Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Jaynki]

Dubois won't sign an OS guys. He would have the worst miserable season and year of his life.

If all parties involved are acting in good faith,

FLA 1st should do it.

 

[TomKosto]

Dubois won't sign an OS guys. He would have the worst miserable season and year of his life.

If all parties involved are acting in good faith,

FLA 1st should do it.

That's what I see happening, maybe with a contract going the other way.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Why can't he be traded to a team like Boston, let's say Bergeron retire this summer? A team can still pay more than Kapanen and a 2025first rounder, we see that kind of deal every year at the deadline, Chiarot being one example. Now they can have Dubois for a year. Chevy isn't going to accept a deal that makes him look like a rookie DG.. He can always keep Dubois as his own rental if our offer is so low.

He certainly can.. if Boston wants to pay for a rental. But then Winnipeg, an already unpopular destination for free agents, will hurt their reputation further by sending a player somewhere he doesn't want to be.. and then we can just sign him off Free Agency and not have paid the acquisition cost.

Why didn't a team pay for Trouba as a rental? It's the same situation. The player informed them he was leaving and there was a limited number of teams he wanted to go to.. basically the Rangers.. and the trade was done.

We don't need Dubois next season. We don't. Dubois making it pretty known for years he wants to be here in Montreal.

The leverage is entirely with the Habs and the landscape for a trade has already been solidified for a long time.

We don't pay through the nose just because.

 

[General Fanager]

Why are people terrified of trading FLA's 1st for him but willing to offer sheet with our own 2024 1st?

Offer sheet for 4.2 is only a 2nd rounder. Then The Jets cant trade him for the year which means he walks as a UFA.

Basically its a 2nd or zero or they can be reasonable with trade talks.

 

[TomKosto]

He certainly can.. if Boston wants to pay for a rental. But then Winnipeg, an already unpopular destination for free agents, will hurt their reputation further by sending a player somewhere he doesn't want to be.. and then we can just sign him off Free Agency and not have paid the acquisition cost.

Why didn't a team pay for Trouba as a rental? It's the same situation. The player informed them he was leaving and there was a limited number of teams he wanted to go to.. basically the Rangers.. and the trade was done.

We don't need Dubois next season. We don't. Dubois making it pretty known for years he wants to be here in Montreal.

The leverage is entirely with the Habs and the landscape for a trade has already been solidified for a long time.

We don't pay through the nose just because.

We fan, don't need Dubois, but maybe managment wants him? We don't know what kind of plan was sold to Molson by Gorton. Lebrun said they had discussion this year, and we still don't need him right now.

The speculation about Winnipeg as a destination is kinda far fletch, but I can see your point. I just think what your owner and fans wants is to have the best return for ur franchise. Chevy is on the spot, if he trades Dubois for a lowball offer, he's pretty much done in the Peg. I mean if we give up 1st Fla 2023, it's still a steal in my mind and close to Trouba value. I would prefer to trade one of our smaller prospect, because we many of those. We can draft a better prospect with the Florida pick than Mesar and Beck IMO.

The Dach trades make me think they go for a short rebuild. I just don't see a NHL GM giving up a Dubois for such a bad offer. Maybe it will be a first, it's a new situation, I'm all in for it.

Offer sheet for 4.2 is only a 2nd rounder. Then The Jets cant trade him for the year which means he walks as a UFA.

Basically its a 2nd or zero.

We are going to have a lot of young rfas coming in the next few years, don't think it's the best idea to angry an other NHL owner.

 

[General Fanager]

We fan, don't need Dubois, but maybe managment wants him? We don't know what kind of plan was sold to Molson by Gorton. Lebrun said they had discussion this year, and we still don't need him right now.

The speculation about Winnipeg as a destination is kinda far fletch, but I can see your point. I just think what your owner and fans wants is to have the best return for ur franchise. Chevy is on the spot, if he trade Dubois for lowball offer, he's pretty much done in the Peg. I mean if we give up 1st Fla 2023, it's still a steal in my mind and close to Trouba value. I would prefer to trade one of our smaller prospect, because we many of those. We can draft a better prospect with the Florida pick than Mesar and Beck IMO.

The Dach trades make me think they go for a short rebuild. I just don't see a NHL GM giving up a Dubois for such a bad offer. Maybe it will be a first, it's a new situation, I'm all in for it.


We are going to have a lot of young rfas coming in the next few years, don't think it's the best idea to angry an other NHL owner.

I agree, I was just saying how it can be done for next to nothing....

The long run cost might be devastating though....

 

[TomKosto]

I agree, I was just saying how it can be done for next to nothing....

The long run cost might be devastating though....

Yea, Caufield is not signed yet, let's not repeat history.

 

[Colezuki]

He certainly can.. if Boston wants to pay for a rental. But then Winnipeg, an already unpopular destination for free agents, will hurt their reputation further by sending a player somewhere he doesn't want to be.. and then we can just sign him off Free Agency and not have paid the acquisition cost.

Why didn't a team pay for Trouba as a rental? It's the same situation. The player informed them he was leaving and there was a limited number of teams he wanted to go to.. basically the Rangers.. and the trade was done.

We don't need Dubois next season. We don't. Dubois making it pretty known for years he wants to be here in Montreal.

The leverage is entirely with the Habs and the landscape for a trade has already been solidified for a long time.

We don't pay through the nose just because.

im beginning to come around to this line of thinking, no need to trade the FLA 1st for him I'd rather either give up just some of the prospects that won't fit long term or just wait

 

[Jaynki]

Because there's no precedent for it.

Why are we the ones, to finally, be the ones paying the best prospect and draft capital out of every other RFA in the same position?

It makes no sense.

Dubois wants to be here. It's one of the worst kept secrets in the NHL. Kypreos said it's 100%, Freidman says its 95%. Winnipeg has no leverage. Hughes is a skilled negotiator as we've seen.

You don't get very far in a value driven league giving away value just because. The market on these trades have been set and with the fact that Dubois is ending up here sooner, rather than later, paying a larger acquisition cost than anyone else in the same situation is just asinine and irresponsible. I don't get why anyone would advocate for that.

If we give FLA 1st for Dubois. We are the one getting out with the most value out of it net-net.

Also, it is not just about having him in the end anyway. Its a strong commitment towards the player to acquire him now. Those thing are seen and notable throughout the league. I am purely speculating but i feel its the type of move that may incite the player to go easy and take a hometown discount.

Asset management is not only about holding picks and prospects and lowballing everyone. Its also about building strong relations and paying your stars their due.

Its not giving value just because. Its acting strong for a strong player and showing a commitment to him instead of letting him rot another year for the sake of holding on a top 12-15 picks or a prospect like Beck.

Not paying up for Dubois and waiting for him to be a UFA in 2024 would be a classic, exponential Bergevin move.

 

[Paddy17]

The problem for Winnipeg with going the trade him as a rental route is twofold.

1) risk of injury- if he is injured at the deadline he has Sean Monahan value
2) what if Jets are sitting 3rd in the division at the deadline, do you trade him then to a contender for futures and fall out of the playoffs?

I think they have to go the Calgary route with Tkachuk as opposed to the calgary route with Gaudreau and either get him signed long term this summer or move him. keeping him to lose for nothing or be in a no win situation at the deadline is the least likely option

Perfect answer!

 

[Canadienna]

Offer sheet for 4.2 is only a 2nd rounder. Then The Jets cant trade him for the year which means he walks as a UFA.

Basically its a 2nd or zero or they can be reasonable with trade talks.

I dont think Dubois signs that.

 

[salbutera]

If we give FLA 1st for Dubois. We are the one getting out with the most value out of it net-net.

Also, it is not just about having him in the end anyway. Its a strong commitment towards the player to acquire him now. Those thing are seen and notable throughout the league. I am purely speculating but i feel its the type of move that may incite the player to go easy and take a hometown discount.

Asset management is not only about holding picks and prospects and lowballing everyone. Its also about building strong relations and paying your stars their due.

Its not giving value just because. Its acting strong for a strong player and showing a commitment to him instead of letting him rot for the sake of holding on a top 12-15 picks or a prospect like Beck.

Not paying up for Dubois and waiting for him to be a UFA in 2024 would be a classic, exponential Bergevin move.

Why do HuGo have to pay up for him?

Chevaldayoff has zero leverage - which teams GM is going to offer a 1st rounder for a pure rental they know is looking to sign w Habs?

Horvat return only happened because Uncle Lou knew he was going to extend him, same Trouba deal - and both those deals involved additional bidders driving up acquisition cost

 

[Scriptor]

I think they value Chevy but man... Imagine if our GM traded pieces like Laine and Ros for a guy we thought we could convince to stay but he didn't? We would throw him under the bus in a heart beat.

Aside from Dubois, that core has been in place for a while now. I think Bowness got them to play better team D this year but they seem to be complacent today. I think players like Dubois, Scheifele, and Helle know what's coming cause they are not staying and then the others like Connor, Morrisey, and Ehlers know what's up as well.
Can they trade Dubois but convince Scheifele and Helle to extend this summer? Doubt it. But then, that depends on who they get for Dubois. Do they trade him for someone who has 2 RFA years of control? Maybe but then I wonder, who's that guy?

Maybe Chevy's Day Off only has value because he's willing to be in Winnipeg?

 

[Vachon23]

Offer sheet for 4.2 is only a 2nd rounder. Then The Jets cant trade him for the year which means he walks as a UFA.

Basically its a 2nd or zero or they can be reasonable with trade talks.

You know that PLD need to accept the offer right ?

which teams GM is going to offer a 1st rounder for a pure rental they know is looking to sign w Habs?

Many teams like each year when teams goes after rental

 

[WeThreeKings]

If we give FLA 1st for Dubois. We are the one getting out with the most value out of it net-net.

Also, it is not just about having him in the end anyway. Its a strong commitment towards the player to acquire him now. Those thing are seen and notable throughout the league. I am purely speculating but i feel its the type of move that may incite the player to go easy and take a hometown discount.

Asset management is not only about holding picks and prospects and lowballing everyone. Its also about building strong relations and paying your stars their due.

Its not giving value just because. Its acting strong for a strong player and showing a commitment to him instead of letting him rot for the sake of holding on a top 12-15 picks or a prospect like Beck.

Not paying up for Dubois and waiting for him to be a UFA in 2024 would be a classic, exponential Bergevin move.

No.. the Bergevin move would be to overpay for Dubois and create a bunch of other roster holes in the process. See: Drouin, Jonathan.. where he paid more than Drouin was worth with Sergachev and a conditional 2nd, let Radulov and Markov walk to sign Alzner.

The one who looks ridiculous in this hypothetical scenario is Chevy.. if he was to deny a player their preferred destination to hold out for a package that is bigger than the same situations we've seen for, including a deal concluded between the same two front offices.

I don't have an issue giving up the Florida pick for Dubois, but they won't be getting much else in it. They certainly wouldn't be getting one of our top 10 prospects in the deal. Again, there's no precedent for that.. so why would we break precedent and overpay in a situation where we have all the leverage?

Montreal has 2 options: Make a trade for Dubois now based on the archetypes of similar trades that have happened recently, or wait until UFA to get Dubois.

Jets have some options but none of them are good: Keep Dubois as an own-rental and lose him for nothing in the off-season. Trade Dubois to his preferred destination in line with similar compensation in trade packages. Hold on to Dubois, play him and risk injury, then trade him for a similar package at the deadline to a team using him as a rental in which case the 1st is almost guaranteed to be lower.

No team is going to wildly outbid the Montreal Canadiens on a player that has all but said he is going here no matter what as long as we want him.

 

[ReHabs]

Why do HuGo have to pay up for him?

Chevaldayoff has zero leverage - which teams GM is going to offer a 1st rounder for a pure rental they know is looking to sign w Habs?

Horvat return only happened because Uncle Lou knew he was going to extend him, same Trouba deal - and both those deals involved additional bidders driving up acquisition cost

Plenty of teams would love a cheap power forward rental for a cup run.

Everybody here wants to hold onto Anderson who gets 35pts a season unless there is a big offer but for PLD suddenly he’s considered worthless?? Get real.

 

[Hansman]

Chevy needs to blow up that team, need to rebuild. I like the jets, but it is time Chevy.

1 WIN IN THEIR LAST 15

 

[Jaynki]

Why do HuGo have to pay up for him?

Chevaldayoff has zero leverage - which teams GM is going to offer a 1st rounder for a pure rental they know is looking to sign w Habs?

Horvat return only happened because Uncle Lou knew he was going to extend him, same Trouba deal - and both those deals involved additional bidders driving up cost

Cheveldayoff may trade him to another team. A late 1st for Dubois could be enticing for a team that may see him as a rental.

He has to trade him. He dont have to trade him to the Habs.

We need to beat the market for him. Luckily, we probably have the best available 1st RD pick (Unless a team in the top ten would unfold it for Dubois). We are in a position to deal it. And its known the player wants to be here.

Everyone complaining about Bergevin lack of moves to surround his core. Then we have it here lined up on a silver platter and poster want Hughes/Gorton to go the Bergevin route.

 

[Scriptor]

Agreed - which is being overlooked by everyone, “sorry not showing up to camp if I’m not traded”

As I posted previously, HuGo can help accelerate that guerrilla tactic by working with outside sources… NYR executed that collusion to perfection w Adam Fox w Gorton leading the rebel alliance

Not sure that happens because of the PR surrounding such an action. Already, with the trade request out of Columbus (which I still consider justified) and being unwilling to sign long term in WIN...

 

[Jaynki]

No.. the Bergevin move would be to overpay for Dubois and create a bunch of other roster holes in the process. See: Drouin, Jonathan.. where he paid more than Drouin was worth with Sergachev and a conditional 2nd, let Radulov and Markov walk to sign Alzner.

The one who looks ridiculous in this hypothetical scenario is Chevy.. if he was to deny a player their preferred destination to hold out for a package that is bigger than the same situations we've seen for, including a deal concluded between the same two front offices.

I don't have an issue giving up the Florida pick for Dubois, but they won't be getting much else in it. They certainly wouldn't be getting one of our top 10 prospects in the deal. Again, there's no precedent for that.. so why would we break precedent and overpay in a situation where we have all the leverage?

Montreal has 2 options: Make a trade for Dubois now based on the archetypes of similar trades that have happened recently, or wait until UFA to get Dubois.

Jets have some options but none of them are good: Keep Dubois as an own-rental and lose him for nothing in the off-season. Trade Dubois to his preferred destination in line with similar compensation in trade packages. Hold on to Dubois, play him and risk injury, then trade him for a similar package at the deadline to a team using him as a rental in which case the 1st is almost guaranteed to be lower.

No team is going to wildly outbid the Montreal Canadiens on a player that has all but said he is going here no matter what as long as we want him.

I think we agree on most finally.

I also think that if all parties involved are acting in good faith.

The deal is FLA 1st.

 

[salbutera]

Many teams like each year when teams goes after rental

I believe all 1st rounders traded / acquired this deadline were for a player who either has term remaining on his contract or is a pending RFA, not for UFA

 

[Vachon23]

I believe all 1st rounders traded / acquired this deadline were for a player who either has term remaining on his contract or is a pending RFA, not for UFA

I mean players like Ben Chiarot and David Savard where traded for 1st round pick as pure rentals. This year:
Tyler Bertuzzi
Dimitri Orlov
Ryan O'Rielly

Where all traded as rentals

WPG surely can receive a 1st for PLD

 

[Scriptor]

His bosses will need to make that decision…. I can see Chevy just walking away from that GM gig or looking for another GM gig elsewhere to walk away to

Pretty much doing what all players do when they land in Winnipeg?

 

[salbutera]

Cheveldayoff may trade him to another team. A late 1st for Dubois could be enticing for a team that may see him as a rental.

He has to trade him. He dont have to trade him to the Habs.

We need to beat the market for him. Luckily, we probably have the best available 1st RD pick (Unless a team in the top ten would unfold it for Dubois). We are in a position to deal it. And its known the player wants to be here.

Everyone complaining about Bergevin lack of moves to surround his core. Then we have it here lined up on a silver platter and poster want Hughes/Gorton to go the Bergevin route.

I can’t think of a team in recent memory that traded a 1st for a pending UFA knowing full well he’s got one team on his radar.

Over the last 10-years GMs have become very shrewd w 1st. Even this year Leafs are quite sure they’ll resign ROR and there’s mutual interest from all reports, all the others traded for 1st had term (Ekholm etc) or were pending RFAs (Jeanotte etc)

I mean players like Ben Chiarot and David Savard where traded for 1st round pick as pure rentals. This year:
Tyler Bertuzzi
Dimitri Orlov
Ryan O'Rielly

Where all traded as rentals

WPG surely can receive a 1st for PLD

Zito tried to sign him but couldn’t match Wings offer

 

[CDN24]

Cheveldayoff may trade him to another team. A late 1st for Dubois could be enticing for a team that may see him as a rental.

He has to trade him. He dont have to trade him to the Habs.

We need to beat the market for him. Luckily, we probably have the best available 1st RD pick (Unless a team in the top ten would unfold it for Dubois). We are in a position to deal it. And its known the player wants to be here.

Everyone complaining about Bergevin lack of moves to surround his core. Then we have it here lined up on a silver platter and poster want Hughes/Gorton to go the Bergevin route.

I think the Jets have to trade him and probably this offseason. It is the Matthew Tkachuk situation where the player has made it clear (at least I think so that he won't sign an extension long term). If you can't extend him this summer you can risk losing him for nothing as a UFA.
You probably can't risk waiting to the deadline either as he could end up being injured and his Value becomes nothing or you are on playoff bubble at the deadline. Then what do you do- keep him and lose him for nothing or trade him where you likely only can get a contender to overpay with futures that results in you falling out of playoffs- not sure the market will/can accept that.

IMO he is extended or traded this off season - much like Trouba was. Trouba got a 1st 20th and Pionk. Not sure PLD gets that much if the Mtl rumors are true- he only gets it if the team can agree to a contract before the deal.

Gorton made the Trouba trade, I wonder if he makes that trade again in hindsight. The Jets won that one. Pionk has been both the better and cheaper D-man since the trade and jets got a 1st