Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21 Pt. III

[SI90]

at worst, dufour just ends up as an AHL player

agreed.

 

[Osakahaus]

agreed.

this happened to Otto btw, but Otto is just a really good AHL guy, not an NHL center. Still nice to know that he can do stuff, but that's all.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Interesting. I always value your insight on prospects so I'm curious as to what you think of Lambert. His skill is evident, but everything I'm reading shows that he's not very engaged when the puck isn't on his stick.

My thoughts on that:
Saw the same thing said about many such prospects, Willy Nylander being a good example. He too had a poor draft year. But I saw him a good bit and his skill set and skating left no doubts in my mind's eye that he'd be a scorer at the NHL level.

So, personally, I'm not really worrying about that at all. That thing can be taught.

What Lambert has in the skills department can't really be taught. The skating is special. His puckhandling at high speeds is special. He's got pedigree and all indications are that he'll have ideal size once he's got his man strength.

Why he's pulling a Raty this season?

I don't care. I hope it keeps up. I hope he falls. I hope he's an option for us.

Liiga is a pro league and my experience there and with the Finnish coaching mentality in general, is that kids are not simply entrusted with offensive roles. Yes, there are and have been exceptions (Laine, Puljujarvi, Aho, Hintz), but in general, it's not part of that country's hockey DNA to simply be placing "talent" ahead of everything else they want a player to be doing. That said, Liiga has a LOT of U23 players, they just tend to not be top line guys, even if there may be enough skill for such a role.

Case in point - Lambert's Liiga season compared to his two games of WJC play in which he had five points and a +6. I'm sure if he were playing U20 league in Finland, he'd be tearing it apart. They all know there that he should be in Liiga in some everyday capacity.

Which is why I'm very high on Miroshnichenko. Booming shot, good size, good skater, high motor and compete level.

This kid could very well be special. I haven't yet been able to spend much time with him.

I have been watching Lekkerimäki (a Finnish name) and he too is a player I'm not worried about. Yes, yes, some aren't convinced about his skating. Some question the all-round game (like any 17-year-olds really need to be worrying about that). What he is doing is showing exceptional offensive sense and the ability to make things happen with regularity. Sure, his team has been shockingly bad this season, so he's been "handed" a role that may not be coming with more competitive teams, but there are tried and true SHL defenders who he's proving to be more than a handful for. He's made some people look silly.

I expect his rise to continue and he is a lock for the U18 team, so that tournament could be what ultimately determines whether he goes 20th or top 10.

 

[saintunspecified]

My thoughts on that:
Saw the same thing said about many such prospects, Willy Nylander being a good example. He too had a poor draft year. But I saw him a good bit and his skill set and skating left no doubts in my mind's eye that he'd be a scorer at the NHL level.

So, personally, I'm not really worrying about that at all. That thing can be taught.

Man, were you ever right about that. I doubted Nylander too, that year. (But I wanted Ehlers over Dal Colle). It's better to swing and miss on explosive players than not to take the chance.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Man, were you ever right about that. I doubted Nylander too, that year. (But I wanted Ehlers over Dal Colle). It's better to swing and miss on explosive players than not to take the chance.

I'd even say it's better to swing and miss on explosive players than swing and miss on non-explosive players.

 

[MJF]

Isn't the prevailing wisdom still to temper one's expectations about scoring stars in the QMJHL, that the Q doesn't put a premium on defense? It's been that way for at least 40 years.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

My thoughts on that:
Saw the same thing said about many such prospects, Willy Nylander being a good example. He too had a poor draft year. But I saw him a good bit and his skill set and skating left no doubts in my mind's eye that he'd be a scorer at the NHL level.

So, personally, I'm not really worrying about that at all. That thing can be taught.

What Lambert has in the skills department can't really be taught. The skating is special. His puckhandling at high speeds is special. He's got pedigree and all indications are that he'll have ideal size once he's got his man strength.

Why he's pulling a Raty this season?

I don't care. I hope it keeps up. I hope he falls. I hope he's an option for us.

Liiga is a pro league and my experience there and with the Finnish coaching mentality in general, is that kids are not simply entrusted with offensive roles. Yes, there are and have been exceptions (Laine, Puljujarvi, Aho, Hintz), but in general, it's not part of that country's hockey DNA to simply be placing "talent" ahead of everything else they want a player to be doing. That said, Liiga has a LOT of U23 players, they just tend to not be top line guys, even if there may be enough skill for such a role.

Case in point - Lambert's Liiga season compared to his two games of WJC play in which he had five points and a +6. I'm sure if he were playing U20 league in Finland, he'd be tearing it apart. They all know there that he should be in Liiga in some everyday capacity.



This kid could very well be special. I haven't yet been able to spend much time with him.

I have been watching Lekkerimäki (a Finnish name) and he too is a player I'm not worried about. Yes, yes, some aren't convinced about his skating. Some question the all-round game (like any 17-year-olds really need to be worrying about that). What he is doing is showing exceptional offensive sense and the ability to make things happen with regularity. Sure, his team has been shockingly bad this season, so he's been "handed" a role that may not be coming with more competitive teams, but there are tried and true SHL defenders who he's proving to be more than a handful for. He's made some people look silly.

I expect his rise to continue and he is a lock for the U18 team, so that tournament could be what ultimately determines whether he goes 20th or top 10.

Ok you have my attention lol. Definitely eased my concerns a bit. I always admired Lambert's skill, and he's very dynamic. I guess I looked at it from a Trotz perspective. Like he will be a Bellows type of prospect where he plays for a stretch of games, then Barry gets tired of him and benches him for another stretch.

I still prefer Miroshnichenko, but I think he'll be a higher draft pick, and it'll depend where we fall (really don't see playoffs happening this year). Need to do more research on Lekkerimaki as well. I know many say next years class is the deeper one, but I actually really like this class. Definitely has some intriguing prospects.

 

[Osakahaus]

My thoughts on that:
Saw the same thing said about many such prospects, Willy Nylander being a good example. He too had a poor draft year. But I saw him a good bit and his skill set and skating left no doubts in my mind's eye that he'd be a scorer at the NHL level.

So, personally, I'm not really worrying about that at all. That thing can be taught.

What Lambert has in the skills department can't really be taught. The skating is special. His puckhandling at high speeds is special. He's got pedigree and all indications are that he'll have ideal size once he's got his man strength.

Why he's pulling a Raty this season?

I don't care. I hope it keeps up. I hope he falls. I hope he's an option for us.

Liiga is a pro league and my experience there and with the Finnish coaching mentality in general, is that kids are not simply entrusted with offensive roles. Yes, there are and have been exceptions (Laine, Puljujarvi, Aho, Hintz), but in general, it's not part of that country's hockey DNA to simply be placing "talent" ahead of everything else they want a player to be doing. That said, Liiga has a LOT of U23 players, they just tend to not be top line guys, even if there may be enough skill for such a role.

Case in point - Lambert's Liiga season compared to his two games of WJC play in which he had five points and a +6. I'm sure if he were playing U20 league in Finland, he'd be tearing it apart. They all know there that he should be in Liiga in some everyday capacity.



This kid could very well be special. I haven't yet been able to spend much time with him.

I have been watching Lekkerimäki (a Finnish name) and he too is a player I'm not worried about. Yes, yes, some aren't convinced about his skating. Some question the all-round game (like any 17-year-olds really need to be worrying about that). What he is doing is showing exceptional offensive sense and the ability to make things happen with regularity. Sure, his team has been shockingly bad this season, so he's been "handed" a role that may not be coming with more competitive teams, but there are tried and true SHL defenders who he's proving to be more than a handful for. He's made some people look silly.

I expect his rise to continue and he is a lock for the U18 team, so that tournament could be what ultimately determines whether he goes 20th or top 10.

I like Lekkerimaki a ton also, since he's starting to showcase some really nice production. He too could be a very talented player who the isles should be scouting on (Especially since this team loves Scandinavians lately)

 

[Osakahaus]

btw if the isles luck into a top 5 pick, I want to get Slaf. This dude just looks sick on the ice now. Guess he needed to play with Nemec or on a smaller rink.

 

[periferal]

at worst, dufour just ends up as an AHL player

I understand he's a 5th round pick so you usually expect nothing from them, but I mean given the glowing reviews of Dufour around here by some just being an AHL player would be seemingly very disappointing.

 

[periferal]

I'd even say it's better to swing and miss on explosive players than swing and miss on non-explosive players.

I'd say that each scenario is case by case and you shouldn't have hard and fast rules about always drafting a high risk/high reward guy or a safe bottom 6 player at any pick.

Sometimes you draft Josh Ho-Sang in round 1 and F it up...And sometimes you take the lower upside Casey Cizikas in the 4th and it's a much better pick.

And sometimes you take Griffin Reinhart in the top 5 because he's supposed to be a "safe" pick...And others you swing for Barzal 15th and knock it out of the park.

Point is...Your scouting department gets paid to project which players will hit and which will miss as much as they possibly can. And the difference between being the Lightning who hit on players all over the draft and any number of average to crappy teams is that those other franchises don't.

 

[Osakahaus]

I understand he's a 5th round pick so you usually expect nothing from them, but I mean given the glowing reviews of Dufour around here by some just being an AHL player would be seemingly very disappointing.

if he ends up as an AHL player, that still is better than not being anything. Given our track record, i'd rather that. Remember Arnaud Durandeau? That could be Dufour

 

[periferal]

if he ends up as an AHL player, that still is better than not being anything. Given our track record, i'd rather that. Remember Arnaud Durandeau? That could be Dufour

Since I am only interested in winning a Stanley Cup, if any draft pick does not become an NHLer I honestly couldn't care what they become.

 

[Osakahaus]

I'd say that each scenario is case by case and you shouldn't have hard and fast rules about always drafting a high risk/high reward guy or a safe bottom 6 player at any pick.

Sometimes you draft Josh Ho-Sang in round 1 and F it up...And sometimes you take the lower upside Casey Cizikas in the 4th and it's a much better pick.

And sometimes you take Griffin Reinhart in the top 5 because he's supposed to be a "safe" pick...And others you swing for Barzal 15th and knock it out of the park.

Point is...Your scouting department gets paid to project which players will hit and which will miss as much as they possibly can. And the difference between being the Lightning who hit on players all over the draft and any number of average to crappy teams is that those other franchises don't.

I could also say that teams like Ottawa, LA, Anaheim, and SJ also do very well at drafting. The issue between us and them is that our drafting has been awful for years in the later rounds, while teams like Ottawa will dig up a Mark Stone or Drake Batherson in the later rounds. If the isles ever got said players, who knows what we could've done.

 

[SI90]

Another day another point(goal) for Raty. He’s taken over and become a go to guy on his team.

 

[Osakahaus]

Another day another point(goal) for Raty. He’s taken over and become a go to guy on his team.

nice backhander as well.

 

[doublechili]

Another day another point(goal) for Raty. He’s taken over and become a go to guy on his team.

That was a really nice NHL-style goal. He was being checked tightly but used body positioning and movement to open up space for himself to get off the shot and also to change the angle on the goalie to create the opening to score the goal. He might not be that far away.

 

[Osakahaus]

Since I am only interested in winning a Stanley Cup, if any draft pick does not become an NHLer I honestly couldn't care what they become.

I care too, but not every prospect WILL become an NHL player. Just giving the "worst case scenario" for Dufour

 

[saintunspecified]

That was a really nice NHL-style goal. He was being checked tightly but used body positioning and movement to open up space for himself to get off the shot and also to change the angle on the goalie to create the opening to score the goal. He might not be that far away.

Yeah, that's pretty - takes some pretty good balance to pull that series of movements off.

 

[periferal]

I care too, but not every prospect WILL become an NHL player. Just giving the "worst case scenario" for Dufour

I hear you and you sound more rational than others who seemed to have Dufour as a middle-6 wing "at worst."

Again I don't follow prospects like I used to (like when we had a top 10 pick every year), but while Dufour has some buzz surrounding him it seems like a group of Isles fans have him becoming some impact power-forward type and it didn't seem like that was the more overall/objective scouting report on him.

 

[periferal]

Another day another point(goal) for Raty. He’s taken over and become a go to guy on his team.

Safe to say that Raty is our best prospect (at least the one with the most upside)?

 

[Skip To My Lou]

Safe to say that Raty is our best prospect (at least the one with the most upside)?

I'd say so, especially since Wahlstrom and Dobson have graduated to becoming pros. It's nice to have at least one youngin that has loads of promise.

 

[SI90]

Safe to say that Raty is our best prospect (at least the one with the most upside)?

100%

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Safe to say that Raty is our best prospect (at least the one with the most upside)?

It's nice to see him score on game by game basis. It is rare a player slides out of the first rd when they were considered to be a higher pick to the later 2nd rd, that do so well in their D+1 year. Thank goodness Jukurit took him on, and got to give Jokinen some big props for believing in him. Is there anyway we can hire Jokinen as a coach for BP...

 

[doublechili]

It's nice to see him score on game by game basis. It is rare a player slides out of the first rd when they were considered to be a higher pick to the later 2nd rd, that do so well in their D+1 year. Thank goodness Jukurit took him on, and got to give Jokinen some big props for believing in him. Is there anyway we can hire Jokinen as a coach for BP...

It's funny how sometimes guys just slide. Pelech was supposed to be a high 2nd rounder in his draft year, and he slid back to us in the 3rd round. That turned out okay for us. Hopefully Raty's a similar deal.