe
Mailloux

These are the young core pieces to build around.

GET IT DONE!!

 

[MasterD]

He grew 3 inches overnight?

I had him at 6'2'', then saw 6'4' somewhere else, edited it but messed up with 6'5'' apparently lol.

Oups

 

[sampollock]

PLD will be traded at the draft and a contract will be annoumced days later.
Kent will not wait till ufa, so that a pile of teams can bid on him.

book it

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

PLD will be traded at the draft and a contract will be annoumced days later.
Kent will not wait till ufa, so that a pile of teams can bid on him.

book it

... said Jojo Savard, lol. Ok serious, it looks very logical but frankly I have no idea what will happen.
I hope this is what will happen, at a reasonable price of course.

 

[River Meadow]

Dvo + Florida 1st + Norlinder

Just get this done.

PLD is part of the solution going forward. A great piece to add to our young core. Mix in whoever we pick this year (hopefully Bedard or Michkov) and this team forward core is absolutely set.

Bedard/Michkov
PLD
Suzuki
Caufield
Dach
Slaf

Defence

Hutson
Guhle
Barron
Axe
Mailloux

These are the young core pieces to build around.

GET IT DONE!!

PLD will be our French Canadian Jesus.

LFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

 

[BLONG7]

Thinking the Dubois trade will happen at the draft.....
We have picks and prospects, and very well likely a guy like Dvo who will go the other way....

 

[Goldthorpe]

I trust Hughes the ex player agent in being able to know Dubois intentions through the gravepines. We won't ever trade for him blind.

 

[waitin425]

PLD will be our French Canadian Jesus.

LFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

View attachment 686666

Can't tell if serious or not. He is PART of the future, not THE future. I could care less if he is French Canadian. He will be an excellent 60-70 point second line centre and part of our top 6.

Dach - Suzuki - Cole
Slaf - PLD - Bedard/Michkov (please)

That is a deadly top 6 in 2-3 years

 

[River Meadow]

Can't tell if serious or not. He is PART of the future, not THE future. I could care less if he is French Canadian. He will be an excellent 60-70 point second line centre and part of our top 6.

Dach - Suzuki - Cole
Slaf - PLD - Bedard/Michkov (please)

That is a deadly top 6 in 2-3 years

I agree, my only thing is...

We can get him for free.

We don't need to give a 17 OA pick, plus, plus, plus, plus....

He grew 3 inches overnight?

He wore lifts

 

[salbutera]

I agree, my only thing is...

We can get him for free.

We don't need to give a 17 OA pick, plus, plus, plus, plus....



He wore lifts

It won’t be, it’ll be a 20OA+ pick, Fla gonna make noise these playoffs…

20OA+ pick has less than 10% probability of ever becoming an NHLer

 

[MD thaivuN]

1 mid first-round pick + Dvo for Dubois is okay. Dunno if Winnipeg would be happy with Dvo though

 

[TomKosto]

He's a serviceable center on a relatively low contract cost. Which is basically what Pionk was (only on defense) just less of a contractual commitment which won't matter to the Jets as part of a rebuild anyways. They can choose to use Dvorak as a body or retain and deal him somewhere.

They aren't moving PLD without taking some salary back especially if they deal him to a contender. Only in most cases the salary they will get back would be like Andrew Ladd, not a serviceable 3B

Pionk was a 22 yo RD when he was traded, who was having a good 2nd season (almost same number of point than Dvorak this year) before getting traded to Win. Yea Dvorak is a "serviceable" center but he just came off a surgery, his value is really low. They are really not good comparable. Dvorak is a cap dump at this point. If we can really get Dubois by dumping Dvorak salary and giving a late first, jeez Hughes would look like a genius.

 

[Colezuki]

It won’t be, it’ll be a 20OA+ pick, Fla gonna make noise these playoffs…

20OA+ pick has less than 10% probability of ever becoming an NHLer

? in order for it to be higher then 18th the panthers need to make the conference finals. I can't see them beating the Bruins and Canes back to back