Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[BarracudaMtl]

I'm not willing to give away the moon for PLD ... just have to wait for him to become a UFA.

But a top 10 protected ( could be Florida's) + a defense like Harris or Barron .... I don't think it's much to secure a big 60 point Center like PLD.

Not too long ago ...having a Suzuki , Dach or PLD was just a dream for us.

.........................

Not many are going to agree with me, but I think with a PLD and a full (healthy) team ..we can put up a fight for a playoff spot starting next season.

 

[salbutera]

I'm not willing to give away the moon for PLD ... just have to wait for him to become a UFA.

But a top 10 protected ( could be Florida's) + a defense like Harris or Barron .... I don't think it's much to secure a big 60 point Center like PLD.

Not too long ago ...having a Suzuki , Dach or PLD was just a dream for us.

.........................

Not many are going to agree with me, but I think with a PLD and a full (healthy) team ..we can put up a fight for a playoff spot starting next season.

+ a starting goalie as part of core which I suspect HuGo will also acquire this offseason

 

[Scriptor]

The bolded sentence is what I and many others disagree with.

The reason to trade for him and extend him now is to avoid circumstances shifting and then finding out he is not available in 15 months.

There's that, but there is also the downward pressure on the contract talks the you are the only team negotiating with the player VS a bidding war and there is the development aspect of having Dubois in your lineup at the start of next season to help support young players currently in the lineup and possibly joining the lineup out of camp.

There are many good reasons for a trade acquisition of Dubois in the offseason this year.

 

[Scriptor]

There is not 1 scenario IF WE DEAL HIM, that a guy like Armia isn't part of a deal. If you give picks and prospects for a guy you would have had for free, IT MEANS that Winnipeg HAS to pick up players we don't want as well. Armia in there. Pitlick. And even include Dvorak. And build a bigger deal.

Dubois + Zhilkin for 2nd round 2024, Armia, Pitlick and Dvorak. They get SO much more than NOTHING....get a good prospect too. We get rid of money. We get the evident best player of the deal by far. And a really good prospect. They acquire a very very good pick and 3 players that could play in their lineup right away. Maybe I'm even too generous and pass Dvorak for something else in a different deal.....I know.

If you can't get that, you wait.

That's one of the worst incentives for WIN to trade Dubois to Montreal that I have seen. I wouldn't even Mae that offer in order to try and keep a relationship with WIN for further down the line (you never know).

Might as well say you'll only wait until 2024 to sign Dubois as an UFA.

 

[Vachon23]

Not many are going to agree with me, but I think with a PLD and a full (healthy) team ..we can put up a fight for a playoff spot starting next season.

In the west, if the teams is healthy and we have solid goalies I could agree.

In the East though, I think they are to much good teams and where defensive group is not enough good yet

 

[Habs Halifax]

Its the 2024 first. So yes. I am.

Risky even with protection

 

[Scriptor]

Leverage is used to drive the price down. And Offersheet with Montreal's unprotected 2024 1st at worst doesn't affect the price at all and hands leverage to Dubois, not Hughes.



Even if we ignore some of the ridiculous asks from Jets fans for Dubois, Montreal would have to offer at least as much as what Dubois would cost as a pure rental (something like a late 1st or early 2nd and a prospect plus something else). Maybe the Jets would see value in Dvorak, but even if they did the offer would have to be Montreal 2023 2nd, Dvorak and Kidney. I don't think the Jets would do that, but 2nd round 2024, Armia, Pitlick and Dvorak gets your number blocked.

Also gets your lawn toilet papered.

 

[Team_Spirit]

The Jets are playing themselves out of the playoffs and Dubois has 1g 2a -6 in his last 10gp... shit filet is worse with 1 assist in 8gp and -12.

Yikes

 

[Habs Halifax]

A team that sees themself as a contender was able to add Tarasenko AND Kane at the TDL this year. Winnipeg doesn’t need to deal Dubois this summer.

This is true but all the Habs have to do is offer better than either of Tarasenko or Kane or the Horvat trade. This offer below is competitive to a 24 TDL price. It's the low end and then we wait to see if another team tries to trump it. Panthers 1st and our RD's (Barron and Mailloux) are pieces I rather not trade. Panthers 1st is a maybe depending on other teams offers. I then swap out the 2nd for the Panthers 1st but I personally don't go deeper than that. I don't think others teams do as well.

* Beck is one the Jets like. I'm sure of it. He's worth a late 1st today (20-32 range). I don't like the idea of trading him but then I look at the centers we have after the trade and I'm fine with it. Suzuki, Dubois, Dach, Kidney, Kapanen, and one (Bedard, Fantilli, Smith).

* Habs 2nd is 37-40 range. This is not something a contender can offer at next year's deadline with their 2nd. That's a very valuable piece to offer. It's basically a fringe 1st rounder in an apparent deeper draft than normal drafts.

* Then we consider the 3rd piece. Could be any one of Engstrom, Tuch, Struble, etc.

* We don't really have to force a NHL contract going the other way. Other teams do though which could give us an advantage. Could be any one of Dvorak, Eddy, Hoffman, Armia, or Gurianov. Let them decide but if they start to say we want more value for taking one of them on, we tell them that there is no NHL contract going the other way.

So yeah, Jets decide to wait till 24 TDL and reject that offer this summer? I think the return they get might be worse and imagine if he gets injured or has an off year? I personally don't think they take that risk and distraction.

One other question: Jets have been through this before with Trouba. Are they disgruntled about it and try something different this time around? Possible. I'm not completely ignoring it but do I see them liking the "we keep Dubois and trade him as a rental" plan? NO.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

The Jets are playing themselves out of the playoffs and Dubois has 1g 2a -6 in his last 10gp... shit filet is worse with 1 assist in 8gp and -12.

Yikes

Can't wait to see what happens if they miss the playoffs down there, not only roster changes but I would have to imagine it's time to clean house as well up there starting with Cheveldayoff

 

[WeThreeKings]

The Jets are playing themselves out of the playoffs and Dubois has 1g 2a -6 in his last 10gp... shit filet is worse with 1 assist in 8gp and -12.

Yikes

Taking the C away from Wheeler and keeping Scheifele around doesn't change the fact that shit humans in a locker room make a bad locker room.

 

[MasterD]

I'm not willing to give away the moon for PLD ... just have to wait for him to become a UFA.

But a top 10 protected ( could be Florida's) + a defense like Harris or Barron .... I don't think it's much to secure a big 60 point Center like PLD.

Not too long ago ...having a Suzuki , Dach or PLD was just a dream for us.

.........................

Not many are going to agree with me, but I think with a PLD and a full (healthy) team ..we can put up a fight for a playoff spot starting next season.

top 10 protected + Harris I agree
top 10 proctedted + Barron is tough. Barron is a lot more valuable than Harris, and we're thin on the right side

 

[Captain Mountain]

The Jets are playing themselves out of the playoffs and Dubois has 1g 2a -6 in his last 10gp... shit filet is worse with 1 assist in 8gp and -12.

Yikes

In his last 23 games (which period started with the game against the Habs in January), he has 9 points. Only 3 of those points were 5v5. This is when he usually plays with Wheeler, Perfetti and Connor. Dubois is a good player, but people need to be realistic about who Dubois is as a player.

People complain about Anderson (and Dubois is definitely better and more valuable than Anderson), but Dubois and Anderson produce at nearly the same rate 5v5 over the last 3 years.

 

[WeThreeKings]

top 10 protected + Harris I agree
top 10 proctedted + Barron is tough. Barron is a lot more valuable than Harris, and we're thin on the right side

Luckily the Habs aren't giving up anything of the sort.

 

[salbutera]

Leverage is used to drive the price down. And Offersheet with Montreal's unprotected 2024 1st at worst doesn't affect the price at all and hands leverage to Dubois, not Hughes.

Unless you know something, Chevaldayoff is not in a tear down & rebuild mode - he wants NHL ready assets that can contribute to Jets success next season not a draft pick regardless of protection in return for PLD. Especially if he’s hoping to resign Hellebuyck and/or Scheifele

Chevaldayoff will reduce asking price… guaranteed with this tactic, and spite will only get him fired.

HuGo have him by the balls and need to keep squeezing harder, and use any guerrilla tactic available at their disposal.

There was a lot of collusion that went on behind the scenes at Harvard w Adam Fox - Gorton knows how to play the game well.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Unless you know something I don’t, Chevaldayoff is not in a tear down & rebuild mode - he wants NHL ready assets that can contribute to Jets success next season not a draft pick regardless of protection in return for PLD. Especially is he’s hoping to resign Hellebuyck and/or Scheifle

Chevaldayoff will reduce asking price… guaranteed with this tactic, and spite will only get him fired.

HuGo have him by the balls and need to keep squeezing harder, and use any guerrilla tactic available at their disposal

You think Montreal's unprotected 2024 1st doesn't give Chevaldayoff more flexibility to acquire current talent than a rental Dubois? Why?

 

[Richiebottles]

I asked ChatGPT's 'Browsing' plugin to make a trade for PLD. Full convo:

Initial Prompt:
I want you to act as the general manager of the montreal canadiens hockey team. What would you trade (draft picks,players,prospects) pick any combination that seems fair for Pierre-Luc Dubois of the Winnipeg Jets? Keep in mind that Pierre Luc wants to play for the Montreal Canadiens.


ChatGPT
Finished browsing

Searched: “Pierre-Luc Dubois contract status and performance”
Searched: “Montreal Canadiens current roster and assets”
Searched: “Montreal Canadiens current roster and assets”
Clicked on:

Montreal Canadiens Roster | ESPN

Going back to last page
Clicked on:

Montreal Canadiens Depth Charts Roster and Line Projection - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Reading content
Finished browsing

ChatGPT Answer
Based on the current roster and assets of the Montreal Canadiens, a potential trade package for Pierre-Luc Dubois could include a mix of players, prospects, and draft picks. It's important to keep in mind that Dubois is on a one-year, $6-million contract and is scheduled to become a pending restricted free agent with arbitration rights, and he appears to be interested in joining the Canadiens.
As the general manager of the Montreal Canadiens, I would propose the following trade package to the Winnipeg Jets in exchange for Pierre-Luc Dubois:

1. Jonathan Drouin (C, LW, Age 28, Cap Hit: $5,500,000, UFA 2023): Drouin has experience as a top-six forward and could provide the Jets with some offensive depth.
2. Jordan Harris (LD/RD, Age 22, Cap Hit: $842,500, RFA 2025): Harris is a young and promising defenseman who could contribute to the Jets' blue line in the future.
3. A 2023 1st Round Draft Pick: The addition of a 1st round draft pick in the upcoming draft would provide the Jets with a valuable asset for their future.

It's worth noting that this is just a hypothetical trade proposal and the actual trade negotiations would involve discussions between the two teams to determine what assets would be considered fair value for Pierre-Luc Dubois. Additionally, the Canadiens would need to ensure they have the necessary salary cap space to accommodate Dubois' contract1

Montreal Canadiens Depth Charts Roster and Line Projection - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

.

Me:
Ok so Drouin isn't that good. There would need to be a better player, also keep in mind that the Jets are going into a rebuild, so they might favor a prospect. Try again


ChatGPT
Understood. Given that the Jets are entering a rebuild, they may prioritize acquiring prospects and draft picks over established players. With that in mind, here's an updated trade proposal that focuses more on prospects and future assets:

1. Jesse Ylönen (RW, LW, Age 23, Cap Hit: $880,833, RFA 2023): Ylönen is a young and skilled forward with good offensive upside. He could become a valuable part of the Jets' rebuild.
2. Justin Barron (RD, Age 21, Cap Hit: $925,000, RFA 2024): Barron is a promising young defenseman with the potential to contribute to the Jets' blue line in the coming years.
3. A 2023 1st Round Draft Pick: The inclusion of a 1st round draft pick in the upcoming draft would provide the Jets with an opportunity to add a high-end prospect to their pipeline.
4. A 2023 2nd Round Draft Pick: An additional draft pick in the 2nd round further strengthens the Jets' ability to acquire young talent in the draft.

This package focuses on providing the Winnipeg Jets with promising prospects and valuable draft picks to support their rebuild. It also ensures that the Montreal Canadiens retain key players like Nick Suzuki and maintain their competitiveness1

Montreal Canadiens Depth Charts Roster and Line Projection - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

. As always, trade negotiations would involve discussions between the two teams to determine what assets would be considered fair value for Pierre-Luc Dubois.


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Not bad!

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

In the west, if the teams is healthy and we have solid goalies I could agree.

In the East though, I think they are to much good teams and where defensive group is not enough good yet

The battle for the wildcard spots in the East has been horrible. It's like nobody really wants that playoff spot. WC1 is on pace to finish with 93 pts and WC2 is on pace to finish with 91 pts. Last year, WC2 finished with 100 pts...

 

[jaffy27]

Luckily the Habs aren't giving up anything of the sort.

Depends….if we win the lottery and draft Bedard or Fantilli….pack her up lads, the tanking is over.

I’m trading Beck, Harris, Hoffman and a 1st in 24 for Dubois fully signed.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Depends….if we win the lottery and draft Bedard or Fantilli….pack her up lads, the tanking is over.

I’m trading Beck, Harris, Hoffman and a 1st in 24 for Dubois fully signed.

There's no precedent to send a prospect of Beck's caliber in a trade for Dubois.

Trouba didn't get it.
Meier didn't get it.

Why would PLD get it?

 

[Rapala]

Well I very specifically said this is just my opinion and what I observed. And a lot of the points you made to mine if I’m being honest come across as excuses. I don’t care if your coach is a jerk, you don’t quit on your team. That’s not acceptable at any level of sports and you’d be punished for something like that in peewee. What’s he going to do when he inevitably goes threw adversity and the fans are on him here? That’s what my concern is. As for mentioning our name in negotiations, there could be a debate to be made on whether he was right or wrong but the way in which they did it was unprofessional in my opinion. He was an RFA but he’s handcuffing their options if he wasn’t happy being there long term.

How dare you.

 

[Captain Mountain]

There's no precedent to send a prospect of Beck's caliber in a trade for Dubois.

Trouba didn't get it.
Meier didn't get it.

Why would PLD get it?

The Horvat trade is what Jets fans are clinging to.

 

[salbutera]

You think Montreal's unprotected 2024 1st doesn't give Chevaldayoff more flexibility to acquire current talent than a rental Dubois? Why?

None of Scheifele, Hellebuyck or Wheeler will resign if they only see proven NHL commodities constantly leaving their team for picks & prospects. Combine that with the fact, Winter-peg is the last resort team for players with any type of trade protection let alone ability to lure UFAs.

Most importantly for the business well being of the franchise (which is the most imprtanr aspect), Chevaldayoff needs to find a way to stop the bleeding of players saying ‘no mas’ to the org - Byfuglien, Trouba, Laine and now PLD. Trading the latter for picks is a PR disaster since players talk…

Now if Chevaldayoff has received green light for rebuild, then yeah great way to kick that off.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Can't wait to see what happens if they miss the playoffs down there, not only roster changes but I would have to imagine it's time to clean house as well up there starting with Cheveldayoff

I think they value Chevy but man... Imagine if our GM traded pieces like Laine and Ros for a guy we thought we could convince to stay but he didn't? We would throw him under the bus in a heart beat.

Aside from Dubois, that core has been in place for a while now. I think Bowness got them to play better team D this year but they seem to be complacent today. I think players like Dubois, Scheifele, and Helle know what's coming cause they are not staying and then the others like Connor, Morrisey, and Ehlers know what's up as well.
Can they trade Dubois but convince Scheifele and Helle to extend this summer? Doubt it. But then, that depends on who they get for Dubois. Do they trade him for someone who has 2 RFA years of control? Maybe but then I wonder, who's that guy?

 

[jaffy27]

There's no precedent to send a prospect of Beck's caliber in a trade for Dubois.

Trouba didn't get it.
Meier didn't get it.

Why would PLD get it?

Beck, Roy, Kidney, Mesar….I mean take your pick

With a forward depth of Caufield, Suzuki, Gurianov, Anderson, Dubois, Dach, Slaf, Fantilli/Bedard, we can afford to give one up and we can start competing immediately with the emergence of Monty and our young D.

Plus you have RHP and Farrell and whoever we select with the Florida pick and the rest of the draft.

Get it done….plus Winnipeg will most certainly ask for one of them.