Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[JohnTheBaptist]

He hasn't proven that he can score more than 62 points in a season as of yet.

 

[yianik]

Trouba trade. Same situation. Same GMs (Gorton a VP)

The Florida pick will likely be higher than 20OA. But what about equals Pionk ?

 

[WeThreeKings]

The Florida pick will likely be higher than 20OA. But what about equals Pionk ?

Dvorak, honestly. 20s roster player. Pionk developed a bit there in WPG and maybe Dvorak is better out west. Balance it with a Kapanen level prospect.

 

[Michoulicious]

Don't want to give anything for Dubois.

Even for "free" as a free agent, his salary requirements alone for next year will set us back in the long run.

I see a Tavares 2.0 situation where our young core refuses to give any discount seeing we overpaid for a free agent to be. He has also many character red flags going back to junior.

Hopefully Hughes will see the light and let the rebuild run its course.

 

[Captain97]

I mean, you could have said:

Dach 6'4
Slafkovsky 6'3
Anderson 6'3
Monahan 6'2

At the beginning of the season. Listing names and heights doesn't mean anything.

And most people are opposed to Dubois at any cost.

Being small isn't/hasn't been as much of an issue as not having elite talent for the organization. Dubois is a very good player, but he's been a PP specialist playing on a team with lots of PP weapons. If that PP performance is more team-oriented than player oriented (like the last few guys Bergevin brought in to fix the PP), then you're looking at a guy who produces like the current version of Gallagher or Monahan.

Considering what Dubois will rightly demand on his next contract, its not a risk-less acquisition. And considering the mess Bergevin left behind, Montreal doesn't have that much leeway to take major risks. Calculated ones? fine. But if the choice is trading a good 1st, a quality prospect ++ and then making him the highest paid forward in franchise history, then I'm going to want to spend a ton of time to explore all other options instead. Montreal is rebuilding, Dubois only makes sense if its a good deal.

Dubois has literally more points than Anderson and Monohan combined as is 24 and would be 2nd on our team in points. He was on pace for 70 points this year.

Let's be conservative and say he would have had 3 points in the 10 games he missed/has yet to play.

24 year old, 65 point, 6'4 power forwards are hard to get and if we can aquire one at a fair to good price we should.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Dubois has literally more points than Anderson and Monohan combined as is 24 and would be 2nd on our team in points. He was on pace for 70 points this year.

Let's be conservative and say he would have had 3 points in the 10 games he missed/has yet to play.

24 year old, 65 point, 6'4 power forwards are hard to get and if we can aquire one at a fair to good price we should.

Sure. Because of injuries and the PP. But over the last 3 seasons Anderson has a better 5v5 points per 60 than Dubois.

I'm not sure how many players who do most of their scoring on the PP the organization needs before fans realize that just because they produced on the PP on one team doesn't mean they will on another, but we must be getting close that limit, right?

And I like Dubois, I thinks he's a very good player. But he's also the kind of player (like Anderson) where the fair to good price is almost invariably an overpayment. A team in Montreal's position should trade for him if its a very good price. Otherwise its worth risking the wait.

 

[Destopcorner]

Dvorak, honestly. 20s roster player. Pionk developed a bit there in WPG and maybe Dvorak is better out west. Balance it with a Kapanen level prospect.

Barron is the real Pionk comparable. Around same age, position, breakout season. He had a wonderful year with NYR before being traded.

 

[TomKosto]

Dvorak, honestly. 20s roster player. Pionk developed a bit there in WPG and maybe Dvorak is better out west. Balance it with a Kapanen level prospect.

Dvorak value is so low, even more after the surgery. The equivalent to Pionk going the other way might be Barron or Harris. Dvorak is a cap dump at this point.

 

[Sorinth]

Why would anyone offer more without any guarantees that Dubois will sign long terms with them?

The Jets would almost certainly allow teams to talk to his agent before any trade is finalized.

 

[Destopcorner]

Sure. Because of injuries and the PP. But over the last 3 seasons Anderson has a better 5v5 points per 60 than Dubois.

I'm not sure how many players who do most of their scoring on the PP the organization needs before fans realize that just because they produced on the PP on one team doesn't mean they will on another, but we must be getting close that limit, right?

And I like Dubois, I thinks he's a very good player. But he's also the kind of player (like Anderson) where the fair to good price is almost invariably an overpayment. A team in Montreal's position should trade for him if its a very good price. Otherwise its worth risking the wait.

How many times have you seen him play? You watch a lot of Winnipeg games late at night?

PLD is what we want Slaf to become... but plays center. His skating is fantastic for his frame, he protects the puck like no one on our team and will drive the net every time he can. Great shot and hockey sense too.

And I bet you a little 20 he's not gonna be the highest paid attacker in the history of the organization. Kid doesn't care that much about money and wants a competitive team to win with. Same or less than Suzuki is my call.

 

[Sorinth]

Don't want to give anything for Dubois.

Even for "free" as a free agent, his salary requirements alone for next year will set us back in the long run.

I see a Tavares 2.0 situation where our young core refuses to give any discount seeing we overpaid for a free agent to be. He has also many character red flags going back to junior.

Hopefully Hughes will see the light and let the rebuild run its course.

Odds are Caufield will have signed before the draft so our core will have already be pretty much all signed.

 

[yianik]

Dvorak, honestly. 20s roster player. Pionk developed a bit there in WPG and maybe Dvorak is better out west. Balance it with a Kapanen level prospect.

I would be thrilled if that was the price. Dvorak would be a management pick up, the fans would hate it. But yeah, add in a Kapanen and maybe that does it. It should be competitive to what a contender might offer to rent him for the year, but Florida's 1st is likely the best they get.

 

[yianik]

There is 0 chance I would include Barron in a deal for PLD. We need all the quality RHD darts we can get.

 

[Michoulicious]

Odds are Caufield will have signed before the draft so our core will have already be pretty much all signed.

Guhle, Slaf, Hutson, upcoming top 10 pick, Hutson... Big home grown talent contracts will come soon enough. Dubois will get 7 years for sure.

 

[Sorinth]

Guhle, Slaf, Hutson, upcoming top 10 pick, Hutson... Big home grown talent contracts will come soon enough. Dubois will get 7 years for sure.

None of whom are anywhere close to using Dubois as a comparable in their contract negotiations. Your fears are unfounded.

 

[Michoulicious]

None of whom are anywhere close to using Dubois as a comparable in their contract negotiations. Your fears are unfounded.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander... Nobody gave the Leafs any leaway after they saw what an outsider like Tavares got.

Rebuilding teams with young talent still unsigned should avoid giving the big bucks to outsiders free agents IMO.

Let them grow together and make them want to win together.

Dubois is full of red flags. Already the 3rd time he signifies he wants to be traded in 5 years.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Matthews, Marner, Nylander... Nobody gave the Leafs any leaway after they saw what an outsider like Tavares got.

Rebuilding teams with young talent still unsigned should avoid giving the big bucks to outsiders free agents IMO.

Let them grow together and make them want to win together.

Dubois is full of red flags. Already the 3rd time he signifies he wants to be traded in 5 years.

Suzuki is signed long term, and Caufield's extension is expected to be announced soon. Which player is going to be asking more because of Dubois next contract?

 

[Dach Vader]

Why would we not want this guy? I'd want him even sooner if we draft a Bedard or Benson sized type. he just has to live up to his contract. If he signs somewhere around Suzuki's caphit, he'll be fine.

He's big, young, and has offense. Versatile, can play wing or center. We could pair him with Suzuki - Caufield, or put him on Dach's wing to help with faceoffs. Lots of options,

 

[WeThreeKings]

Dvorak value is so low, even more after the surgery. The equivalent to Pionk going the other way might be Barron or Harris. Dvorak is a cap dump at this point.

He's a serviceable center on a relatively low contract cost. Which is basically what Pionk was (only on defense) just less of a contractual commitment which won't matter to the Jets as part of a rebuild anyways. They can choose to use Dvorak as a body or retain and deal him somewhere.

They aren't moving PLD without taking some salary back especially if they deal him to a contender. Only in most cases the salary they will get back would be like Andrew Ladd, not a serviceable 3B

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Why stretch it, now, to only wants to be a Hab?

That he considers Montreal a destination he could see himself going to is more than any such C has said at 24 years of age.

I don't give a damn that his name is Dubois, but you can crawl back into your hole and burn all your French Quebecer voodoo dolls if that's your thing.

You are genuinely unpleasant. If that was the aim, well done.


That's ridiculous! Nothing above $7,999,998.00

So he didn’t say it, so what we have is a nothing burger. Yet, there is a thread dedicated to him on teams board who doesn’t own his rights and I’m the clueless one haha. Thanks for the laughs scriptor.

 

[morhilane]

The Jets would almost certainly allow teams to talk to his agent before any trade is finalized.

That's actually rather rare, since that means the player can dictate where he's going by telling teams he won't sign with them long term which reduce his trade value...

 

[Sorinth]

Matthews, Marner, Nylander... Nobody gave the Leafs any leaway after they saw what an outsider like Tavares got.

Rebuilding teams with young talent still unsigned should avoid giving the big bucks to outsiders free agents IMO.

Let them grow together and make them want to win together.

Dubois is full of red flags. Already the 3rd time he signifies he wants to be traded in 5 years.

First off it's extremely dubious that Matthews would have taken less had they not signed Tavares. I mean this is a guy who decided that he didn't want to play in CHL or NCAA during his draft year because he wouldn't get paid. You think that guy was 100% going to leave money on the table if not for Tavares's contract? I mean come on, that's pure fantasy.

Second, some of the guys you listed are like 4-5 years away from their first RFA years. So you don't want to sign a guy now because 5 years down the road a player might not give you a discount? It's absurd.

 

[Sorinth]

That's actually rather rare, since that means the player can dictate where he's going by telling teams he won't sign with them long term which reduce his trade value...

I doubt it's as rare as you think, also the player is already dicating where he's going go, and as you already mentioned his trade value is reduced because teams will be worried about being able to sign him long term. You can't claim his trade value is reduced because teams don't know if they can sign him long term but also claim his trade value will be reduced if teams know whether they can sign him long term.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

The sit at the bottom of the standings collecting top picks portion of the rebuild certainly looks like it's over.

According to who? Not the standings.

 

[Sorinth]

According to who? Not the standings.

I mean the odds are we are picking outside the bottom-5 this year so yeah the standings do say we are pretty much finished the sit at the bottom collecting picks stage. And when you consider the man games lost to injury angle, the number of rookie D we played night in and night out it's even more apparent that the odds of us being at the bottom of the league moving forward are pretty low.