Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[dcyhabs]

Why are posters easily satisfied?

We have a power forward. We don't need another. We have a big C. We don't need another.

Hell, keep going. We have a sniper in Caufield. We don't need another.

Really? Why not get more than one?

More big forwards would be good. You can play them down the lineup. There is only room for one or two small, non-physical, defensively challenged snipers.

 

[HuGo Sham]

the articles that were re-posted today about PLD loving his time with MSL when he was a player development coach with Columbus in 2019, add an interesting twist to all this

 

[ReimanSum1908]

There are simply too many unknowns about this situation for us to make a definitive call but if you'd force me to choose, I'd make this offersheet.

PLD isn't a game-breaking talent -- he's only on pace for 72 pts -- but he is a good add and at that price it's a no brainer. The Habs added Dvorak for more that that ffs. More for Dach too.

I'd trade every 1st round pick of magic beans for a 70ish point player on the right side of 25.

Frankly, this attitude is what has led us into decades of mediocrity.

Dubois is just another meaningless stopgaps to get us into the playoffs in eighth place, like Plekanec, Koivu, Suzuki, et el. Fine players, but two tiers below the plethora of superstars that a team needs to actually compete for a Stanley cup.

A core of 8-9 million dollar 60 point players (which is the caliber of Dubois, at his core, having hit his prime at 24) will never let you have a sniff of the Stanley cup. Drafting a contingent of stuperstars is the only way to win a cup, rather than just floundering year after year.

We wasted this one by "winning" at the outset due to foolish offseason moves, and last year by selecting the wrong player in an already weak draft.

Stockpiling picks and working towards meaningful rebuilds, rather than overpaying players like Dubois and Suzuki by five million dollars a piece, is the only way to win.

That's not gambling on magic beans.

That's how you have any chance of building winning teams.

I for one look forward to wasting another decade with players like PLD clogging up the top lines, putting up 50-60 points, and squeaking into the playoffs for first round exits.

Genius GMing.

 

[tazsub3]

It's not only about the Habs. Imagine a contending team having around 7M in capspace offering 6.350M/1yr offer for Dubois, and Dubois accepting that offer (the last part is a stretch, but if Dubois wants out, that's one way to do it).

That would be LESS than the usual rental value for someone like him. Oh, and if the Jets match, they can't trade him.

And this is exactly why they dont hold the bargaining chip. Heck even if signed for way less and theu keep him, again that removes any trade value.
So in a way the one holding the bargaining chip is no other then him. All he has to do is accept and offer and that would make him un-tradeble till he becomes ufa.
I bet anyone win would trade him instead of putting themselves in that corner.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Frankly, this attitude is what has led us into decades of mediocrity.

Dubois is just another meaningless stopgaps to get us into the playoffs in eighth place, like Plekanec, Koivu, Suzuki, et el. Fine players, but two tiers below the plethora of superstars that a team needs to actually compete for a Stanley cup.

A core of 8-9 million dollar 60 point players (which is the caliber of Dubois, at his core, having hit his prime at 24) will never let you have a sniff of the Stanley cup. Drafting a contingent of stuperstars is the only way to win a cup, rather than just floundering year after year.

We wasted this one by "winning" at the outset due to foolish offseason moves, and last year by selecting the wrong player in an already weak draft.

Stockpiling picks and working towards meaningful rebuilds, rather than overpaying players like Dubois and Suzuki by five million dollars a piece, is the only way to win.

That's not gambling on magic beans.

That's how you have any chance of building winning teams.

I for one look forward to wasting another decade with players like PLD clogging up the top lines, putting up 50-60 points, and squeaking into the playoffs for first round exits.

Genius GMing.

Even though I disagree with much of your take, such as thinking Suzuki and Dubois should be $3M cap hits, I realized that you were saying we can sqweak into the playoffs with the team we have now plus Dubois! If Dubois and Caufield make the same salary as Suzuki, that leaves us lots of money to add a top RHD and a starting goalie, and still carry Armia and Gallagher to term.

Dubois is not the final piece to a contending team, he is just another building block. Add to that our 1st round pick from 2023, and if Slafkovsky progresses, I see the following team by 24-25

10 strong players plus five chances at the 11th:
Caufield
Matheson
Dach
Suzuki
Dubois
Guhle
Slafkovsky
2023 1st (Smith?)
$9M RHD
$6.5M goalie

+ one of Farrell, Heineman, Roy, Anderson, Gurianov or Kidney

This can be a contending team in 2 more years. Dubois plays a role without needing to be a saviour.

 

[Scriptor]

You said the only way we trade for PLD is with an extension in place.
If you already know that PLD will extend for $7.5 million/year, then just wait and sign him for that in 2024.
If PLD is the type to take that offer to play in his hometown now, he will do so next year.
To change his mind halfway through the year would be completely inconsistent with the premise that he would agree to a reasonable sign-and-trade. If he's going to chase money he'll do it regardless, and if he wants to come home he'll do it regardless.

I don't understand how some of you argue this from both sides. "He'll agree to a sign-and-trade for under $8 million now, but if we wait he'll chase $10 million in UFA" is a position that makes little sense. His desire to play for the Habs is well documented and he either prioritizes getting top dollar over that or he doesn't, just wait a year and you'll find out which it is.

The only reason for a team in our position to expedite this and trade for him now would be to secure his services for next year. This is useless to us as we suck and will not be competing for a playoff spot next year. Adding PLD changes nothing.

If he wanted to go to Boston and only Boston, I could see them trading for him early to get him for next year where they will actually have a use for him in their pursuit of the cup. They'd probably be trading first round picks for rentals anyway, so why not now.

But this is not the position we find ourselves in at all.

I can't explain it to you, then, because it has been explained by others in this thread repeatedly. I read those explanations and they were pretty straightforward. Your inability to comprehend some concepts seems to be at play.

 

[Scriptor]

Wishful thinking,

Kent has zero power,

Peg has other teams to deal with

Peg are going to want roster players, not useless draft picks,

If you don't want to part with Suzuki, Dach, or Caufield, then a trade isn't happening

Keep repeating it to yourself. It mind find more traction inside your mind, but outside your head, this is rubbish.

 

[Scriptor]

Frankly, this attitude is what has led us into decades of mediocrity.

Dubois is just another meaningless stopgaps to get us into the playoffs in eighth place, like Plekanec, Koivu, Suzuki, et el. Fine players, but two tiers below the plethora of superstars that a team needs to actually compete for a Stanley cup.

A core of 8-9 million dollar 60 point players (which is the caliber of Dubois, at his core, having hit his prime at 24) will never let you have a sniff of the Stanley cup. Drafting a contingent of stuperstars is the only way to win a cup, rather than just floundering year after year.

We wasted this one by "winning" at the outset due to foolish offseason moves, and last year by selecting the wrong player in an already weak draft.

Stockpiling picks and working towards meaningful rebuilds, rather than overpaying players like Dubois and Suzuki by five million dollars a piece, is the only way to win.

That's not gambling on magic beans.

That's how you have any chance of building winning teams.

I for one look forward to wasting another decade with players like PLD clogging up the top lines, putting up 50-60 points, and squeaking into the playoffs for first round exits.

Genius GMing.

This is either a silly take or a heavily biased take against Dubois.

At 24 and entering his prime, he's playing 8 of his best NHL years on a long term contract.

Stop gap? How the bleep is that stop-gap?

And, assuming he is stuck in time at 60 points is ridiculous.

Your overpaying Suzuki and Dubois by 5M is the cherry on top of idiotic statements.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Frankly, this attitude is what has led us into decades of mediocrity.

Dubois is just another meaningless stopgaps to get us into the playoffs in eighth place, like Plekanec, Koivu, Suzuki, et el. Fine players, but two tiers below the plethora of superstars that a team needs to actually compete for a Stanley cup.

A core of 8-9 million dollar 60 point players (which is the caliber of Dubois, at his core, having hit his prime at 24) will never let you have a sniff of the Stanley cup. Drafting a contingent of stuperstars is the only way to win a cup, rather than just floundering year after year.

We wasted this one by "winning" at the outset due to foolish offseason moves, and last year by selecting the wrong player in an already weak draft.

Stockpiling picks and working towards meaningful rebuilds, rather than overpaying players like Dubois and Suzuki by five million dollars a piece, is the only way to win.

That's not gambling on magic beans.

That's how you have any chance of building winning teams.

I for one look forward to wasting another decade with players like PLD clogging up the top lines, putting up 50-60 points, and squeaking into the playoffs for first round exits.

Genius GMing.

Well said. Even if I don't agree with every little thing, this articulates my, and I assume other's, reluctance in this Dubois hoopla.

 

[Heffyhoof]

This is either a silly take or a heavily biased take against Dubois.

At 24 and entering his prime, he's playing 8 of his best NHL years on a long term contract.

Stop gap? How the bleep is that stop-gap?

And, assuming he is stuck in time at 60 points is ridiculous.

Your overpaying Suzuki and Dubois by 5M is the cherry on top of idiotic statements.

You know, someone is capable of having a different opinion than yourself without being 'silly, heavily biased, ridiculous, or idiotic'. Perhaps he was injecting a bit of hyperbole with the 5m which basically every single other poster does.

 

[ReHabs]

Well, Bergevin was stupid on the Dvorak trade. That doesn't mean we should go double or nothing.

We'll see what happens.

Most contending teams approach first round picks like they’re a means to an end. I know we are rebuilding but a mid-round 1st round pick + 3rd round pick is really not much value going out the door in exchange for a 25 year old 6’4” first line forward.

Even as a value trade we would come ahead.

I was against the Dach trade at the time it was made because I felt the downside risk was too high. That reason doesn’t exist for PLD, he doesn’t have a history of bad injuries or ultra-low production.

What’s your thinking on this to compare him to Dvorak?

Losing Dubois for nothing next summer is not really a card per se.

And as for the Jets’ actual cards - trading him this summer or at TDL 2024 - they basically amount to the same value for any teams besides the Habs, namely the price of a one-year rental (late 1st + A prospect).

The Habs have plenty of cards.

They can play hardball and say they’ll wait for Dubois’ UFA status next summer.

They can mitigate the risk of waiting for 2024 by offer-sheeting Dubois to a 1 year deal to make sure he doesn’t go elsewhere than Montreal or Winnipeg next season.

Most importantly, the Habs also have plenty of expendable assets for a quality vs quantity trade to make it interesting for Winnipeg, whatever the Jets elect to do (contend/retool, ie) next year: around 27 players that can play in the NHL ; a plethora of prospects, plenty of draft capital as well.

If the decisions are with WPG, then they hold the cards.

And deciding to hold onto him to try to compete for one more playoffs is very much a normal decision for a team that’s competitive. It would be foolish and potentially destructive to morale if they tried to optimize their draft pick choices in exchange for punting on a playoffs. It wouldn’t go well with any fanbase.

If they’re really sputtering next year, then yes absolutely they would sell not just PLD but a few of their older pending FAs in a firesale bonanza.

It depends on their performance and outlook. That’s why they hold the cards.

 

[nhlfan9191]

This is either a silly take or a heavily biased take against Dubois.

At 24 and entering his prime, he's playing 8 of his best NHL years on a long term contract.

Stop gap? How the bleep is that stop-gap?

And, assuming he is stuck in time at 60 points is ridiculous.

Your overpaying Suzuki and Dubois by 5M is the cherry on top of idiotic statements.

Stop gap is the wrong terminology in the post you’re replying to but he’s right about the cap management. Dubois is a good player, but you don’t win anything having a lot of cap tied into 60-70 point players. Dubois isn’t a star, and paying him like he’s one is counterproductive. I think Suzuki is paid accordingly. Defensively very sound and can also chip in offensively. I have a hard time paying someone like Dubois much more even with inflation. Most contracts like Suzuki’s are prorated with cap inflation in mind when they’re signed so I don’t think there’s a big justification for Dubois to get paid more.

 

[ReHabs]

Frankly, this attitude is what has led us into decades of mediocrity.

The Habs under Bergevin never once acquired a top line player in exchange for a first round pick. Bergevin clutched onto his first round picks with an icy cold grip and we got nothing out of it — just the squandered opportunity to compete with Carey Price, & Subban/Weber.

In fact, the only first round pick Bergevin traded was for Dvorak. A terrible trade for a mediocre player.

PLD is much better than Dvorak even if he isn’t himself a PPG player.

I don’t see the comparison whatsoever.

Dubois is just another meaningless stopgaps to get us into the playoffs in eighth place, like Plekanec, Koivu, Suzuki, et el. Fine players, but two tiers below the plethora of superstars that a team needs to actually compete for a Stanley cup.

These players are fine players. They needed more talent to work with and around (and behind) and never got it because of how conservative and backward the Habs organization has been.

We all want superstars. Mid first round picks don’t typically get superstars. Just look at our own draft history or any team in the league.

It’s magic beans vs the primes of Caufield and Suzuki. It’s not fair to Caufield and Suzuki to squander their primes while huddled around a pile of dirt waiting for magic beans to thrust out and carry the team.

A core of 8-9 million dollar 60 point players (which is the caliber of Dubois, at his core, having hit his prime at 24) will never let you have a sniff of the Stanley cup. Drafting a contingent of stuperstars is the only way to win a cup, rather than just floundering year after year.

If we were talking about trading the 2023 1OA for Dubois you’d have a point. But we’re not…

This is very simply a hockey trade to improve our team’s core. Even a 60 pt player would be a net addition, just look at our roster!

We wasted this one by "winning" at the outset due to foolish offseason moves, and last year by selecting the wrong player in an already weak draft.


Stockpiling picks and working towards meaningful rebuilds, rather than overpaying players like Dubois and Suzuki by five million dollars a piece, is the only way to win.

That's not gambling on magic beans.

That's how you have any chance of building winning teams.

I for one look forward to wasting another decade with players like PLD clogging up the top lines, putting up 50-60 points, and squeaking into the playoffs for first round exits.

Genius GMing.

You previously said that Gallagher was a top-line player. PLD is a better, more robust Gallagher.

We can agree that the current roster is not bad enough to draft top5 — despite a catastrophic number of injuries and despite next to nothing in the way of scoring depth this team is still not bad enough to draft top5. Despite starting the season with four rookies on defence. Despite having zero centre depth. They are still not going to draft top5.

I think some of you need to accept reality — we won’t be drafting top5 next year or the year after that.

So it’s either add to the core and build upward or keep spinning our wheels in mediocrity while clutching magic beans with an icy grip.

A first and third round pick for a 60+pt 6’4” player is cheap. First round picks are pretty much worthless to a competing team.

 

[ReHabs]

Stop gap is the wrong terminology in the post you’re replying to but he’s right about the cap management. Dubois is a good player, but you don’t win anything having a lot of cap tied into 60-70 point players. Dubois isn’t a star, and paying him like he’s one is counterproductive. I think Suzuki is paid accordingly. Defensively very sound and can also chip in offensively. I have a hard time paying someone like Dubois much more even with inflation. Most contracts like Suzuki’s are prorated with cap inflation in mind when they’re signed so I don’t think there’s a big justification for Dubois to get paid more.

The cap management aspect is a fair concern but the Habs have so many bad contracts it makes me laugh to see people get worked up about paying PLD his actual value.

The cap is going to go up big time soon.
PLD would get a 8m cap hit no matter what (give it take a million).
His player profile gets hockey people to drool.
Unless he’s a catastrophic Drouin-like injury prone, mentally unwell failure, he will always have trade value to redeem that paltry 1st+3rd acquisition price.

We have no other players who are pacing to be paid 8m a year next year or the one after that. I don’t see the concern, frankly… and I’m not even a Dubois-at-all-costs sort of person. It just seems like a good addition to what we ought to be building.

 

[Scriptor]

You know, someone is capable of having a different opinion than yourself without being 'silly, heavily biased, ridiculous, or idiotic'. Perhaps he was injecting a bit of hyperbole with the 5m which basically every single other poster does.

Nothing makes sense from what he said.

I'm willing to allow for another opinion, but not for nonsense. Signing a 24-yr-old to a long term contract that makes him part of your young core is the furthest thing from a stop gap move.

Going after a 31-yr old veteran on the UFA front is a stop-gap move.

After that, you let go because the poster is saying anything to support what is obviously a bias.

It's that, or the poster doesn't understand the words being used. You pick...

Others have the opinion that Dubois should not be the target for Hughes and make their point that they don't want to risk losing assets for this player. Don't agree, but its's not pure folly.

Thos post I was responding to is pure folly, with a little hyperbole thrown in at the end, if you want.

 

[ReHabs]

You know, someone is capable of having a different opinion than yourself without being 'silly, heavily biased, ridiculous, or idiotic'. Perhaps he was injecting a bit of hyperbole with the 5m which basically every single other poster does.

What is a stopgap?

A frivolous, worthless chunk of an item used to plug holes. They’re not cherished or sophisticated, and by definition they’re replaceable.

Even if that user (who posts good comments generally) had simply used the wrong word the concept and approach is also wrong. Koi I was not a stopgap… he played for the Habs for over a decade.

If every player we have is in the way for the glorious superstar-laden future then sure, they’re all stopgaps. But there is no candy mountain coming up down the road and the magic beans won’t sprout into anything special. It’s not right to expect superstars to come out of the blue. Hell, even with one of the best players in NHL history EDM are only barely competing for playoff spots. The teams huddled over magic beans like BUF and ARI are still nowhere.

Our roster will not be bad enough for top5 next year. It’s sad for many draft aficionados and sad for those of us who really do want to see terrific prospects picked up by the Habs. There is nothing we can do. Not even this year’s catastrophic injuries could suppress the pt% enough to be in prime position to land Bedard.

 

[Scriptor]

Stop gap is the wrong terminology in the post you’re replying to but he’s right about the cap management. Dubois is a good player, but you don’t win anything having a lot of cap tied into 60-70 point players. Dubois isn’t a star, and paying him like he’s one is counterproductive. I think Suzuki is paid accordingly. Defensively very sound and can also chip in offensively. I have a hard time paying someone like Dubois much more even with inflation. Most contracts like Suzuki’s are prorated with cap inflation in mind when they’re signed so I don’t think there’s a big justification for Dubois to get paid more.

If Dubois trends towards 70 point seasons, which, as a 24-year old entering his prime, in all likelihood, he should, he becomes a top 25-30 C in this league.

If Suzuki, a year younger than Dubois and already bettering Dubois' career year, on a weak team with little depth as support, becomes a PPG pivot throughout his prime, which I reasonably believe he will, he's a top-20 C in this league.

A top-20 C and a top 25-30 C at around 8M, as your 1-2 punch down the middle, I don't think that this is tying up inordinate amounts of cap space for what production they bring in their prime.

As far as keeping the Cap figure down with Dubois and Canfield, for that matter, a rich team like Montreal can structure the contracts in a fashion too make the net tax take-home of the contract higher than the actual AAV towards the Cap, on top of making it comparable to or more advantageous than the vast majority of other NHL markets.

I've explained the mechanics in depth in a prior post, so I won't go into the specifics again.

I understand the point the poster is trying to make, but I believe that, in this case, the argument is off the mark.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

You're saying crazy stuff. No pick outside of Bedard, Fantilli or *maybe* Carlsson is expected to play in the NHL next year. So no, no "support role" there.

Caufield is getting back from labrum surgery. Took 2 years for Anderson to get back where he was. Dach, well, let's wait for him to get 60 points before saying he's an "impact" player.

Look at the Eastern Conference. It's stacked. Even if things go smooth and Montreal has NO INJURIES, they're at best middle of the pack... AT BEST. Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, will all get better next year. The Atlantic will be a blood bath.

We're going to finish bottom 5 in the league and you expect to get a bump of more than +10 in the rankings. This is totally unrealistic.

I laughed at Anderson part. Dude was going to up with like 35-36 points this year with top minutes with Suzuki or Dach.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Using the FLA pick as part of the pkg hurts the rebuild. Hughes wanted 3 x 1sts this year and will end up with 1.
We will be competing for a playoff spot next year with Dubois on team so no more high picks.
Are our prospects good enough to bring us to the promise land?
I don’t think so - I think we need another tank year which doesn’t happen with Dubois.

No goalies no defense. Yeah about that . Farming points in meaningful hockey and competing in q playoff spots are completely different.

 

[nhlfan9191]

The cap management aspect is a fair concern but the Habs have so many bad contracts it makes me laugh to see people get worked up about paying PLD his actual value.

The cap is going to go up big time soon.
PLD would get a 8m cap hit no matter what (give it take a million).
His player profile gets hockey people to drool.
Unless he’s a catastrophic Drouin-like injury prone, mentally unwell failure, he will always have trade value to redeem that paltry 1st+3rd acquisition price.

We have no other players who are pacing to be paid 8m a year next year or the one after that. I don’t see the concern, frankly… and I’m not even a Dubois-at-all-costs sort of person. It just seems like a good addition to what we ought to be building.

I’ll give a very unpopular opinion but it’s just that, my opinion. I’m not huge on acquiring Dubois at all. It’s grown on me a bit and I won’t be upset if it happens, but I won’t lose a link of sleep if we go another direction either. I did not like how he departed from Columbus, and I didn’t like how both himself and his agent tried to force Winnipeg’s hand by publicly mentioning our teams name while his rights were still owned by them. Those to me just scream unprofessional and we know that unprofessional players mix like gas and fire in Montreal. His disappearing act down the stretch with Winnipeg fighting for a playoff spot is concerning for me as well. If we are going to acquire this guy, the acquisition price and contract need to be right and not an overpayment. That’s just my two cents. I could end up being very wrong in the end and he does become an important part of our core.

 

[ReHabs]

I’ll give a very unpopular opinion but it’s just that, my opinion. I’m not huge on acquiring Dubois at all. It’s grown on me a bit and I won’t be upset if it happens, but I won’t lose a link of sleep if we go another direction either. I did not like how he departed from Columbus, and I didn’t like how both himself and his agent tried to force Winnipeg’s hand by publicly mentioning our teams name while his rights were still owned by them. Those to me just scream unprofessional and we know that unprofessional players mix like gas and fire in Montreal. His disappearing act down the stretch with Winnipeg fighting for a playoff spot is concerning for me as well. If we are going to acquire this guy, the acquisition price and contract need to be right and not an overpayment. That’s just my two cents. I could end up being very wrong in the end and he does become an important part of our core.

I couldn’t care less about how he left one of the worst organizations in hockey (CBJ) or one of the least habitable cities in North America (WPG). But if your fear is that he might be unprofessional, then sure that’s fair enough. I don’t see it, personally, but we all have different thresholds.

His drying up down the stretch is a valid cause for concern. I’ll give you that. But Suzuki dried up too. I don’t think it reflects on a player’s character, really.

Certainly the price has to be right — a first and third round pick is quite cheap. Would be an awesome addition at a low price, actually.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I couldn’t care less about how he left one of the worst organizations in hockey (CBJ) or one of the least habitable cities in North America (WPG). But if your fear is that he might be unprofessional, then sure that’s fair enough. I don’t see it, personally, but we all have different thresholds.

His drying up down the stretch is a valid cause for concern. I’ll give you that. But Suzuki dried up too. I don’t think it reflects on a player’s character, really.

Certainly the price has to be right — a first and third round pick is quite cheap. Would be an awesome addition at a low price, actually.

I think the reason Suzuki’s slump never bothered me is because he did so much heavy lifting the first half of the season, it would be reasonable to expect he would burn out a bit. We also didn’t have the option of switching things up for him with other productive players when things weren’t going well because our team is so poor. I don’t know the full reason behind Dubois’s drop in production, but you would think a playoff team that has a player worth $8-9-10 million dollars would be using him in all situations and with their best players if they need wins.

 

[Scriptor]

I’ll give a very unpopular opinion but it’s just that, my opinion. I’m not huge on acquiring Dubois at all. It’s grown on me a bit and I won’t be upset if it happens, but I won’t lose a link of sleep if we go another direction either. I did not like how he departed from Columbus, and I didn’t like how both himself and his agent tried to force Winnipeg’s hand by publicly mentioning our teams name while his rights were still owned by them. Those to me just scream unprofessional and we know that unprofessional players mix like gas and fire in Montreal. His disappearing act down the stretch with Winnipeg fighting for a playoff spot is concerning for me as well. If we are going to acquire this guy, the acquisition price and contract need to be right and not an overpayment. That’s just my two cents. I could end up being very wrong in the end and he does become an important part of our core.

Really? Where did you pick up all this negative spin on Dubois? Was it your own, acquired after hearing it from some there person?

1) Tortorella was humiliating and shaming Dubois publicly. PLD wasn't the first not to buy into such treatment and, IMHO, rightfully so.

Ironically, St-Louis is a big fan of Torts, although it's not clear he's a big fan of his entire approach, especially when it comes to calling out players publicly?

I can understand Dubois asking for a trade away from Columbus. There's no reason why he should have shut his hole and endured Tortorella's treatment.

2) Prior to Winnipeg trading Laine and Roslovic to Columbus in order to acquire Dubois, the player let WIN know, privately, that he would not be signing past his RFA years with the team.

Yet, like in most relationships, WIN wrongly considered they could change Dubois' mind, likely because his Dad was associated with the team?

3) WIN made it public that Dubois was not interested in signing with them beyond his RFA years, not Dubois, when they publicly offered him a long term contract. Dubois only stuck to his guns and what he had privately shared with WIN before the trade.

4) Yes, Brisson publicly said that Dubois would one day like to play for Montreal, but he was responding to a direct question and the player was not signed to a deal with WIN at the time. While he was restricted as such, he was, nonetheless, a Free Agent until he had signed a new contract with WIN. The NHL never questioned Brisson's statements regarding either their legal or ethical nature.

5) Without holding out on the team, Dubois didn't bend WIN over a barrel in trying to negotiate a particularly lucrative 1 yr deal with the team. He accepted a standard qualifying offer and did not take the team to arbitration either. Talking a one-year deal was risky for the player in case of serious injury, but it fairly offered more avenues for WIN to move Dubois before he became an UFA.

6) With a signed contract, publicly, he refused to field questions about his future as an UFA and downplayed all the hype surrounding Montreal as a clear destination for him, preferring to keep the focus on the team and their attempt to make the playoffs and have a long push once in the postseason.

I'd argue that Dubois has rather been nothing but professional with WIN and that their Gm mishandled the situation from the get-go when he went through with the trade.

7) The disappearing act down the stretch is not limited to Dubois' offensive production. It seems widespread, where a team filled with talented players is poorly looking for answers through individualistic play.

Only Morrissey hs maintained a PPG pace over the last ten games. Every other marquis player has taken a hit in production.

While, as always, some of the blame oies with the players, including Dubois, the coaching staff also appears at loss for answers.

It has also been rumoured that Dubois is plying through an injury to try and help the team stay within playoff contention.

Dubois is no saint, I'm sure and, no, he isn't a saviour, by any means, and that shouldn't be the litmus test he is measured by either.

However, Dubois' profile is one sought after by every GM in the league for a 2nd line, two-way C that brings physicality and skill tot he table.

Even the Oilers would take aa Dubois as a 2nd line C, if only in order to play Draisaitl with Mc Jesus regularly and, possibly, to play Nugent-Hiopkins on wing with the second line, or to use him as a 3rd line C.

Dubois is a desirable asset league wide, and not just in Montreal because of the francophone ring to his name and the francophone roots in the province.

Fans are entitled to dislike the player, but I have yet to hear a good narrative explaining why the addition of Dubois would be bad for the team.

 

[Scriptor]

I think the reason Suzuki’s slump never bothered me is because he did so much heavy lifting the first half of the season, it would be reasonable to expect he would burn out a bit. We also didn’t have the option of switching things up for him with other productive players when things weren’t going well because our team is so poor. I don’t know the full reason behind Dubois’s drop in production, but you would think a playoff team that has a player worth $8-9-10 million dollars would be using him in all situations and with their best players if they need wins.

1) Injury to Sean Monahan (who never really recovered), essentially making the Habs a one-line team and focusing all the opponents' defensive attention on Suzuki and his line.

2) Season ending surgery to Cole Caufield that robbed him of his best trigger man.

3) The injury to Dach that removed what was left of a semblance of higher end skill to fill out the top-six. Thankfully, down the stretch, RHP eventually stepped up to add solid positioning, all out effort and some offensive skill.

3) The lack of overall depth to replace fallen soldiers putting many players in the wrong chairs.

4) St-Louis, for lack of talented depth, over exploiting Suzuki with Twenty-Three minutes a night.

These are four solid reasons, I think, why Suzuki slowed down for a stretch of the season nearer to its end.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Really? Where did you pick up all this negative spin on Dubois? Was it your own, acquired after hearing it from some there person?

1) Tortorella was humiliating and shaming Dubois publicly. PLD wasn't the first not to buy into such treatment and, IMHO, rightfully so.

Ironically, St-Louis is a big fan of Torts, although it's not clear he's a big fan of his entire approach, especially when it comes to calling out players publicly?

I can understand Dubois asking for a trade away from Columbus. There's no reason why he should have shut his hole and endured Tortorella's treatment.

2) Prior to Winnipeg trading Laine and Roslovic to Columbus in order to acquire Dubois, the player let WIN know, privately, that he would not be signing past his RFA years with the team.

Yet, like in most relationships, WIN wrongly considered they could change Dubois' mind, likely because his Dad was associated with the team?

3) WIN made it public that Dubois was not interested in signing with them beyond his RFA years, not Dubois, when they publicly offered him a long term contract. Dubois only stuck to his guns and what he had privately shared with WIN before the trade.

4) Yes, Brisson publicly said that Dubois would one day like to play for Montreal, but he was responding to a direct question and the player was not signed to a deal with WIN at the time. While he was restricted as such, he was, nonetheless, a Free Agent until he had signed a new contract with WIN. The NHL never questioned Brisson's statements regarding either their legal or ethical nature.

5) Without holding out on the team, Dubois didn't bend WIN over a barrel in trying to negotiate a particularly lucrative 1 yr deal with the team. He accepted a standard qualifying offer and did not take the team to arbitration either. Talking a one-year deal was risky for the player in case of serious injury, but it fairly offered more avenues for WIN to move Dubois before he became an UFA.

6) With a signed contract, publicly, he refused to field questions about his future as an UFA and downplayed all the hype surrounding Montreal as a clear destination for him, preferring to keep the focus on the team and their attempt to make the playoffs and have a long push once in the postseason.

I'd argue that Dubois has rather been nothing but professional with WIN and that their Gm mishandled the situation from the get-go when he went through with the trade.

7) The disappearing act down the stretch is not limited to Dubois' offensive production. It seems widespread, where a team filled with talented players is poorly looking for answers through individualistic play.

Only Morrissey hs maintained a PPG pace over the last ten games. Every other marquis player has taken a hit in production.

While, as always, some of the blame oies with the players, including Dubois, the coaching staff also appears at loss for answers.

It has also been rumoured that Dubois is plying through an injury to try and help the team stay within playoff contention.

Dubois is no saint, I'm sure and, no, he isn't a saviour, by any means, and that shouldn't be the litmus test he is measured by either.

However, Dubois' profile is one sought after by every GM in the league for a 2nd line, two-way C that brings physicality and skill tot he table.

Even the Oilers would take aa Dubois as a 2nd line C, if only in order to play Draisaitl with Mc Jesus regularly and, possibly, to play Nugent-Hiopkins on wing with the second line, or to use him as a 3rd line C.

Dubois is a desirable asset league wide, and not just in Montreal because of the francophone ring to his name and the francophone roots in the province.

Fans are entitled to dislike the player, but I have yet to hear a good narrative explaining why the addition of Dubois would be bad for the team.

Well I very specifically said this is just my opinion and what I observed. And a lot of the points you made to mine if I’m being honest come across as excuses. I don’t care if your coach is a jerk, you don’t quit on your team. That’s not acceptable at any level of sports and you’d be punished for something like that in peewee. What’s he going to do when he inevitably goes threw adversity and the fans are on him here? That’s what my concern is. As for mentioning our name in negotiations, there could be a debate to be made on whether he was right or wrong but the way in which they did it was unprofessional in my opinion. He was an RFA but he’s handcuffing their options if he wasn’t happy being there long term.