Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[salbutera]

There's no precedent to send a prospect of Beck's caliber in a trade for Dubois.

Trouba didn't get it.
Meier didn't get it.

Why would PLD get it?

I would argue they did in Pionk - but again that’s only because Chevaldayoff targeted a local Minny boy. Too bad Habs don’t have a Minny, Wisconsin or Michigan prospect not named Caufield to offer up. Poehling circa 2021 could’ve been that prospect.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Horvat trade is what Jets fans are clinging to.

If we were them, we would too.

I find it strange when someone says Trouba didn't get a Beck quality? I have him worth a 20-32 range pick. Is he worth better than that?

 

[Captain Mountain]

None of Scheifele, Hellebuyck or Wheeler will resign if they only see proven NHL commodities constantly leaving their team to picks & prospects. Combine that with the fact, Winter-peg is the last resort team for players with any type of trade protection let alone ability to lure UFAs.

Most importantly for the business well being of the franchise (which is the most imprtanr aspect), Chevaldayoff needs to find a way to stop the bleeding of players saying no mas to the org - Byfuglien, Trouba, Laine and now PLD. Trading the latter for picks is a PR disaster since players talk…

Now if Chevaldayoff has received green light for rebuild, then yeah great way to kick that off.

So? An unprotected 2024 1st from a lottery team is a much easier peice to use to acquire current NHL talent than a guy driving to UFA status.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would argue they did in Pionk - but again that’s only because Chevaldayoff targeted a local Minny boy. Too bad Habs don’t have a Minny, Wisconsin or Michigan prospect not named Caufield to offer up. Poehling circa 2021 could’ve been that prospect.

In the Trouba trade, the Rangers 20th pick is close to what Beck is worth IMO.

 

[Scriptor]

There's no precedent to send a prospect of Beck's caliber in a trade for Dubois.

Trouba didn't get it.
Meier didn't get it.

Why would PLD get it?

PLD is smart. Pretty sure he gets it

 

[Habs Halifax]

Beck, Roy, Kidney, Mesar….I mean take your pick

With a forward depth of Caufield, Suzuki, Gurianov, Anderson, Dubois, Dach, Slaf, Fantilli/Bedard, we can afford to give one up and we can start competing immediately with the emergence of Monty and our young D.

Plus you have RHP and Farrell and whoever we select with the Florida pick and the rest of the draft.

Get it done….plus Winnipeg will most certainly ask for one of them.

Agreed. If we are trading for Dubois, one of the prime pieces will be Beck or Panthers 1st or one of our RD's (Barron or Mailloux). I don't think we can pull off a trade for Dubois without one of those prime pieces in it.

So yeah, I prefer to protect the Panthers 1st and our RD's. I value Beck very high but he's the one I would dangle.

I think the Habs 2nd is also a good piece to dangle. Of course I rather not trade it but that has very good value cause it's basically a fringe 1st rounder in an apparent deep draft.

Beck and Habs 2nd is a good starting point IMO. That alone is competitive to what a contender might offer at the 2024 deadline

 

[sampollock]

I think PLD forces Chevy's hand, he wants out if they miss playoffs.
If kent gets him at the draft, that speeds up the retool, like NYR did

 

[salbutera]

I think PLD forces Chevy's hand, he wants out if they miss playoffs.
If kent gets him at the draft, that speeds up the retool, like NYR did

Agreed - which is being overlooked by everyone, “sorry not showing up to camp if I’m not traded”

As I posted previously, HuGo can help accelerate that guerrilla tactic by working with outside sources… NYR executed that collusion to perfection w Adam Fox w Gorton leading the rebel alliance

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think PLD forces Chevy's hand, he wants out if they miss playoffs.
If kent gets him at the draft, that speeds up the retool, like NYR did

It's very interesting on the Trouba, Dubois, and Gorton connection where he was with the Rangers when they acquired Trouba and now he's with the Habs and they have another Trouba situation in Dubois.

I can certainly see Chevy getting frustrated on his gamble that didn't pay off. Laine and Ros for Dubois who is forcing his way to UFA one RFA year at a time.

If Chevy decides to wait for 24 TDL, he is asking for trouble IMO. Major distraction all season long and what if Dubois is uninspired or get injured? Also, if Chevy trades Dubois for a NHL player who is has 2 RFA years, he's also asking for trouble by trying to delay the decision to rebuild IMO. Best to take the best futures you can get on draft day.

Lets say Chevy is open to a Dubois for a player who has 2 RFA years left? Buys him time. Who may that player be? Any guesses? I can't think of any

 

[BLONG7]

Just can't see us trading Mailloux to the Jets for PLD. Beck maybe, stay tuned I guess.

 

[salbutera]

It's very interesting on the Trouba, Dubois, and Gorton connection where he was with the Rangers when they acquired Trouba and now he's with the Habs and they have another Trouba situation in Dubois.

I can certainly see Chevy getting frustrated on his gamble that didn't pay off. Laine and Ros for Dubois who is forcing his way to UFA one RFA year at a time.

If Chevy decides to wait for 24 TDL, he is asking for trouble IMO. Major distraction all season long and what if Dubois is uninspired or get injured? Also, if Chevy trades Dubois for a NHL player who is has 2 RFA years, he's also asking for trouble by trying to delay the decision to rebuild IMO. Best to take the best futures you can get on draft day.

Lets say Chevy is open to a Dubois for a player who has 2 RFA years left? Buys him time. Who may that player be? Any guesses?

The difference being Trouba never restricted his trade destination to only NYR, there were two teams in the hunt, thus leverage to increase asking price.

Which is also why, if Habs truly are only destination for PLD, Chevaldayoff has zero leverage… zilch

No GM will give up any assets knowing PLDs pulling a Vanek, and has only one final destination in mind. #lowballoffer

 

[Habs Halifax]

The difference being Trouba never restricted his trade destination to only NYR, there were two teams in the hunt, thus leverage to increase asking price.

Which is also why, if Habs truly are only destination for PLD, Chevaldayoff has zero leverage… zilch

No team will give up any assets knowing he’s pulling a Vanek and has only one final destination in mind. #lowballoffer

I don't remember exactly who else Trouba would open the sign/trade with but the list was not deep. And yeah, if Dubois is only open to sign/trade with the Habs, that makes it worse for the Jets.

Do you think Sakic trades for just the one RFA year? If so, Avs 1st and what else? We can easily beat their offer. What if they offer Avs 1st, Newhook, and Girard. Does our Panthers 1st, Beck and a B prospect trump that?

What if Sakic's offer is Avs 1st and Girard. What would be the Jets plans to replace Dubois at center if they still want to compete next year?

Also, who has more trade value? Dubois this summer or Trouba when he was traded? 50 pts on D for someone young like that is rare.

 

[salbutera]

I don't remember exactly who else Trouba would open the sign/trade with but the list was not deep. And yeah, if Dubois is only open to sign/trade with the Habs, that makes it worse for the Jets.

Do you think Sakic trades for just the one RFA year? If so, Avs 1st and what else? We can easily beat their offer. What if they offer Avs 1st, Newhook, and Girard. Does our Panthers 1st, Beck and a B prospect trump that?

Tomas Vanek is the comparable that comes to mind, Bergevin was able to acquire him at deadline for a 2nd rounder, simply because no other GM was willing to offer up a 1st rounder for a rental player everyone knew before that season started was waiting to sign w Minny

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tomas Vanek is the comparable that comes to mind, Bergevin was able to acquire him at deadline for a 2nd rounder, simply because no other GM was willing to offer up a 1st rounder for a rental player everyone knew before that season started was waiting to sign w Minny

Imagine if it gets worse... Dubois says he will play in Europe if he is not traded to the Habs this summer. Doubt that happens but imagine. Jets fans would hate us forever and x100

So... I do wonder, how many teams would Dubois be open to in a sign/trade. If he is indeed liking the idea of coming home and joining this young core and he knows we will pay him 8x $8M (+/-), why would he play nice with any other team in sign/trade?

I'm pretty sure Dubois asked out of Columbus and wanted to be traded to the Habs.

 

[BergevinBurner]

What if they offer Avs 1st, Newhook, and Girard. Does our Panthers 1st, Beck and a B prospect trump that?

I don't think the Avs consider a 1st and Newhook for a second if they're under the impression he won't sign with them.

If other GMs are under the impression they're getting him for 1 playoff run and that's it, then I can't see them fetching anything more than a 1st + B level prospect.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think the Avs consider a 1st and Newhook for a second if they're under the impression he won't sign with them.

If other GMs are under the impression they're getting him for 1 playoff run and that's it, then I can't see them fetching anything more than a 1st + B level prospect.

Kind of how I see it too.

 

[salbutera]

Kind of how I see it too.

HuGo have Chevaldayoff’s balls in a vise grip…squeeze it shut & make him cry Uncle

 

[sampollock]

Chevy needs to blow up that team, need to rebuild. I like the jets, but it is time Chevy.

 

[salbutera]

Chevy needs to blow up that team, need to rebuild. I like the jets, but it is time Chevy.

His bosses will need to make that decision…. I can see Chevy just walking away from that GM gig or looking for another GM gig elsewhere to walk away to

 

[sampollock]

His bosses will need to make that decision….

your right. hockey in the peg is gold, but at some point you need to fish or cut bait.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The Horvat trade is what Jets fans are clinging to.

Well, unfortunately for them.. there won't be a bunch of teams bidding and Montreal isn't desperate for someone to come in and help them get into the play-offs.

Beck, Roy, Kidney, Mesar….I mean take your pick

With a forward depth of Caufield, Suzuki, Gurianov, Anderson, Dubois, Dach, Slaf, Fantilli/Bedard, we can afford to give one up and we can start competing immediately with the emergence of Monty and our young D.

Plus you have RHP and Farrell and whoever we select with the Florida pick and the rest of the draft.

Get it done….plus Winnipeg will most certainly ask for one of them.

They don't need to give up a quality asset like that. Winnipeg has no leverage here.

They can pick from the Kapanen pool of B prospects, but they aren't getting one of our top prospects.. that means Guhle, Barron, Slaf, Mesar, Farrell, Kidney, Roy, Engstrom, Mailloux, and Beck are all off the table.

They'll get a play-off team first, they'll get a roster player like Dvorak they can use or sell, and someone like Kapanen as I mentioned.

If they want anything more than that, OK, we will see Dubois in a year.. have fun trying to get anything close to that from a team using him as a rental.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Just can't see us trading Mailloux to the Jets for PLD. Beck maybe, stay tuned I guess.

I don't see us trading either. Mesar/Kidney/Ylonen are the prospects I could see us trading since they are behind a lot of prospects/young players in the system. For example, Kidney will have a hard time getting a top 9 center role here when we have Suzuki - Dach/Dubois - Beck at center.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

He’s a (on pace for) 70pt player, of course he moves the needle. This team of ours often has zero 70pt players! If I’m not mistaken our last 70pt player was Max Domi. He would be — and is, in fact — an impact player.

He was drafted high and then traded for a big time valuable player in Laine and his profile remains highly coveted across the league. It’s for this reason I find it strange a begger-team’s fanbase like the Habs, one that has degraded itself to cheering for losses, would turn its nose up at PLD available for a paltry sum.

At the time of the Dvorak trade there was no promise of the pick sent over’s position, it was a first and second round pick. I think it’s fair enough to stratify their values (eg 14OA vs 27OA) but after a certain point the Habs have to bet on themselves. They did so with the Dach trade, and I reckon Hughes and Gorton aren’t the type to clutch onto first round picks with an icy grip like Bergevin did.

The undeniable fact is that impact players are worth more than lower first round picks (and later draft picks of course).

You could not rate PLD, that’s fair enough. I’d love Fiala, or Meier, or PLD, or any sort of youngish player who can contribute to team success for multiple years to come.

Anywho it’s just as likely so many Habs fans end up achieving their wish that PLD never ends up on the Habs (for the price, whatever it would be, is too high) and it’s just as likely the Habs continue oscillating between having one and zero 70pt players like we have done for years now.

Without a superstar like Carey Price I don’t think we will be able to overcome a bad depth and skill on offence no matter what.

There is no promise of success when it comes to impact NHL players — we’ve often seen our drafts celebrated and prospect pools celebrated and praised and have still not had a single 70pt player come through from our draft picks. My personal conviction is that an unprotected 1st+3rd is a fair price for PLD because of the gamble factor with the protection. FLA overpaid for Chiarot as a rental but this guy isn’t Chairot.

I am quite sure that Hughes won't go the offer sheet regardless, so it's a moot point.

Meier is a comparable trade except Florida's 1st is going to better than NJD 1st. That's the only starting point we should take.

Horvat went for a mid-1st, an early 2nd round prospect, and a cap dump. Meier went for a late 1st, a late 1st round prospect, a young player, another prospect, and conditional picks.

An equivalent trade would be Florida's 1st, Beck or Mesar, Ylonen, and Armia as a cap move.

That's it. No way should we be sending the moon to Winnipeg for freaking PLD, certainly not a potential lottery pick.

 

[jaffy27]

This guy on 690 just offered Anderson, Beck, Florida 1st and Evans for good measure for Dubois lol

 

[TomKosto]

This guy on 690 just offered Anderson, Beck, Florida 1st and Evans for good measure for Dubois lol

We can add Mailloux too