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Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21 Pt. III

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What I saw of Iskhakov here in Germany this year was, unfortunately, congruent with the worries we've shared here from the very moment he was drafted.

Sure, he had a good handful of highlight reel plays over the course of the season. He did some real nice things to kick things off and after the first three or four games, announcers here were singing his praises. But once the league got to know him, he started paying the inevitable price. He simply does not possess the mobility, be it speed or agility, to escape all the physical attacks that eventually come, even from players who themselves are not strong skaters. He's truly a little tyke and once space is taken away, he can't escape the ensuing hits.

He had a rather long injury this year and it was a direct result of the rough stuff. We already saw that in college.

Sure, he's here now for the next two years and it'll be very interesting to see what he can do in Bridgeport and how this team's coaching staff may be able to mold him.

But the DEL was basically an AHL-level league itself and despite being on one of the most loaded teams in the league, he had 23 points in 29 games and was a 4th liner averaging under 10 minutes a game in the playoffs. This is his 4th season since being drafted.

In general, it just cannot be stated enough that smaller skill players have to have an extra gear by the time they're draft-eligible or they shouldn't be drafted. Size itself doesn't have to be a say-all, end-all, but if we're talking about belief in said player making it as a point-getter in the NHL, then he simply must be an exceptional skater. Not average; exceptional.

And Iskhakov isn't even really average.
 
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Glory Days said:
Read Chapin’s post below. I could not have said it any better. Small players that aren’t good skaters aren’t a good gamble to make it as NHL players
Click to expand...
It's also possible that NYI expects to see Holmstrom/Raty with the big club within the next 1-2 seasons and wanted to backfill some skill in their minor league lineup. I'm not saying that is a good enough reason to warrant using a contract slot on him, but we have seen Lamoriello make signings to benefit Bridgeport and Bridgeport only in the past (i.e. Bardreau).

Personally I would have rather rolled the dice on Dufour's linemate Lawrence over Iskhakov, but here we are...I don't see Iskhakov finishing this contract in North America. One random week in February we will see Elliotte Friedman tweet that he is on unconditional waivers for the purpose of mutual contract termination and that is the most likely outcome in my opinion.
 
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Glory Days said:
Read Chapin’s post below. I could not have said it any better. Small players that aren’t good skaters aren’t a good gamble to make it as NHL players
Click to expand...
Agree not a good gamble… drafting them.

But at this point he was already drafted, doesn’t make sense to not give him a try.

Might as well sign him and see if he can contribute at the AHL level. At the very least he might help in the development of other prospects. Or not.
 
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MJF said:
It didn’t have far to go anyway.

Holmstrom and Newkirk remain from the 2019 draft, correct?
Click to expand...
Also Bolduc and technically Coskey who played 25 games with the B-Isles this past season (although I believe it was on an AHL contract).

With Salo potentially making the Islanders’ roster out of camp next season, I hope Bolduc rebounds and emerges as the B-Isles top defenseman. It would be nice to keep pipeline flowing whether he helps the big club one day or is a piece in a trade for a need elsewhere.

It’s hard to believe he was an AHL All Star in his rookie season, but training camp injuries can be
a bitch and development (especially for young D) isn’t always linear.

It would be nice to have another legitimate prospect on the backend and he has size and skating, but it’s really going to come down to him. BPT has a track record of development NHL defensemen so the ball is in his court.
 
MJF said:
It didn’t have far to go anyway.

Holmstrom and Newkirk remain from the 2019 draft, correct?
Click to expand...

Indeed, and Bolduc too.

I have to admit that I'm a little critical of that draft, and not even because of Holmstrom. I was aware of Holmstrom and saw him as Sweden's top forward in that draft. I was even pulling for us to draft him - but in the 2nd round, not the first. It really felt there was too much higher profile talent on the table to be taking him there and honestly, that's exactly how it's turned out to be to date, even if I still believe he will eventually be a nice player for us down the line.

At the time, Bolduc wasn't even on most independent lists' top 225+ players, so hearing his name called in the second round really surprised me. Disappointed me, actually. I really liked Norlinder, Dorofeyev, Alexandrov, Cajkovic, and even A. Johansson, all of whom were still on the board at that juncture. Alas, Bolduc turned out to be as nice a 2nd rounder as one could reasonably expect in that range. And I write that despite the season he just had.

Granted, he's now really gotta bounce back next year and re-establish himself as an NHL-bound prospect.

I didn't mind Newkirk at the spot he was taken, even though I really had my fingers crossed that they'd grab USNTDP center Patrick Moynihan there. Knowing Moynihan was off to Providence, I kind of thought he'd be someone this team would target - and he was still on the board. I've naturally relinquished any belief that NCAA programs in the northeast have any particular meaning for Lamoriello, who clearly has been hands off when it's come to the draft table.

But the latter picks really bothered me. It was less about the two actual players and more about the approach. Both Bibeau and Coskey looked like nice character guys, but both were guys who were playing in spots where Islander scouts were already familiar in light of players previously selected from those teams. It had a "lazy" feel to it. Both were overagers who weren't coming off big scoring years. Both had primarily skating deficiencies. Both needed to be signed by the summer afterward. Heck, in Bibeau's case, I was scratching my head on why they'd take him if they were targeting overagers from the Q instead of Harvey-Pinard, who was still available and had been thought of as an overager with true potential on the skill front.

Most importantly, we've seen a drafting trend away from overagers who aren't coming off a standout season. Why? Because draft picks are a commodity and teams are trending towards using the later round picks on players who have a definite, identifiable NHL skill here or there while also having plenty of time on their side to keep developing. Likewise, teams have long since figured out "Why draft these kind of character kids with low NHL potential? Why not just wait until they're free agents and sign them then, maybe even to AHL contracts?"

Some teams (like San Jose and Pittsburgh) have been making a habit of it. And it's logical - they've had very few draft picks in recent years, so it's a tactic. But it's not unsuccessful.

So I was really, really dumbfounded that in a year where the Isles only had 5 picks, they took guys like this instead of using those picks to invest in more future-oriented players who brought something real nice to the table. I felt plenty were still around.

One kid I really had my eye on for the 6th round was a Finn named Parsinnen. I really liked what I saw from him with respect to his size/skating package and even thought our head scout would likely be keen on grabbing a countryman with one of these late rounders. Welp, Parsinnen went in the 7th round and admittedly, one pick after Coskey. That's a rough one to swallow at this stage.

Those are the kind of guys astute scouting staffs pluck out of the late rounds. They are there to be had in every draft.

Just felt like the whole thing reeked of wasted opportunity in a draft year where, with only 5 picks, every pick needed to count.
 
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Chapin Landvogt said:
Indeed, and Bolduc too.

I have to admit that I'm a little critical of that draft, and not even because of Holmstrom. I was aware of Holmstrom and saw him as Sweden's top forward in that draft. I was even pulling for us to draft him - but in the 2nd round, not the first. It really felt there was too much higher profile talent on the table to be taking him there and honestly, that's exactly how it's turned out to be to date, even if I still believe he will eventually be a nice player for us down the line.

At the time, Bolduc wasn't even on most independent lists' top 225+ players, so hearing his name called in the second round really surprised me. Disappointed me, actually. I really liked Norlinder, Dorofeyev, Alexandrov, Cajkovic, and even A. Johansson, all of whom were still on the board at that juncture. Alas, Bolduc turned out to be as nice a 2nd rounder as one could reasonably expect in that range. And I write that despite the season he just had.

Granted, he's now really gotta bounce back next year and re-establish himself as an NHL-bound prospect.

I didn't mind Newkirk at the spot he was taken, even though I really had my fingers crossed that they'd grab USNTDP center Patrick Moynihan there. Knowing Moynihan was off to Providence, I kind of thought he'd be someone this team would target - and he was still on the board. I've naturally relinquished any belief that NCAA programs in the northeast have any particular meaning for Lamoriello, who clearly has been hands off when it's come to the draft table.

But the latter picks really bothered me. It was less about the two actual players and more about the approach. Both Bibeau and Coskey looked like nice character guys, but both were guys who were playing in spots where Islander scouts were already familiar in light of players previously selected from those teams. It had a "lazy" feel to it. Both were overagers who weren't coming off big scoring years. Both had primarily skating deficiencies. Both needed to be signed by the summer afterward. Heck, in Bibeau's case, I was scratching my head on why they'd take him if they were targeting overagers from the Q instead of Harvey-Pinard, who was still available and had been thought of as an overager with true potential on the skill front.

Most importantly, we've seen a drafting trend away from overagers who aren't coming off a standout season. Why? Because draft picks are a commodity and teams are trending towards using the later round picks on players who have a definite, identifiable NHL skill here or there while also having plenty of time on their side to keep developing. Likewise, teams have long since figured out "Why draft these kind of character kids with low NHL potential? Why not just wait until they're free agents and sign them then, maybe even to AHL contracts?"

Some teams (like San Jose and Pittsburgh) have been making a habit of it. And it's logical - they've had very few draft picks in recent years, so it's a tactic. But it's not unsuccessful.

So I was really, really dumbfounded that in a year where the Isles only had 5 picks, they took guys like this instead of using those picks to invest in more future-oriented players who brought something real nice to the table. I felt plenty were still around.

One kid I really had my eye on for the 6th round was a Finn named Parsinnen. I really liked what I saw from him with respect to his size/skating package and even thought our head scout would likely be keen on grabbing a countryman with one of these late rounders. Welp, Parsinnen went in the 7th round and admittedly, one pick after Coskey. That's a rough one to swallow at this stage.

Those are the kind of guys astute scouting staffs pluck out of the late rounds. They are there to be had in every draft.

Just felt like the whole thing reeked of wasted opportunity in a draft year where, with only 5 picks, every pick needed to count.
Click to expand...
Does anyone have a quote from Bibeau explaining why he decided to retire?
 
Quick note on Bolduc, when I saw him late in the AHL season, he definitely seemed to be playing faster and similar to his prior year with Bridgeport, when he was very impressive.

That early injury really seemed to derail most of Bolduc's season, but getting back on track near the end should help his confidence going forward.
 
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danteipp said:
Quick note on Bolduc, when I saw him late in the AHL season, he definitely seemed to be playing faster and similar to his prior year with Bridgeport, when he was very impressive.

That early injury really seemed to derail most of Bolduc's season, but getting back on track near the end should help his confidence going forward.
Click to expand...
Bolduc getting back on track as a good LHD prospect would do wonders for the pipeline. Big guy with a big shot would be great for the 3rd pairing, if not higher.
 
Chapin Landvogt said:
Indeed, and Bolduc too.

I have to admit that I'm a little critical of that draft, and not even because of Holmstrom. I was aware of Holmstrom and saw him as Sweden's top forward in that draft. I was even pulling for us to draft him - but in the 2nd round, not the first. It really felt there was too much higher profile talent on the table to be taking him there and honestly, that's exactly how it's turned out to be to date, even if I still believe he will eventually be a nice player for us down the line.

At the time, Bolduc wasn't even on most independent lists' top 225+ players, so hearing his name called in the second round really surprised me. Disappointed me, actually. I really liked Norlinder, Dorofeyev, Alexandrov, Cajkovic, and even A. Johansson, all of whom were still on the board at that juncture. Alas, Bolduc turned out to be as nice a 2nd rounder as one could reasonably expect in that range. And I write that despite the season he just had.

Granted, he's now really gotta bounce back next year and re-establish himself as an NHL-bound prospect.

I didn't mind Newkirk at the spot he was taken, even though I really had my fingers crossed that they'd grab USNTDP center Patrick Moynihan there. Knowing Moynihan was off to Providence, I kind of thought he'd be someone this team would target - and he was still on the board. I've naturally relinquished any belief that NCAA programs in the northeast have any particular meaning for Lamoriello, who clearly has been hands off when it's come to the draft table.

But the latter picks really bothered me. It was less about the two actual players and more about the approach. Both Bibeau and Coskey looked like nice character guys, but both were guys who were playing in spots where Islander scouts were already familiar in light of players previously selected from those teams. It had a "lazy" feel to it. Both were overagers who weren't coming off big scoring years. Both had primarily skating deficiencies. Both needed to be signed by the summer afterward. Heck, in Bibeau's case, I was scratching my head on why they'd take him if they were targeting overagers from the Q instead of Harvey-Pinard, who was still available and had been thought of as an overager with true potential on the skill front.

Most importantly, we've seen a drafting trend away from overagers who aren't coming off a standout season. Why? Because draft picks are a commodity and teams are trending towards using the later round picks on players who have a definite, identifiable NHL skill here or there while also having plenty of time on their side to keep developing. Likewise, teams have long since figured out "Why draft these kind of character kids with low NHL potential? Why not just wait until they're free agents and sign them then, maybe even to AHL contracts?"

Some teams (like San Jose and Pittsburgh) have been making a habit of it. And it's logical - they've had very few draft picks in recent years, so it's a tactic. But it's not unsuccessful.

So I was really, really dumbfounded that in a year where the Isles only had 5 picks, they took guys like this instead of using those picks to invest in more future-oriented players who brought something real nice to the table. I felt plenty were still around.

One kid I really had my eye on for the 6th round was a Finn named Parsinnen. I really liked what I saw from him with respect to his size/skating package and even thought our head scout would likely be keen on grabbing a countryman with one of these late rounders. Welp, Parsinnen went in the 7th round and admittedly, one pick after Coskey. That's a rough one to swallow at this stage.

Those are the kind of guys astute scouting staffs pluck out of the late rounds. They are there to be had in every draft.

Just felt like the whole thing reeked of wasted opportunity in a draft year where, with only 5 picks, every pick needed to count.
Click to expand...
Fully agree. The Isles drafting has been rather "lazy" as of late, always taking a player from a team where they have a prospect already. They will probably do so again this year.
The 1st rounder will 90% be a Euro player from either Finland or Sweden as well. Lazy again
 
IslesNorway said:
Fully agree. The Isles drafting has been rather "lazy" as of late, always taking a player from a team where they have a prospect already. They will probably do so again this year.
The 1st rounder will 90% be a Euro player from either Finland or Sweden as well. Lazy again
Click to expand...

I agree that it feels like they'd use that #13 overall on a player from one of these two countries.

Having given the options a long look, I wouldn't say that candidats like Lambert (FIN) and then Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, and Ostlund would be picks born of laziness. These guys are all very legitimate NHL prospects with a boatload of upside and at least three of them should be there at 13.

Then again, it's been a longggg time since this team took a USNTDP product in the first round and there'll be some goodins around that spot.

For those hoping for Lambert - and heck, the kid is about the most Barzal-like skater I've seen since, well, Barzal - I've got this gutt feeling that Columbus will be grabbing him before we're up to bat.
 
IslesNorway said:
Fully agree. The Isles drafting has been rather "lazy" as of late, always taking a player from a team where they have a prospect already. They will probably do so again this year.
The 1st rounder will 90% be a Euro player from either Finland or Sweden as well. Lazy again
Click to expand...
I don't think we'll be drafting in the first round, Lou doesn't have time to invest in a pick it will be dealt. For who and what I have no clue but his back is against the wall and management will want a return to the playoffs.
 
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Henrik Tikkanens rights reportedly expired today. Hated the pick the moment it happened. 7th rounder so doesn't sting but thought there were better options.

Interestingly 2 picks before was Devon Levi.
 
Chapin Landvogt said:
I agree that it feels like they'd use that #13 overall on a player from one of these two countries.

Having given the options a long look, I wouldn't say that candidats like Lambert (FIN) and then Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, and Ostlund would be picks born of laziness. These guys are all very legitimate NHL prospects with a boatload of upside and at least three of them should be there at 13.

Then again, it's been a longggg time since this team took a USNTDP product in the first round and there'll be some goodins around that spot.

For those hoping for Lambert - and heck, the kid is about the most Barzal-like skater I've seen since, well, Barzal - I've got this gutt feeling that Columbus will be grabbing him before we're up to bat.
Click to expand...
That may well be the case, and I hope they take the BPA wherever he's from, but if you look at the past couple of drafts, they have taken a lot of under the radar Finns in particular, along with some other Euros. It's not really a natural way to draft. It also goes to show that Kautonen rules the roost and that his other Euro scouts has his ear more than anyone else. That, to me seems lazy in the sense that they seem to hone in on Finland at the expense of NA.
 
IslesNorway said:
That may well be the case, and I hope they take the BPA wherever he's from, but if you look at the past couple of drafts, they have taken a lot of under the radar Finns in particular, along with some other Euros. It's not really a natural way to draft. It also goes to show that Kautonen rules the roost and that his other Euro scouts has his ear more than anyone else. That, to me seems lazy in the sense that they seem to hone in on Finland at the expense of NA.
Click to expand...

Indeed, 7 of the last 16 picks (3 drafts worth) have come from Finland or Sweden.

8 of the last 16 picks have come from Europe.

What concerns me is that since 2018, the team has completely shied away from USNTDP kids. Several even had pretty clear ties to Lamoriello.

Also, Raty was likely a clear exeption, but nothing in the last three drafts gave the impression that the team has any interest in going with a BPA, of sorts. Granted, that term should generally only be applied to top 60 talents, because the checklist on tools becomes so vast after that, meaning lots of kids have the same amount of viable tools, but in different areas of the game, all of them having some specific weaknesses as well.

The impression is nonetheless given that they make a list before the draft of who they want where and then just select that guy, as if completely oblivious to what's going on around them and who may be dropping where, and if that chosen guy shouldn't actually be waited on until later in the draft.

Some may see that as a strength.

But it's got to bear fruits along the way.

2022 draft:
I'm seeing a lot of interesting options throughout all seven rounds coming out of Europe.
 
SI90 said:
Henrik Tikkanens rights reportedly expired today. Hated the pick the moment it happened. 7th rounder so doesn't sting but thought there were better options.

Interestingly 2 picks before was Devon Levi.
Click to expand...
Almost makes you think NYI was going to pick Levi (who is undersized for a goalie) and when he went Kautonen just said f*** it and picked the biggest goalie in the draft (who also happened to be a Finn coincidentally).
 
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I've always read that young players in Sweden and Finland are coached to play an all-around game. Obvious Kautonen connection aside, any chance the bias towards those players had something to do with their ability to play Trotz hockey? I realize this is probably a reach! :laugh:
 
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