Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21 Pt. II

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Chapin Landvogt

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Seems like Leddy will be the one who's left unprotected. Bolduc or Salo may get the chance to show their chops quicker than previously thought. Hopefully someone of the Bolduc, Salo, Wotherspoon, MVS group shows that they're ready for the big time earlier than anticipated. Seems like Aho's shot has come and gone.

How do you figure?

After having a really big year in the SHL, he just signed his ELC.

It's like we're only just now going to see what this kid is made of.

PS) Excuse me. I totally didn't see that you had mentioned Aho there. I somehow thought you meant Salo. My bad.
 
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leeroggy

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How do you figure?

After having a really big year in the SHL, he just signed his ELC.

It's like we're only just now going to see what this kid is made of.
Simple reason I think is ‘how many defensemen his size are starting on these Final Four teams?’ Didn’t we just eliminate a team with smaller D? How did Girard hold up against Vegas? The smaller defenses only get you so far.
 

Chapin Landvogt

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Simple reason I think is ‘how many defensemen his size are starting on these Final Four teams?’ Didn’t we just eliminate a team with smaller D? How did Girard hold up against Vegas? The smaller defenses only get you so far.

My bad.

For some reason, I thought he had written Salo, not Aho.

Definitely agree with you both on Aho.
 

saintunspecified

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I would love that as well, but there is a chance Cizikas gets an overpayment on the open market not worth matching.

Scott Laughton just got 5 years/3M. Cizikas, at this stage in his career, is not quite Laughton. The question is not about an overpayment, but about whether NYI can afford the cap to spend 3M AAV for a 4th line center. And maybe the other question is years. At 30, I think 3 years is the max length one should consider.
 
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MJF

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Scott Laughton just got 5 years/3M. Cizikas, at this stage in his career, is not quite Laughton. The question is not about an overpayment, but about whether NYI can afford the cap to spend 3M AAV for a 4th line center. And maybe the other question is years. At 30, I think 3 years is the max length one should consider.
My feeling is the Isles will try to get Cizikas not to ask for a raise or maybe ask him to take a little less money by sweetening his contract with a longer term like they did with Matt Martin.
 

Osakahaus

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Dufour just got traded from Drummondville to Saint John. I guess thats pretty much anything noteworthy. And Ljungkrantz extended two years in sweden. Nothing much to write home for prospects lol. Drafts in a month, we dont got a 1st, so I guess kick back and relax on draft day
 
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xECK29x

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Dufour just got traded from Drummondville to Saint John. I guess thats pretty much anything noteworthy. And Ljungkrantz extended two years in sweden. Nothing much to write home for prospects lol. Drafts in a month, we dont got a 1st, so I guess kick back and relax on draft day

Nice my company has an office in STJ and we go there once a year, guess I'm going to plan that trip around a game!
 

Chapin Landvogt

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Isles really havent taken much CHL stock the past few years it feels.

They really haven't had many picks whatsoever the past few years.

But in general, they also took Bolduc, Coskey, and Bibeau, so that chart could have included them as well, especially since they're all in BPort on at least an AHL contract.
 

periferal

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My feeling is the Isles will try to get Cizikas not to ask for a raise or maybe ask him to take a little less money by sweetening his contract with a longer term like they did with Matt Martin.


Cizikas was making 3.5M/year. Guaranteed some team on the market will offer him that. At the same time we cannot afford Cizikas even at Martin's 1.5M/year unless we dump salary...And there's zero reason for CC to accept that.
 
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MJF

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Cizikas was making 3.5M/year. Guaranteed some team on the market will offer him that. At the same time we cannot afford Cizikas even at Martin's 1.5M/year unless we dump salary...And there's zero reason for CC to accept that.
If some team offers Cizikas a raise then it's time to wish him godspeed. He should be a 10-15 goal scorer every year, but other than the 20 goal season he only hit 10 goals once otherwise it's been single digit goal totals. I love him here as a leader and a center who can kill penalties, but those kind of players should not make $4 million/year for only scoring 8 goals.
 

Osakahaus

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Dufour intrigues me. He's a big boy RH shot goal scorer, I get dreams of an Alex Tuch type if he pans out.
I'd love if he was like a tuch or even dadonov. Give me a power winger who can be a consistent scoring option
 

periferal

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If some team offers Cizikas a raise then it's time to wish him godspeed. He should be a 10-15 goal scorer every year, but other than the 20 goal season he only hit 10 goals once otherwise it's been single digit goal totals. I love him here as a leader and a center who can kill penalties, but those kind of players should not make $4 million/year for only scoring 8 goals.


Bingo. I LOVE Cizikas, but simply as a philosophy you should not be spending more than 2M on your 4th line - Much less 3.5M. Look at the teams that are generally winning Cups - They have a much greater disparity between the contracts on their 1st line vs 4th line, and thus a lot more skill on those top lines. The kind of skill that might've scored 1 measly goal last night as opposed to once again watching Komarov skate around like an AHL player.
 

doublechili

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Bingo. I LOVE Cizikas, but simply as a philosophy you should not be spending more than 2M on your 4th line - Much less 3.5M. Look at the teams that are generally winning Cups - They have a much greater disparity between the contracts on their 1st line vs 4th line, and thus a lot more skill on those top lines. The kind of skill that might've scored 1 measly goal last night as opposed to once again watching Komarov skate around like an AHL player.
Conversely, come playoff time our 4th line impacts games, unlike most other 4th lines. Is that worth $7-8 million?
 
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NC 1972

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Bingo. I LOVE Cizikas, but simply as a philosophy you should not be spending more than 2M on your 4th line - Much less 3.5M. Look at the teams that are generally winning Cups - They have a much greater disparity between the contracts on their 1st line vs 4th line, and thus a lot more skill on those top lines. The kind of skill that might've scored 1 measly goal last night as opposed to once again watching Komarov skate around like an AHL player.
We had a legitimate offensive player on the taxi squad that could have been an asset in the goal scoring department, but the coach was enamored with the play of Zajac,Wahlstrom lost his spot in the lineup due to injury, if healthy he should have been in the lineup he's actually a game changer.
 

periferal

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Conversely, come playoff time our 4th line impacts games, unlike most other 4th lines. Is that worth $7-8 million?


Despite all the "impact" that the 4th line has on games, we're playing golf right now, so obviously it's not good enough.

I love Martin, Cizikas, and Clutter, but if one or more of them has to go so that we can score at least one goal in a game 7 (much less win a series before game 7), then that is what has to happen.

The more you improve your team the more you improve your odds of winning. And since no one is above the team if any player was traded/let go to get a more talented/character player then you have to make that move.

Unfortunately right now the biggest players who are hurting the team are: Ladd and Komarov...And it's because of their contracts which total 7.3M for 21-22. If Lou had an additional 7.3M he could resign our 3 big RFAs and probably resign Cizikas with another move.

That said in 2 years when Ladd, Komarov, Leddy, Clutterbuck, and basically every bad contract above 3M is off the books Lou will be able the navigate the market much more freely. The issue is keeping the team a Cup contender, much less improving them, and still having assets/young talent to work with in 2023. That is going to be nearly impossible.
 

doublechili

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Despite all the "impact" that the 4th line has on games, we're playing golf right now, so obviously it's not good enough.

I love Martin, Cizikas, and Clutter, but if one or more of them has to go so that we can score at least one goal in a game 7 (much less win a series before game 7), then that is what has to happen.
McDavid has been playing golf for weeks, so maybe we can get him cheap from EDM. According to the "bottom line" logic, anyway. ;)

Trotz likes to roll 4 lines, so a strong 3rd and 4th line is important to him. And it's not just about scoring - the Isles' 4th line wears down the opposition (ask Brandon Carlo). So you let Cizikas walk to save, what, $1-2 million after you pay his replacement? At what cost? Sometimes the reasons for winning aren't obvious. Joe Torre's Yankees wore down opposing teams because their hitters were patient and had good eyes and got starters' pitch counts up and got to the bullpen. And the Yankees had a great bullpen, so they'd always win the last couple of innings.

Getting Lee back and the maturing of Wahlstrom, Dobson, Beauvillier and even Barzal will go a long way. I trust Lou to make the right moves, but we'll see.
 

leeroggy

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McDavid has been playing golf for weeks, so maybe we can get him cheap from EDM. According to the "bottom line" logic, anyway. ;)

Trotz likes to roll 4 lines, so a strong 3rd and 4th line is important to him. And it's not just about scoring - the Isles' 4th line wears down the opposition (ask Brandon Carlo). So you let Cizikas walk to save, what, $1-2 million after you pay his replacement? At what cost? Sometimes the reasons for winning aren't obvious. Joe Torre's Yankees wore down opposing teams because their hitters were patient and had good eyes and got starters' pitch counts up and got to the bullpen. And the Yankees had a great bullpen, so they'd always win the last couple of innings.

Getting Lee back and the maturing of Wahlstrom, Dobson, Beauvillier and even Barzal will go a long way. I trust Lou to make the right moves, but we'll see.

But can that 4th line hold up to BOTH a normal 82-game schedule PLUS a playoff run? As I've pointed out, in the last 30+ games THIS season they produced pretty much NOTHING offensively (maybe 4 goals total?) before they played a role in the playoffs. Over 82 games I see either more time spent on IR for them or an even longer drought and at $8 million+ you are playing with fire with missing the playoffs entirely. Remember we clinched a spot with like 2 games left. 56 games versus 82 is a whole different ballgame for an aging line that HAS to play physical to be effective.
 

The Real JT

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McDavid has been playing golf for weeks, so maybe we can get him cheap from EDM. According to the "bottom line" logic, anyway. ;)

Trotz likes to roll 4 lines, so a strong 3rd and 4th line is important to him. And it's not just about scoring - the Isles' 4th line wears down the opposition (ask Brandon Carlo). So you let Cizikas walk to save, what, $1-2 million after you pay his replacement? At what cost? Sometimes the reasons for winning aren't obvious. Joe Torre's Yankees wore down opposing teams because their hitters were patient and had good eyes and got starters' pitch counts up and got to the bullpen. And the Yankees had a great bullpen, so they'd always win the last couple of innings.

Getting Lee back and the maturing of Wahlstrom, Dobson, Beauvillier and even Barzal will go a long way. I trust Lou to make the right moves, but we'll see.

I'd hate to see Cizikas walk but unless he takes a sizable pay cut we have to let him go considering our cap situation.

I don't meanthis to be overly critical but he's already lost a step. At his age we can expect less production with a new contract.

It's a calculated risk letting him go but remember many of us were unhappy when Nielson and Okposo left. How'd that work out?
 

doublechili

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I'd hate to see Cizikas walk but unless he takes a sizable pay cut we have to let him go considering our cap situation.

I don't meanthis to be overly critical but he's already lost a step. At his age we can expect less production with a new contract.

It's a calculated risk letting him go but remember many of us were unhappy when Nielson and Okposo left. How'd that work out?
You had me until the Nielsen/Okposo comment. I was fine with both of them leaving at the time. Nielsen was a nice player for us but in the playoff years against WAS and then PIT he showed he was not a playoff warrior (and made gaffes at crucial times in both series [edit: it may have been WAS, not TB, with the gaffe - Kuznetsov goal I think] ). And KO seemed like a great guy but was a puck management disaster.
 
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