Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[K2MyEverest]

It all depends on the cost it would take to get him this summer. I would prefer to go after him right now (at a reasonable cost) but if the Jets are asking for too much, I dont see Hughes getting him this summer. He'll just Wait it out for UFA. There's some risk involve with this of him signing elsewhere if they do this but the Habs have the depth to gamble a bit with this.

If it happens, it will happen at the draft and its hard to predict anything without knowing where the Habs will pick with their own pick or Florida Pick. Once we know the selections order, it will be easier to assess the situation.

Let's Say the Habs doesnt Win the lottery and Pick between 5 or 7. They'll probably target Will Smith or Reinbacher. If you go with Reinbacher, they'll probably target a forward with Floride pick. There should be some good potential around 15... Leonard, maybe Cristall will fall, Danielson, Height. etc.

I think Hugues will take his decision draft day and will already have a deal in place with Winnipeg depending on Who's going to be available at the time of Florida's pick.

I feel like we all know the target for the playoff is for 24-25 season. That could change if we get Bedard at the draft.

I do see Dubois playing on the wing too as a Habs. Perfect for Suzuki - Caufield.

Also wanting to add, with Winnipeg situation. Dubois who we clearly know doesnt want to sign long term there and Scheifele soon to be UFA in a year, there's potential for them to lose their two top 6 centers. If they cannot extend Scheifele this summer they'll probably go full blown rebuild so there's going to be a lot of pressure on Winnipeg management this summer. This + the fact that we all know Dubois wants to come play for MTL will gives Hugues the upper hand.

If Im Winnipeg I do everything to keep Scheifele extended as soon as they can or they'll have to go through some really hard time since no UFA's wants to sign there...

If they ever feel like Scheifele will test the market in 2024 summer, watch out...

Scheifele gone, Wheeler gone, Dubois gone, you have to think Hellebuyck wont sign too if thats the case. The pressure is on Winnipeg sides all the way.

 

[K2MyEverest]

He'll probably get it but he's not worth it based on his numbers...

If the Habs win Bedard, I offer him not more than 8.5 x 8 next summer and stick to this. With Suzuki, Caufield, Bedard and Dubois. You'll have to be careful not to tie yourself with too much money like the Leafs did with their top 4 forwards

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

How much would Dubois cost if he was a free agent? If he takes a huge hometown discount like 6.5m per year this could be interesting but he's probably thinking he's worth 8 million per year which is why I don't care about him.

7.5/8 is a hometown discount...

A big centre he could get 9

 

[Naslundforever]

Do you think there is any truth to the idea that signing or trading for Dubois will not be taken well by Dach/Suzuki?

Almost like a message to them that management doesn't have faith in them at C?

Kings of the Bedard race lol… I doubt it. Pretty sure hockey players want to be on good teams and have as many good players around them as possible. Could be true of the ahl fringe nhlers hoping for a spot, not these guys in my opinion.

 

[NewEraGM]

If the Habs win Bedard, I offer him not more than 8.5 x 8 next summer and stick to this. With Suzuki, Caufield, Bedard and Dubois. You'll have to be careful not to tie yourself with too much money like the Leafs did with their top 4 forwards

Suzuki Caufield and Dubois would all be in the 8-9M range. That’s a lot different than 3 players in the 10-11M range. And one thing that really screwed the Leafs was the flat cap. Had it gone up as expected and as it should going forward, they would have been fine. To have PLD, Suzuki Caufield and Bedard on his ELC for 30Mish for 3 years is very good

 

[Rapala]

I may be wrong but Dubois and his Agent must have a number in their heads as we speak. Why do people consistently assume that getting him before UFA will automatically lower that number? Sure he wants to come to Montreal like many before him. But we can't ignore the mercenary aspect of UFA and we can't ignore his Agent's input. Honestly if I was PLD's agent I would not be looking to give up the UFA trump card.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

The only insight is in his bias for or against acquiring Dubois. His post is nothing more than opting for a position that has been lingering around this and other forums for ages. It does not supply any different option or explanation as to why not to acquire Dubois.

Insightful to you because you agree? I can understand you sharing his opinion, but blowing flowers ups his arse wasn't either necessary or justified.


Nothing new. Not insightful.

I find it a wise policy to not agree with opinions that I find lack insightfulness. Perhaps you have heard of the old refrain that great minds think alike.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

He'll probably get it but he's not worth it based on his numbers...

He's not gms are so dumb that there is always 2-3 of them to overpay for noreason .

Huberdeau is the funniest this yeat. Dude hes overpaid by 3m atleast

 

[Rapala]

I find it a wise policy to not agree with opinions that I find lack insightfulness. Perhaps you have heard of the old refrain that great minds think alike.

Thank you Chester. Quite often I read what you have written and wish I wrote it. I laugh because I'm thinking isn't that what I wrote. But then I realize no not even close despite trying to impart the same meaning.

 

[Rapala]

The insightfulness of the post is based on the time-frame of its approach. We are at least two years from being competitive. The acquisition of any high priced player while we are acquiring additional young assets and shedding bloated unproductive contracts would be counterproductive. The timing of acquiring key free agent players is truly an important facet of the art of team building. In this writer’s opinion, this is not the time to plunge into the free agency market nor is Dubois the player I would get ‘wet’ for.

I tried to say this.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Thank you Chester. Quite often I read what you have written and wish I wrote it. I laugh because I'm thinking isn't that what I wrote. But then I realize no not even close despite trying to impart the same meaning.

Thanks for your kind words. Please remember that this forum is not a writing contest and I ( as should everyone) enjoy reading all posts. People can agree with or disagree with what I write. As for Dubois, I fall within the camp that is hesitant in entering into a long term contract that will commit approximately 10% of our cap to player who has never in his career elevated the team he has played for. But the point is, whether the Canadiens acquire Dubois or decide to take a pass on such an acquisition, such a decision is not a pivotal moment in history. And discussions about same should not engender any level of rancour .

 

[ML16]

Well said.

Suzuki Caufield and Dubois would all be in the 8-9M range. That’s a lot different than 3 players in the 10-11M range. And one thing that really screwed the Leafs was the flat cap. Had it gone up as expected and as it should going forward, they would have been fine. To have PLD, Suzuki Caufield and Bedard on his ELC for 30Mish for 3 years is very good

Indeed! Furthermore, if the Habs can sign Caufield and Dubois long term for Suzuki-like terms, chances are a 8M AAV could likely become the team's officious "internal cap" (unless of course the Habs draft Bedard, but the latter's payday would only come once most Bergevin's last contracts are gone...) An eventual 8M AAV "internal cap" for top-4 forwards / top-2 defensemen would be highly sustainable onwards, especially with a projectable 90M cap in the near future.

 

[Ozmodiar]

So many variables come with option #1 in the poll. The degrees is people wanting the players should be more along the lines of:

* yes! He would be our best player. Offer competitive package and pay him like our top player. 8.5M minimum

* maybe. He’d be of similar quality as Suzy and CC. Offer competitive package but don’t break the bank. ~8M

* nah, wait for free agency

* no thanks. Inconsistent, attitude.

 

[1909]

If Dubois is the ultimate acquisition Hughes can get during next Summer, I would like him try getting those UFA players, guys who could stenghten the bottom six at a cheap price. I don't think there is much choice for Habs on the UFA market.

Frederic Gaudreau, who has two strong season in Minny , could center a bottom six line easily;
Bokonji Imama, to insert in the line up sometimes and give a hand to Xhekaj;
Jeffrey Viel could also be that guy. Him and Imama are already better fighters than Pezz.

 

[Rapala]

If Dubois is the ultimate acquisition Hughes can get during next Summer, I would like him try getting those UFA players, guys who could stenghten the bottom six at a cheap price. I don't think there is much choice for Habs on the UFA market.

Frederic Gaudreau, who has two strong season in Minny , could center a bottom six line easily;
Bokonji Imama, to insert in the line up sometimes and give a hand to Xhekaj;
Jeffrey Viel could also be that guy. Him and Imama are already better fighters than Pezz.

I'd be astonished if one of our moves isn't something of this nature. i.e. low hanging fruit. I'd prefer someone of the same ilk who can play much higher up the line up but those players are few and far between.

 

[1909]

I'd be astonished if one of our moves isn't something of this nature. i.e. low hanging fruit. I'd prefer someone of the same ilk who can play much higher up the line up but those players are few and far between.

If Habs top six are Suzuki-Caufield-Dach-Anderson-"Dubois"-Slaf or Gurionov or RHP, that should be fine.
Habs can wait then for Farrell, Roy, Beck, Mesar, Kapanen. Hopefully, they gonna draft a kid like Will Smith or better in the next draft.

 

[Rapala]

If Habs top six are Suzuki-Caufield-Dach-Anderson-"Dubois"-Slaf or Gurionov or RHP, that should be fine.
Habs can wait then for Farrell, Roy, Beck, Mesar, Kapanen. Hopefully, they gonna draft a kid like Will Smith or better in the next draft.

I'm not sold on any of Anderson Gurianov or RHP as long term fits for a top 6 position. At least not on the type of team I hope we are building. I'll give Anderson another season to show what he is all about but he has to remain in the line up and show up most nights. The other two are third liners who can play higher up in a pinch.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If Dubois is the ultimate acquisition Hughes can get during next Summer, I would like him try getting those UFA players, guys who could stenghten the bottom six at a cheap price. I don't think there is much choice for Habs on the UFA market.

Frederic Gaudreau, who has two strong season in Minny , could center a bottom six line easily;
Bokonji Imama, to insert in the line up sometimes and give a hand to Xhekaj;
Jeffrey Viel could also be that guy. Him and Imama are already better fighters than Pezz.

Half the posters on this board are likely better fighters than Pezzetta. Not a very high bar.

 

[Scriptor]

If the Habs win Bedard, I offer him not more than 8.5 x 8 next summer and stick to this. With Suzuki, Caufield, Bedard and Dubois. You'll have to be careful not to tie yourself with too much money like the Leafs did with their top 4 forwards

MON, signing players like Caufiel;d , Suzuki and Dubois to around 8M has money left over for Bedard, compared to TOR with Matthews (11.6M), Tavares (11M), Marner (10.9M).

There's 9.5M - 10M left over for Bedard down the line and the 7M or so for Nylander still lying around to use.

There is no comparable between how MON is playing it and how Toronto played it.

7.5/8 is a hometown discount...

A big centre he could get 9

8M, structured properly, is like giving him 8.75M. I think it is doable. Looks like a hometown discount for the PR, but MON takes a harder financial hit with the contract structure to make it more attractive in real money after eight years for Dubois.

I find it a wise policy to not agree with opinions that I find lack insightfulness. Perhaps you have heard of the old refrain that great minds think alike.

Sure.

 

[Scriptor]

Well said.


Indeed! Furthermore, if the Habs can sign Caufield and Dubois long term for Suzuki-like terms, chances are a 8M AAV could likely become the team's officious "internal cap" (unless of course the Habs draft Bedard, but the latter's payday would only come once most Bergevin's last contracts are gone...) An eventual 8M AAV "internal cap" for top-4 forwards / top-2 defensemen would be highly sustainable onwards, especially with a projectable 90M cap in the near future.

I think it is important to note that internal caps apply downward pressure on other players' salaries, especially those that were brought up through the team's system from the draft onward.

Crosby agreeing to 8,7M put the breaks on salaries skyrocketing even though the Pens won the Cup.

 

[Sorinth]

I may be wrong but Dubois and his Agent must have a number in their heads as we speak. Why do people consistently assume that getting him before UFA will automatically lower that number? Sure he wants to come to Montreal like many before him. But we can't ignore the mercenary aspect of UFA and we can't ignore his Agent's input. Honestly if I was PLD's agent I would not be looking to give up the UFA trump card.

Couple of reasons, RFA years are generally less expensive then UFA years, so having a contract that includes RFA years tends to reduce the overall caphit. Now since it's only 1 RFA year left we are probably looking at something like 300K in savings for having that RFA year which is not much but can make it easier to swallow. Second, people want to work at places where they feel valued, by trading for him you show him that you value him, by waiting for UFA it's more of a we like you but don't love you. Finally there is a time value to money, the earlier you get the money the more value it has, if PLD has a number in his head right now, then all else being equal that number will be higher next year, and higher the year after that, etc...

 

[Scriptor]

Thanks for your kind words. Please remember that this forum is not a writing contest and I ( as should everyone) enjoy reading all posts. People can agree with or disagree with what I write. As for Dubois, I fall within the camp that is hesitant in entering into a long term contract that will commit approximately 10% of our cap to player who has never in his career elevated the team he has played for. But the point is, whether the Canadiens acquire Dubois or decide to take a pass on such an acquisition, such a decision is not a pivotal moment in history. And discussions about same should not engender any level of rancour .

I'm not looking for an argument or to be disrespectful at all. As I noted, it is fine and even wholesome to have differing opinions.

I just have trouble reading praise for a post just because it is of similar opinion, suggesting insight after it brings nothing different than what was already repeated many times. The insight happened many posts before that, from whomever had initially made the point is all I am saying.

It's like being in a writing workshop and discussing the story of one student who writes about a dog and the impact the dog has on a family.

The intent is clearly there, but the skill in writing does not make the Rex, the dog particularly likeable, although this is not at all what the writer wants to do in describing the dog.

A round table tries to give constructive criticism to help the writer convey what was truly intended, but we reach one student that eagerly blurts, "That's the best story I've ever read!"

Everyone is astounded by this assertion, but, willing to see things differently, one student asks the other student to explain how this is the best story he has ever read.

The answer is even more astounding, "I had a dog named Rex too."

That's my point where 'insightful' appears to be exaggerated praise.

 

[Scriptor]

I'd be astonished if one of our moves isn't something of this nature. i.e. low hanging fruit. I'd prefer someone of the same ilk who can play much higher up the line up but those players are few and far between.

That's the type of moves Bergevin would settle for. I think we've moved on from Bergevin, don't you?

Trading for Dubois would be more about gradually and consistently adding to the young core, whether it is through the draft, trades or the UFA market.

Pretty sure that Hughes will worry about the secondary players when the core is pretty much built.

I'm not sold on any of Anderson Gurianov or RHP as long term fits for a top 6 position. At least not on the type of team I hope we are building. I'll give Anderson another season to show what he is all about but he has to remain in the line up and show up most nights. The other two are third liners who can play higher up in a pinch.

I agree with you, but I'm curious to know what is the type pf team you would like to build?

Personally, I want a very strong, youngish top-9, even if that means getting reliable scrubs to play a 4th line role for only 6 minutes a game, allowing an average of 19 minutes to spread around the top-9 that would keep every skilled player happy.

 

[Rapala]

Couple of reasons, RFA years are generally less expensive then UFA years, so having a contract that includes RFA years tends to reduce the overall caphit. Now since it's only 1 RFA year left we are probably looking at something like 300K in savings for having that RFA year which is not much but can make it easier to swallow. Second, people want to work at places where they feel valued, by trading for him you show him that you value him, by waiting for UFA it's more of a we like you but don't love you. Finally there is a time value to money, the earlier you get the money the more value it has, if PLD has a number in his head right now, then all else being equal that number will be higher next year, and higher the year after that, etc...

Or we weren't ready for that type major move based on where we were at in the rebuild. Hughes could smooth this over without a doubt. As for 300,000 dollars it may be worth it in the long run despite that adding the piece when you are actually going to be pushing. Either way I trust Hughes with his background.

 

[Treb]

If Dubois is the ultimate acquisition Hughes can get during next Summer, I would like him try getting those UFA players, guys who could stenghten the bottom six at a cheap price. I don't think there is much choice for Habs on the UFA market.

Frederic Gaudreau, who has two strong season in Minny , could center a bottom six line easily;
Bokonji Imama, to insert in the line up sometimes and give a hand to Xhekaj;
Jeffrey Viel could also be that guy. Him and Imama are already better fighters than Pezz.

Gaudreau is the only NHLer there.