Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Boss Man Hughes]

Gaudreau is the only NHLer there.

Imama would be useful for a a couple of years to beat up and go crazy on opponents.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

If Habs top six are Suzuki-Caufield-Dach-Anderson-"Dubois"-Slaf or Gurionov or RHP, that should be fine.
Habs can wait then for Farrell, Roy, Beck, Mesar, Kapanen. Hopefully, they gonna draft a kid like Will Smith or better in the next draft.

Sure that top six challenge anything actually in the nhl.
It takes a lot of the 6 other forwards to be nhlable and keep a +/- respectable.

 

[Treb]

Imama would be useful for a a couple of years to beat up and go crazy on opponents.

Which serves little purpose.

If you want someone to punch faces in the NHL, at least go after someone that can actually play in the NHL.

Imama or Viel would be great for Laval though as they definitely miss a tougher guy since Baddock got traded.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Which serves little purpose.

If you want someone to punch faces in the NHL, at least go after someone that can actually play in the NHL.

Imama or Viel would be great for Laval though as they definitely miss a tougher guy since Baddock got traded.

A fighter who is an NHL calibre player is rare. Habs aren't likely going anywhere in the next couple of years so I am willing to add a guy who will attack any opponent who hits a Hab. When they are a contender he can protect Laval players.

 

[1909]

Gaudreau is the only NHLer there.

One of the other two can be the extra forward used one in a while against some teams.

I just want to give a break to Xhekaj who should concentrate at being a better d-man before thinking about fighting every game. His injury should remind him about when and against whom he should fight.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Sorry I haven't followed the thread and if this was discussed; my apologies.

What is this kids ceiling? I have to say I like the idea of him being a Hab when I look at the lineup and see a glaring hole at #1C or #2C depending on what you consider Suzuki (best #2C or poor mans #1C). Either way I believe in winning by committee, so it's more about filling out the lineup than plugging in the best players at positions.

Assuming we don't win the draft Lottery and whoever is drafted is not going to be a major factor in the NHL until a few years. What are we looking at for centers? Monahan coming back? Dach playing at C? Guys under 20 or close going to make an impact at the NHL level (Mysak, Mesar, Beck, Kidney)?

If I am to share my ceiling for PLD, I see him as a 40 goals, 80 points type of player at his peak. Which I have to say is pretty impressive, worth a nice contract for sure.

 

[Treb]

A fighter who is an NHL calibre player is rare. Habs aren't likely going anywhere in the next couple of years so I am willing to add a guy who will attack any opponent who hits a Hab. When they are a contender he can protect Laval players.

One of the other two can be the extra forward used one in a while against some teams.

I just want to give a break to Xhekaj who should concentrate at being a better d-man before thinking about fighting every game. His injury should remind him about when and against whom he should fight.

As you said, heavyweights who are NHL caliber are rare.

Therefore, we can get away with a much more talented hockey player that can drop the gloves and still go toe to toe with most of the remaining fighters in the league.

 

[HuGort]

I would probably wait sign Dubois as UFA. We have to give up Florida pick or it's equal. Plus Dubois 7 million caphit we could rent out for another first.

 

[Nipsey]

Stay away from Dubois. A 60-70 point player that doesn’t elevate others and with suspect character doesn’t move the needle and contributes to us being mediocre long term. No more shortcuts. Keep our picks and build through the draft.

 

[Sorinth]

Or we weren't ready for that type major move based on where we were at in the rebuild. Hughes could smooth this over without a doubt. As for 300,000 dollars it may be worth it in the long run despite that adding the piece when you are actually going to be pushing. Either way I trust Hughes with his background.

You asked why PLD would be accept less if we traded for him, the answer is it will make him feel valued whether the timing is right for the team is irrelevant to that feeling.

And specifically for the timing, if you pass on a top line player because the timing isn't right then you are taking a big risk because in a year or two when the timing is right there might not be someone of that calibre available that wants to come. In fact given how rare players of that level are actually available and our history in being able to acquire them when they are I'd say the odds are actually quite small. All it takes is PLD being traded to one of the other teams he'd be interested in playing for and we are left empty handed.

 

[Scriptor]

Hate for Dubois is strong. It's more and more apparent in this thread...

 

[ML16]

Stay away from Dubois. A 60-70 point player that doesn’t elevate others and with suspect character doesn’t move the needle and contributes to us being mediocre long term. No more shortcuts. Keep our picks and build through the draft.

The issue with solely building through drafting is that the Habs’ roster is no longer bad enough for such a long game approach; if only because of what turn out to be two homeruns last summer: Dach and Matheson.

With or without Dubois, unless the Habs experienced a third consecutive record-setting injury-plagued season, Montreal’s likely heading into no man’s land territory draft-wise as soon as next season.

Also, the Habs need to shelter and optimise the development of the many U23 already on - or projected into next’s year - roster. Leveraging draft/prospect capital for a core piece like Dubois can help in that regard.

Whereas solely drafting doesn’t help at all during crucial core building years; especially with the underwhelming quality of complementary forwards surround the young core at the moment (Gallagher, Hoffman, Dvorak, Armia, Pitlick).

 

[SlafySZN]

The issue with solely building through drafting is that the Habs’ roster is no longer bad enough for such a long game approach; if only because of what turn out to be two homeruns last summer: Dach and Matheson.

With or without Dubois, unless the Habs experienced a third consecutive record-setting injury-plagued season, Montreal’s likely heading into no man’s land territory draft-wise as soon as next season.

Also, the Habs need to shelter and optimise the development of the many U23 already on - or projected into next’s year - roster. Leveraging draft/prospect capital for a core piece like Dubois can help in that regard.

Whereas solely drafting doesn’t help at all during crucial core building years; especially with the underwhelming quality of complementary forwards surround the young core at the moment (Gallagher, Hoffman, Dvorak, Armia, Pitlick).

The thing is the habs is in need of an elite player, or two.

You get that from the top of the draft.

 

[Scriptor]

The thing is the habs is in need of an elite player, or two.

You get that from the top of the draft.

Better hope they win the lottery this year, then, and next year again, hoping they don't finisgh on the cusp of making the playoffs and end up with a 6th OA after winning the lottery...

I think people mix up elite with generational and there just aren't that many generational players out there.

I'm happy with many star players and no generational players.

I'd be happy without Bedard, but winning the lottery for the 2nd OA and choosing Fantilli.

I'd still trade for Dubois and ice a roster that has Suzukil Dach, Dubois, Fantilli, Caufield, Hutson, Guhle, Mailloux, Xhekaj, Matheson, Roy, Farrell, RHP, etc.

 

[SlafySZN]

Better hope they win the lottery this year, then, and next year again, hoping they don't finisgh on the cusp of making the playoffs and end up with a 6th OA after winning the lottery...

I think people mix up elite with generational and there just aren't that many generational players out there.

I'm happy with many star players and no generational players.

I'd be happy without Bedard, but winning the lottery for the 2nd OA and choosing Fantilli.

I'd still trade for Dubois and ice a roster that has Suzukil Dach, Dubois, Fantilli, Caufield, Hutson, Guhle, Mailloux, Xhekaj, Matheson, Roy, Farrell, RHP, etc.

Yeah but i’m not asking for Bedard necessarily, that’s almost once in a life time chance.

but yes a Fantilli is an elite/superstar player. A player like Macklin Celebrini for the 2024 draft will be an elite one too i think. We miss one or two of that.

 

[ML16]

The thing is the habs is in need of an elite player, or two.

You get that from the top of the draft.

My point exactly. After the 2023 draft, the highest projectable 1st round pick owned by the Habs in the foreseeable future just might be… Calgary’s 2025 1st!

It’s won’t necessarily be impossible to draft elite players beyond the top-10 in 2024 or 2025, but the Habs should definitely have a balanced approach and explore leveraging a few of their upcoming picks for talent.

Last summer is a good example of said balanced approach : the Habs use one first round pick on a potential top-6 winger with size and leveraged the other in the Dach trade to steal a top-6 center from Chicago.

Likewise, this summer, another young center with talent, size and grit - picked 3rd overall as well - is available. The package required won’t be as cheap as Dach, but the Habs pulling the trigger on Dubois instead of picking #15 fits their core - and your narrative.

 

[CHwest]

Hate for Dubois is strong. It's more and more apparent in this thread...

Good grief, people don't want him so you paint it as hate? Seriously WTF. I don't want him because I don't think he is a difference maker, and I think he has suspect character. Nothing to do with hate.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

One of the other two can be the extra forward used one in a while against some teams.

I just want to give a break to Xhekaj who should concentrate at being a better d-man before thinking about fighting every game. His injury should remind him about when and against whom he should fight.

Imama can't fight the best heavyweights in this league though. He got destroyed by Borowiecki and couldn't manage to do anything vs Reaves. Xhekaj can learn from his injury; there was no reason for him to drop the gloves vs a plug like Desharnais. Acquiring other fighters won't necessarily keep Xhekaj from fighting. He has to realize that he needs to pick and choose his opponents more.

 

[BLONG7]

Good grief, people don't want him so you paint it as hate? Seriously WTF. I don't want him because I don't think he is a difference maker, and I think he has suspect character. Nothing to do with hate.

The word hate gets way to much use on this forum................hilarious how an opposing opinion ends up with the word hate being used.
Terrible...............

As for PLD I was on the stay away camp for awhile, but I have softened that stance, just don't want us to give up to much to get him this summer, when next summer he is free to come to Montreal as a UFA.
He supposedly wants to play for the Habs, and almost NO francophone players ever do........when they become UFA's they use the habs as leverage, and go elsewhere.....

Gotta like that ha wants to come..........he is a 60-70 pt guy and could make that core group pretty strong...

 

[Nedved]

I'm sitting here imagining a group of forwards with Suzuki, Dubois, Dach, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Anderson, Michkov in 2 years. oh my gosh.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I'm sitting here imagining a group of forwards with Suzuki, Dubois, Dach, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Anderson, Michkov in 2 years. oh my gosh.

This is what I imagine

 

[TomKosto]

Hate for Dubois is strong. It's more and more apparent in this thread...

So if we don't want to pay Dubois 8-9m x7-8years, we hate him? Come on now. I want the Habs to acquire him but everyone has the right to an opinion. There's clearly some question mark with Dubois.

 

[TomKosto]

Imama can't fight the best heavyweights in this league though. He got destroyed by Borowiecki and couldn't manage to do anything vs Reaves. Xhekaj can learn from his injury; there was no reason for him to drop the gloves vs a plug like Desharnais. Acquiring other fighters won't necessarily keep Xhekaj from fighting. He has to realize that he needs to pick and choose his opponents more.

Xhekaj just need to learn to be an intimidating factor without having to drop the gloves and throw huge haymakers on someone fore head. Lucic and Chara are probably the most intimidating player of the last era, and they didn't dropped the glove 20times a year. You can push guys, etc, don't need to drop them gloves everytime. Josh Anderson and Pezz needs to do it a little bit more to help Xhekaj, we don't need a plug like Imama in the lineup.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Imama can't fight the best heavyweights in this league though. He got destroyed by Borowiecki and couldn't manage to do anything vs Reaves. Xhekaj can learn from his injury; there was no reason for him to drop the gloves vs a plug like Desharnais. Acquiring other fighters won't necessarily keep Xhekaj from fighting. He has to realize that he needs to pick and choose his opponents more.

If Xhekaj is the only enforcer type on the team he will be forced to fight more than he should. If there was another forward and defenseman to protect their teammates St Louis can tell Xhekaj to keep the fighting to a minimum.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What do you consider would beat that?

Not sure. I guess it depends on the Jets perspective on Girard and Newhook.