Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?
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WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Possibly.. I do think there's a chance we get a 1st in an Anderson deal that's more in that 20s spot and it will be the 1st going back. We certainly don't need Anderson if we get PLD and we'll want to free up that salary.
Vachon23
Registered User
We all knew Chiarot was going to test the market
And who knows if PLD doesn't resign with the team that trade for him ?
Go figure. Had it been Horvat, 24, not 27, I wonder if there would be as much refusal ton trade for Horvat at the same suggested cost?
Montreal fans turn on Q-Beckers like no others.
We all need to rout for Calgary to knock the jets out of the wildcard this year. That would immediately spark the Jets rebuild starting with Dubois coming home.
Calgary is only 2 points back.
Go Flames
Calgary is only 2 points back.
Go Flames
Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
same could be said with Calgary and we own that 2024/2025 pick lots of trouble in Calgary right now
pretty sure PLD is leaving even if Jets win the cup
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Canadienna
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Draft
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If we’re acquiring Dubois, we’re looking to accelerate the rebuild. We're trying to become a better team. If we're committed to being competitive in 1-2 seasons, then a 2024 1st (top-5/10 protected) is the pick that should be traded, not the FLA one that could have a near-immediate impact on the organization.
2024 1st (top 10 protected, moves to 2025 unprotected) + Kapanen + Armia
Medium risk, immediate reward in both the short and long term. WPG gets three solid assets, sheds at least 3mil in cap. The cap dump is offset by the potential of holding an unprotected 1st.
2024 1st (top 10 protected, moves to 2025 unprotected) + Kapanen + Armia
Medium risk, immediate reward in both the short and long term. WPG gets three solid assets, sheds at least 3mil in cap. The cap dump is offset by the potential of holding an unprotected 1st.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Why not just use the Calgary 1st instead of our own, in this circumstance?
CDN24
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Flames have the easiest schedule left- the only game they have against a team in a playoff spot currently is the jets
They have hawks, sharks. ducks, canucks twice Nashville and Jets.
Jets have Jersey, Avs, wild, sharks, wings, Flames and preds
The preds may get that spot yet- they have 2 more games left and are 1 point back of Flames and 3 back of jets. Schedule is tough but they have played well lately Canes, Knights, Avs, wild, stars, Blues Flames, pens and jets
I had no idea that if the Habs offer sheet him and the Jets match, they can't trade him next year. They'd lose him for nothing then. They're in a bad position.
Draft
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Honestly? Too much shit going on with that pick
From MTL's perspective, I think this is a viable substitution given that this pick doesn't involve betting on the improvement of the team. However, I think the conditions make this pick less of an assured asset and ultimately less attractive for WPG.
At the same time, with the conditions and the way CGY/FLA is trending, it might be the more valuable pick. I think it would depend on WPG's perspective on the quality of the CGY pick and Hughes' confidence in the team's immediate improvement.
JustAHabFan
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Agree. We should never offersheet PLD. The Jets will be very happy to match the offersheet and get PLD lock up for another 7 years.
FF de Mars
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JustAHabFan
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A signed 6.3M / 1 year offer-sheet strategy would indeed send a strong message to other teams still doubting the authenticity of Dubois’ willingness to become a Montreal Canadien; might even encourage most teams to seek other targets from the outset for 2024 and onwards, making a potential bidding war for a UFA Dubois less likely.
From what I understand, as long as Dubois doesn’t elect for arbitration himself - or signs a contract with Montreal before July 5th if Winnipeg elects for arbitration - this offer-sheeting strategy is a great « Catch-22 ».
This being said, I’d still prefer acquiring Dubois via trade, using the aforementioned Catch-22 as leverage so that the best asset included in the package be less interesting than the MTL’s 2024 1st the Jets would receive if they (unlikely) don’t equalize the Habs’ offer.
salbutera
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That is the key to all of this speculative jibber jabber
Panarin & Fox were only going to sign with only 1-team. Trouba limited destinations to 3.
1-team end destination limit leaves Chevaldayoff with no leverage. If you’re a GM are you ready to give up a 1st for a disgruntled player who can’t wait for the season to end to sign w Habs? And do you want such a poison in your room / impact culture of team?
Why would we certainly not need Anderson if we get PLD? You'd think the plan was to get really better, not to replace players and maybe get somewhat better?
In the short term, Anderson makes the team better and provides a better environment to develop the kids.
Now, if you're able to trade Anderson, not for Dubois, but for a young, top-4 RHD, that's a different story, because, with Dubois added to the lineup, we would be dealing from a position with new-found strength (new power forward) to improve a position of weakness (RD).
IMO, shoring up the right side of D faster than drafting a D that may only be up with the team in three, four our five years is an important move, especially if you are looking for someone to play with Hutson at a certain level in two years.
Still, Anderson remains valuable to the Habs in the short term as younger players aren't yet ready to play in the NHL with an impact. In two or three years, with only a year or two left on his contract and the Cap ceiling spiking upwards, Anderson will be seen as a bargain contract and his value might well go up for a team aspiring to the Cup.
Would Montreal be there at that point? It is unlikely, but if they were, Anderson might still be useful to the as their own two or one year rental.
le_sean
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Montembeault is a backup. Don’t kid yourself.
And what is this thread if it isn’t dreaming? This whole site is a dream. Every prospect will hit and we have dream lineups with zero UFAs.
That's the point. He doesn't want to resign with them. If they match, he only needs to sign 1 year. Then he's a ufa and they'd lose him for nothing.
Jets have to look at the situation and think the Habs aren’t the only team that could offer sheet him and it’s clear he’d accept other offers. That reinforces the message that if they can’t sign him before July that they need to trade him asap
As an aside, several posters speak of accelerating the rebuild if we add Dubois. Some go on to say that like it is some kind of evil that ruins the rebuild.
I just don't understand how adding along term talent that is currently only 24 does not belong to the rebuild?
Isn't rebuilding about gradually making the team stronger/better and for the long haul?
Why isn't Dubois, an addition for the long haul considered a part of gradually improving the team?
We all agree he shouldn't be considered a saviour. Well, actually, I think that those who want to acquire Dubois do not consider him a saviour, while those who don't want to acquire Dubois must strictly be looking for saviours since they keep warning us that Dubois is not good enough to be a saviour!
Building a team with saviours rarely works. For one, it's a team sport. Secondly, there aren't that many, if any, saviours.
Matthews is not a saviour. McDavid is not a saviour. Yet, these players are considered generational.
Whether at C, or on the W, Dubois would be considered a solid part of any NHL team's top-6. If adding certifiably young but solid parts to our top-6 for the long term, with their prime years on display, is not the exercise undertaken in a rebuild, what are we doing, exactly?
Adding Dubois, IMO, because he is a long term addition that will play here throughout his prime years, is like drafting an early first round player that has an immediate impact on the team's fortunes. Would you toss that fish back in the ocean of that were the case? Would you consider that we are accelerating the rebuild, or that the rebuild is going well?
Our own pick in 2023 is the player we would hope becomes as good as Dubois, and, at 6th or 7th, if we are unlucky and slip, either because of the end of the schedule or the lottery draft, that becomes less likely. But, we shouldn't be expecting the same caliber of player as Dubois from a 14th OA pick. It's not impossible, but it's not habitual, let's say.
When it happens, it's usually because a player that should have been rated top-5 slips to that rank due to fears about intangibles like size, such as when Caufield slipped to 15th OA.
I'm not worried about accelerating the rebuild if we are adding players young and skilled enough to be part of our young core today and part of ur core for the next 8 years, or more.
Adding Dubois is but one move, among many to have happened, and many to come. It, to me, counts to gradually improving the roster and, Dubois' proven production and skills at the NHL level become important to properly surround and help develop mother younger players of talent.
Dubois, at just 24, is a young veteran that youngsters can lean on to help overcome hurdles as they arise before them, both by his play on the ice and by sharing personal lessons when it comes to overcoming growing pains at the NHL level.
Even if Dubois remains a solid 60-point, top-6 forward and doesn't continue to progress to becoming a 70-point or PPG forward, he remains a valuable top-6 addition to your team that can help another forward become a 70-point or a PPG forward.
He adds size and grit, unafraid to park himself in the opposing G's crease, a steady flow of goals (25+), playmaking abilities to exploit other goal-scorers' skills and defensive awareness to go head to head with other teams' best players in the playoffs, enough to become a thorn in their side by his imposing presence.
Would I want Dubois on my team? Considering I don't expect Dubois to be the only skilled player on my team, why would I not want him on my team to play a role only a Power center with his profile can, especially when players with that profile aren't present on every team in the NHL as it is?
I just don't understand how adding along term talent that is currently only 24 does not belong to the rebuild?
Isn't rebuilding about gradually making the team stronger/better and for the long haul?
Why isn't Dubois, an addition for the long haul considered a part of gradually improving the team?
We all agree he shouldn't be considered a saviour. Well, actually, I think that those who want to acquire Dubois do not consider him a saviour, while those who don't want to acquire Dubois must strictly be looking for saviours since they keep warning us that Dubois is not good enough to be a saviour!
Building a team with saviours rarely works. For one, it's a team sport. Secondly, there aren't that many, if any, saviours.
Matthews is not a saviour. McDavid is not a saviour. Yet, these players are considered generational.
Whether at C, or on the W, Dubois would be considered a solid part of any NHL team's top-6. If adding certifiably young but solid parts to our top-6 for the long term, with their prime years on display, is not the exercise undertaken in a rebuild, what are we doing, exactly?
Adding Dubois, IMO, because he is a long term addition that will play here throughout his prime years, is like drafting an early first round player that has an immediate impact on the team's fortunes. Would you toss that fish back in the ocean of that were the case? Would you consider that we are accelerating the rebuild, or that the rebuild is going well?
Our own pick in 2023 is the player we would hope becomes as good as Dubois, and, at 6th or 7th, if we are unlucky and slip, either because of the end of the schedule or the lottery draft, that becomes less likely. But, we shouldn't be expecting the same caliber of player as Dubois from a 14th OA pick. It's not impossible, but it's not habitual, let's say.
When it happens, it's usually because a player that should have been rated top-5 slips to that rank due to fears about intangibles like size, such as when Caufield slipped to 15th OA.
I'm not worried about accelerating the rebuild if we are adding players young and skilled enough to be part of our young core today and part of ur core for the next 8 years, or more.
Adding Dubois is but one move, among many to have happened, and many to come. It, to me, counts to gradually improving the roster and, Dubois' proven production and skills at the NHL level become important to properly surround and help develop mother younger players of talent.
Dubois, at just 24, is a young veteran that youngsters can lean on to help overcome hurdles as they arise before them, both by his play on the ice and by sharing personal lessons when it comes to overcoming growing pains at the NHL level.
Even if Dubois remains a solid 60-point, top-6 forward and doesn't continue to progress to becoming a 70-point or PPG forward, he remains a valuable top-6 addition to your team that can help another forward become a 70-point or a PPG forward.
He adds size and grit, unafraid to park himself in the opposing G's crease, a steady flow of goals (25+), playmaking abilities to exploit other goal-scorers' skills and defensive awareness to go head to head with other teams' best players in the playoffs, enough to become a thorn in their side by his imposing presence.
Would I want Dubois on my team? Considering I don't expect Dubois to be the only skilled player on my team, why would I not want him on my team to play a role only a Power center with his profile can, especially when players with that profile aren't present on every team in the NHL as it is?
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
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Rushing a rebuild....why? Why in the world do we do that, when we can't even count 2018 as a rebuild because JK isn't with us anymore...and you can't even count 2022 'cause it's clear that while he will be a good player, SLAF will not be the No1 that changes the face of a team.
Our rebuild has to be wise and precise. Our rebuild needs to take into consideration the OTHER teams around us. And what they have upcoming. There is no world where acquiring PLD while giving some futures will make us more relevant and where the window will be more there in 1 or 2 years than it would in 3 to 5 years. Chances are our 2nd rounders could play a more significant than our 1st rounders last year. And I like Slaf. So....this team is not close of becoming relevant. And having Dubois next year won't change that.
Our rebuild has to be wise and precise. Our rebuild needs to take into consideration the OTHER teams around us. And what they have upcoming. There is no world where acquiring PLD while giving some futures will make us more relevant and where the window will be more there in 1 or 2 years than it would in 3 to 5 years. Chances are our 2nd rounders could play a more significant than our 1st rounders last year. And I like Slaf. So....this team is not close of becoming relevant. And having Dubois next year won't change that.
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