Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[SwiftyHab]

We 100% can if we want to. We can throw two of Harris, Barron, Xhekaj, Norlinder, etc. into a package without hurting too much. Plus vets/ cap dumps like Hoffman, Dvorak, Anderson, Allen,etc. Plenty of picks to play with as well. We have the assets, it's a matter of wanting the guy bad enough.

If HuGo doesn’t take the risk on PLD, does he become more risk-acceptant with Michkov? Or is he going to play this all conservatively ?

 

[Andrei79]

Because he's not only interested in MTL

LA is high on his list too

LA makes a ton of sense. They have the assets and he'd be a great fit there.

 

[Redux91]

It doesn't matter whether they are at the same level now because the context around the signing matters. Suzuki signed his deal after that SC run, and yeah Price was the biggest reason but Suzuki still went up against other teams top guys and came out looking good. And that's on top of his previous year where he also went up against star centers and looked good. Dubois's playoffs haven't looked anywhere near as good even if there have been a few good moments.

And again Suuki wasn't signed as a 60-70 point player he was signed as 60-70 point player who could potentially be a PPG player. The context for Dubois is a player whose production has mostly plateaued, his production has been stable in that a 60-70 point range for a number of years now, there's very little paying for potential with his contract.

So there are factors that push Dubois into having a higher salary and factors that push him into having a lower one.

You make it sound like Dubois is 30 my god lmao
He is 24.
Nick Suzuki is 23.

They both have amazing years to look forward to.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

If HuGo doesn’t take the risk on PLD, does he become more risk-acceptant with Michkov? Or is he going to play this all conservatively ?

Very different types of risks IMO. I don't see much of a link.

 

[Runner77]

So your answer is no? You would not do Florida 1st + Beck?

Nope. We can get Hrabal with that Florida 1st and that’s a crying need. Also, that’s one constraining hypothetical — I’m sure we can use other pieces before it came to that.

I would however give up the FLA 1st if some of our other players were involved (players that have upside but who are redundant for us or come from a position of organizational strength).

But hey, I’m just a fan, I’ll defer to the pros.

 

[waitin425]

Nope. We can get Hrabal with that Florida 1st and that’s a crying need.

But hey, I’m just a fan, I’ll defer to the pros.

Just a fan who makes great GDT's! Don't sell yourself short!

I'm making that trade all day every day. Then taking Hrabel at 37!

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I could see Dubois being interested in LA, and LA does have some pieces that could interest the jets (Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari, Kaliyev)

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

LA makes a ton of sense. They have the assets and he'd be a great fit there.

But do they have the cap space. Think they are 76 mill with 17 players signed

 

[Adam Michaels]

This reminds me of.....

I doubt anyone goes around pointing this out and saying Ovechkin dogs it.

 

[Runner77]

Just a fan who makes great GDT's! Don't sell yourself short!

I'm making that trade all day every day. Then taking Hrabel at 37!

I was editing my post while you answered but I’ll live with it, if Hughes thinks Beck should be sacrificed. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[waitin425]

I doubt anyone goes around pointing this out and saying Ovechkin dogs it.

Exactly

 

[Adam Michaels]

But do they have the cap space. Think they are 76 mill with 17 players signed

There will surely be money going the other way. Jets aren't only going to take picks and prospects. They'll want one or two roster players, too.

It's been mentioned that Jets are not interested in a rebuild. So they would want some of the pieces coming in to be players that can play for them right away.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

There will surely be money going the other way. Jets aren't only going to take picks and prospects. They'll want one or two roster players, too.

It's been mentioned that Jets are not interested in a rebuild. So they would want some of the pieces coming in to be players that can play for them right away.

Fair but its likely its a guy like Vilardi who isnt factored in that current cap and if LA is wanting be better then it wont be core pieces

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Captain Serious? More like Captain Lazy

 

[EveryDay]

There will surely be money going the other way. Jets aren't only going to take picks and prospects. They'll want one or two roster players, too.

It's been mentioned that Jets are not interested in a rebuild. So they would want some of the pieces coming in to be players that can play for them right away.

I don't know how they can do it if PLD cost 8M per year.

WIth Clarke(850k) + number 7th D(800K) + backup( 800k) + Vilardi(3M?) + forward 13th( 800K) they ahve around 1M left in cap space if everyone except Vilardi are going at league minimum.

Who can they trade to free up 8M? Vilardi + Gavrikov?

 

[Adam Michaels]

I was editing my post while you answered but I’ll live with it, if Hughes thinks Beck should be sacrificed. Thanks for the kind words.

I'm not going to hold up the deal up for Beck. I'd rather trade some other prospects before him, but if they want one of our top prospects in the deal (because the FLA pick is 31st or 32nd, so you need to attach a higher-tier prospect to make the deal enticing), I won't hold everything up for Beck.

Because Habs already have Suzuki. They also have Dach. And they would be adding PLD in such a deal. They still have Evans. Maybe they bring Monahan back for a year. Your center position is in a good spot to where they can potentially use Beck in such a deal.

I also didn't bring up Dvorak because I do believe he'd be in the deal, as well.

 

[McGees]

Hate to break it to you guys, but every time we compete against another team for a player, it seems like we lose out. Hope it's not the case here.

Nope. We NAILED the Alzner free agent singing. Boom. Champs. Us. LFG.

 

[OnTheRun]

There will surely be money going the other way. Jets aren't only going to take picks and prospects. They'll want one or two roster players, too.

It's been mentioned that Jets are not interested in a rebuild. So they would want some of the pieces coming in to be players that can play for them right away.

Things changed a bit in the last 2 weeks in Winterpeg. Hellebuyck and Flander are probably on their way out too. Dunno if they are still dead set as before about not going for a rebuild, because right now they pretty much forced into a retool at the very least.

 

[salbutera]

I never understood why we have to factor in other teams mistakes when it comes to salary. Neither Hertl nor Barzal are worth 9 million dollars. When HuGo negotiates there is no reason he wouldn't bring this up. People keep forgetting this main point which I constantly argued with the Caufield dossier. The market here is determined by our management period. The thing we all need to look at is how much will Dubois be worth to The Montreal Canadiens? My best guess is not more than our Captain which was what I also believed in Caufield's case.

NHL contracts for those approaching UFA is always based on comparables from across the league unless said player is willing to take a hometown discount, which BTW never happens except with players approaching retirement (Lidstrom, Bergeron etc)

Comparables is the basis of argument in front of an arbitrator and thus becomes the basis of negotiation combined with a players maximum leverage position between 12-18 months from UFA

 

[Scriptor]

There will surely be money going the other way. Jets aren't only going to take picks and prospects. They'll want one or two roster players, too.

It's been mentioned that Jets are not interested in a rebuild. So they would want some of the pieces coming in to be players that can play for them right away.

I really don't care if the Jets aren't interested in a rebuild. With Hellebuyck now also refusing to re-sign there, it could have an impact on both Scheifele and Wheeler and Niederietter all choosing to re-sign there ask well.

WIN might be rebuilding, whether they like it or not, with Ehlers and Connor being the only ones that are still around come the end of next season, at the latest.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Things changed a bit in the last 2 weeks in Winterpeg. Hellebuyck and Flander are probably on their way out too. Dunno if they are still dead set as before about not going for a rebuild, because right now they pretty much forced into a retool at the very least.

The reports that Jets aren't really interested in a rebuild was even with the possibilities of Hellebuyck and Scheifele, as well as possibly Wheeler being traded. The first two both being a year away from UFA.

All of them can bring in roster players, as well as picks and prospects. Jets would be able to get a little bit of everything with these assets.

The whole "not willing to rebuild" wasn't limited to PLD only.

 

[Hannibal]

Man it will suck if we loose on Dubois.

 

[The Great Weal]

Unless I'm missing something, how does LA even afford him and a goalie? If it was the year after, Kopitar's 10 million comes off the books which makes sense, but as of now, I don't see it.

Our value for PLD got completely screwed with the Panthers run past the 2nd round.

 

[Runner77]

I'm not going to hold up the deal up for Beck. I'd rather trade some other prospects before him, but if they want one of our top prospects in the deal (because the FLA pick is 31st or 32nd, so you need to attach a higher-tier prospect to make the deal enticing), I won't hold everything up for Beck.

Because Habs already have Suzuki. They also have Dach. And they would be adding PLD in such a deal. They still have Evans. Maybe they bring Monahan back for a year. Your center position is in a good spot to where they can potentially use Beck in such a deal.

I also didn't bring up Dvorak because I do believe he'd be in the deal, as well.

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, GM Michaels!

I have to agree that Beck and the FLA 1st is not a very high price to pay. I wrote my reply as a Beck fan which of course is not the way any deal should be viewed. I was also consistent in not wanting to expend assets in a rebuilding phase as I voted to wait for Dubois to become a UFA. Hughes himself is on record from last week’s presser about not looking to acquire assets that can help now and Dubois certainly fits that.

I love that Beck has certain highly desirable attributes and could become a key component of a winning team. He’d also be cost-controlled, provides high defensive reliability, is smart, very coachable, is close to being NHL-ready, can play physical and he can win critical faceoffs. He’s the guy a coach will trust with the game on the line or in the dying minutes of a game.

It also depends on what one views his ceiling as. If the Habs end up selecting another center with their 5th overall, Beck is that much easier to let go of.

I very much doubt there would be a scenario that comes down to Beck and the FLA pick — especially if it’s a sign and trade. I’d expect other pieces on top of the FLA pick but hopefully it would involve redundant or organizational strength type of players.

Beg to differ on Dvorak. He’s not an asset and has a multi year deal. No reason for Peg to take him.

 

[OnTheRun]

The reports that Jets aren't really interested in a rebuild was even with the possibilities of Hellebuyck and Scheifele, as well as possibly Wheeler being traded. The first two both being a year away from UFA.

All of them can bring in roster players, as well as picks and prospects. Jets would be able to get a little bit of everything with these assets.

The whole "not willing to rebuild" wasn't limited to PLD only.

Well thing changed in the sense it's not about being interested in doing something or not.
Hellebuyck isn't a possibility anymore, the door is officially shut. They have 2 hot potatoes, maybe 3, to deal with now. And if they whiff this off-season they will forced into a rebuild, interested or not.