Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21 Pt. II

[Seph]

Weren't Pelech and Pulock both developed under him or was he with the big club then?

Yes, both of them played 3 seasons under Thompson. Mayfield did as well. So, Thompson developed the top pairing and half of the 2nd pairing for the team that just went 2nd best in the league for goals against. Seems all right to me.

 

[PK Cronin]

On any other team Pulock would've been playing NHL hockey by year 1 but this was the Garth Snow Islanders. For the sake of argument ill cede both players but go on tell me what project player flourished under his tutelage. Bridgeport still didnt make the playoffs this year again. What other player came out of Bridgeport and said I own my successes to to Thomspon? This is the prospect thread.. In all honesty I dont get easily excited for a guy who we wont see in 3 year and will spend that time with a Boston leftover from a failed dark era.

I was just asking because time becomes a blur sometimes, I don't really get into the Thompson stuff too much because I really don't know. Without paying close attention I'd say he's struggled to develop forwards but has done a nice job with our defense. How the prospects rank before they get to him, that I don't know much about and just go by what our experts on here say and what I read.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Before we pop open the champagne for our prospects lets remember that Brent Thomspon still coaches in Bridgeport and has been utterly awful at it. Can anyone here really tell me that he has developed any talent?

Just throwing some names out there. You can tell us if Thompson deserves any credit

Aside from Pulock (163 games), Pelech (101) and Mayfield (223) we have:
Oliver Wahlstrom. (50)
Brock Nelson (71)
Anders Lee (69)
Casey Cizekas (83)
Devon Toews (130)
Nino Niederreiter (80)
Alan Quine (196)

Perhaps Ryan Strome (55) would have benefitted with a longer stay in Bridgeport.
Noah Dobson (0) may have benefited.

All we can say is Lou kept him around when he really didn’t have to probably because he has had success turning out players with defensive discipline.

Perhaps there is a shortcoming when it comes to wins and losses and playoffs but Lou stuck with him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

As mentioned on another thread, Isles last pick in the 2019 draft Cole Coskey had 2 less points in 9 less games than Isles first pick in 2019 Simon Holmstrom. There are 2 ways of looking at this, either Coskey was a promising late overager pick or Simon needs to pick it up next season.

 

[Seph]

As mentioned on another thread, Isles last pick in the 2019 draft Cole Coskey had 2 less points in 9 less games than Isles first pick in 2019 Simon Holmstrom. There are 2 ways of looking at this, either Coskey was a promising late overager pick or Simon needs to pick it up next season.

It'd be nice if Coskey is a promising late pick, but I feel like him being 2 years older than Holmstrom is probably the most notable factor here.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

We've discussed at times just what promising forwards Thompson had who haven't panned out and went elsewhere to be viable NHLers.

Some have mentioned Verhaeghe, although he had one promising season here (split between the AHL and ECHL) and was then traded by Snow for another asset Snow wished to have in the system, so he wasn't a guy we "gave up on" or anything like that. Thompson certainly didn't mess up with him. He was just starting to come into his own before being traded.

Thus, the biggest names we can think of are Dal Colle, Ho-Sang, and Wahlstrom.

Well, the latter is now kind of out of that "Thompson failed him" category. He's gonna make his way in this league and has already been important in his rookie season.

Dal Colle actually was a PPG player when he came up and he hasn't gone back down. We've all seen him a good bit and he's going to have to continue establishing himself as a lower line checking forward, because he's not going to be earning an NHL check as a scorer.

Or who knows, he may be a VERY late bloomer. But I can't watch this guy and think "Thompson botched him up".

Ho-Sang is the only one we can think of now, but he's not gone somewhere else and succeeded. In fact, he did little with the San Antonio Rampage and then went through two SHL teams this season, hardly doing a thing with either, and actually having been booted out of the first team after what, six games?

What I'm getting at is that there really is no example of a surefire talent who has worked with Thompson and seen his career simply go down the drain, only to go somewhere else and succeed. One can't sincerely come to that conclusion.

In addition, and we've mentioned this in other posts, most impact NHLers nowadays who were seen as such as prospects don't really go through the AHL anymore. The Barzals and Beauvilliers of the world pretty much go straight to the show.

HOLMSTROM:
He's the current case study. What happens to him under Thompson's tutelage?

Unfortunately, this isn't really a strong form of measurement either. Holmstrom was a surprising 1st rounder who was then brought over immediately as an 18-year-old who had missed half the season in his draft year and had 3 different injuries along the way.

This move was extremely unorthodox as you're just not going to see many NHL teams doing this, especially with Swedes who are scheduled to be playing in a combination of a very strong junior circuit and the SHL, widely considered the 3rd best pro league around. There was really no rush to bring him over and after 1.5 seasons, we can't really see any reason to have believed that he was "almost" NHL ready.

In general, there are more and more people in Sweden who are very critically looking at how NHL teams pull these kids over so early, often doing so before they've even become established SHL players. Looking over the past 10-15 years, the best Swedes in the NHL have been the ones who were allowed or managed to be strong SHL producers before coming over.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Just throwing some names out there. You can tell us if Thompson deserves any credit

Aside from Pulock (163 games), Pelech (101) and Mayfield (223) we have:
Oliver Wahlstrom. (50)
Brock Nelson (71)
Anders Lee (69)
Casey Cizekas (83)
Devon Toews (130)
Nino Niederreiter (80)
Alan Quine (196)

Thompson definitely deserves the credit for Toews. No doubt about it.

 

[BarzyClub]

We've discussed at times just what promising forwards Thompson had who haven't panned out and went elsewhere to be viable NHLers.

Some have mentioned Verhaeghe, although he had one promising season here (split between the AHL and ECHL) and was then traded by Snow for another asset Snow wished to have in the system, so he wasn't a guy we "gave up on" or anything like that. Thompson certainly didn't mess up with him. He was just starting to come into his own before being traded.

Thus, the biggest names we can think of are Dal Colle, Ho-Sang, and Wahlstrom.

Well, the latter is now kind of out of that "Thompson failed him" category. He's gonna make his way in this league and has already been important in his rookie season.

Dal Colle actually was a PPG player when he came up and he hasn't gone back down. We've all seen him a good bit and he's going to have to continue establishing himself as a lower line checking forward, because he's not going to be earning an NHL check as a scorer.

Or who knows, he may be a VERY late bloomer. But I can't watch this guy and think "Thompson botched him up".

Ho-Sang is the only one we can think of now, but he's not gone somewhere else and succeeded. In fact, he did little with the San Antonio Rampage and then went through two SHL teams this season, hardly doing a thing with either, and actually having been booted out of the first team after what, six games?

What I'm getting at is that there really is no example of a surefire talent who has worked with Thompson and seen his career simply go down the drain, only to go somewhere else and succeed. One can't sincerely come to that conclusion.

In addition, and we've mentioned this in other posts, most impact NHLers nowadays who were seen as such as prospects don't really go through the AHL anymore. The Barzals and Beauvilliers of the world pretty much go straight to the show.

HOLMSTROM:
He's the current case study. What happens to him under Thompson's tutelage?

Unfortunately, this isn't really a strong form of measurement either. Holmstrom was a surprising 1st rounder who was then brought over immediately as an 18-year-old who had missed half the season in his draft year and had 3 different injuries along the way.

This move was extremely unorthodox as you're just not going to see many NHL teams doing this, especially with Swedes who are scheduled to be playing in a combination of a very strong junior circuit and the SHL, widely considered the 3rd best pro league around. There was really no rush to bring him over and after 1.5 seasons, we can't really see any reason to have believed that he was "almost" NHL ready.

In general, there are more and more people in Sweden who are very critically looking at how NHL teams pull these kids over so early, often doing so before they've even become established SHL players. Looking over the past 10-15 years, the best Swedes in the NHL have been the ones who were allowed or managed to be strong SHL producers before coming over.

Re : Holmstrom

I think part of the reason he’s here is to oversee his medical care and to see that he’s recovering properly from his draft year injuries. They probably also think he’s closer to being ready than other do. Really the only two reasons I can think of for him being in the AHL so soon.

 

[PWJunior]

Re : Holmstrom

I think part of the reason he’s here is to oversee his medical care and to see that he’s recovering properly from his draft year injuries. They probably also think he’s closer to being ready than other do. Really the only two reasons I can think of for him being in the AHL so soon.

Under Lou and Trotz, the preference is clearly to have the prized kids develop in the backyard so the organization can dictate their development. Under Snow, the kids were largely left alone to develop at their respective leagues until they were in their D+3 year. Under Lou, all the kids started pro (AHL or NHL) in their D+2 when they were still eligible for their Junior league.

Dobson - NHL at D+2
Wahlstrom - AHL and NHL 9 games in his D+2
Wilde - AHL in his D+2 to start, sent back to OHL
Holmstrom - AHL in D+1 and D+2
Bolduc - AHL in D+2

That's a pretty big departure from the previous regime. I trust Lou and company to watch over these kids rather than some CHL coach.

 

[scott99]

I will stay with my prediction. Holmstrom was a horrible pick, and will play most of his career in Sweden. It was like they were trying to prove they are the smartest guys in the room, instead they wind up with egg on their faces.

Instead of taking the great talents that were still there, they wasted the ONLY 1st round pick we have in 3 years on garbage.

 

[thedonger]

Where do you guys see Kieffer Bellows in the mix here?

 

[sebsisles]

Where do you guys see Kieffer Bellows in the mix here?

Probably will be exposed and taken by Seattle imo

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Where do you guys see Kieffer Bellows in the mix here?

If I am the Seattle GM, he would be on my shortlist of players taken from the Islanders. VGK did well with Tuch and Theodore, Bellows would be a good calculated risk. I don't know what it is exactly, but there seems to be something that Trotz is not fond in his game or his off ice habits.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Ok, so these are the first round pick potential busts:

Dal Colle. #5 2014 - appeared to be a good pick at the time, now considered a bottom 6 forward at best.
Ho Sang #28 2014 - bust

Bellows #19 2016 - jury is still out. Perhaps a product of a team that is focused on veteran roster to go on a post season run and would be a regular NHL player on a lesser/rebuilding team.

Holmstrom #23 2019 - only turned 20 years old. Still has 2-4 years to develop into a top 6 NHL forward.

 

[steveat]

The way you guys are talking about Holmstrom reminds me of sentiments before Barzal came in. Nobody was sure...they took a shot at a player that was injured before the draft....why does colorado want him in the Duchene trade...he doesn't seem overly flashy...does he even have talent....he came up for 2 games and botched it...is he even good...bah blah

Holstrom will be FINE. Again, he's very Pasternak-esque in his lay style...it's a question of strength, not talent.

 

[MJF]

The way you guys are talking about Holmstrom reminds me of sentiments before Barzal came in. Nobody was sure...they took a shot at a player that was injured before the draft....why does colorado want him in the Duchene trade...he doesn't seem overly flashy...does he even have talent....he came up for 2 games and botched it...is he even good...bah blah

Holstrom will be FINE. Again, he's very Pasternak-esque in his lay style...it's a question of strength, not talent.

Pastrnak is a high benchmark for Holmstrom. I haven't seen that much of his ability to snipe yet. But I agree with you about him growing physically. He's still lanky in appearance and his frame will fill in (same thing with Noah Dobson). I've also noticed that Holmstrom will go to the boards to battle for the puck. Seems like he may come out of Bridgeport as a well rounded player and not simply an all-offense kind of guy.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Frankly the only prospect that caught my eye in BP this year was Bolduc. The hope is he can become the Pelech to Pulock for Dobson one day. They were drafted one year apart, if he can keep developing. We may have something nice here in a few years.

 

[Shiba]

I think Newkirk is going to be a solid player for us in the future. Won’t be a star, but he could be the new Cizikas with maybe a touch more offensive production.

 

[NC 1972]

The way you guys are talking about Holmstrom reminds me of sentiments before Barzal came in. Nobody was sure...they took a shot at a player that was injured before the draft....why does colorado want him in the Duchene trade...he doesn't seem overly flashy...does he even have talent....he came up for 2 games and botched it...is he even good...bah blah

Holstrom will be FINE. Again, he's very Pasternak-esque in his lay style...it's a question of strength, not talent.

Not true Barzal’s talents were well known he fell due to the injury sustained during locker room high jinx, thankfully Edmonton had a hard on for native son Griffin Reinhardt and we were able to trade up and grab him after Boston passed on him 3 times. No one was trading up for Holmstrom rumors had it the Islanders jumped on him because another team was interested in him.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Under Lou and Trotz, the preference is clearly to have the prized kids develop in the backyard so the organization can dictate their development. Under Snow, the kids were largely left alone to develop at their respective leagues until they were in their D+3 year. Under Lou, all the kids started pro (AHL or NHL) in their D+2 when they were still eligible for their Junior league.

Dobson - NHL at D+2
Wahlstrom - AHL and NHL 9 games in his D+2
Wilde - AHL in his D+2 to start, sent back to OHL
Holmstrom - AHL in D+1 and D+2
Bolduc - AHL in D+2

That's a pretty big departure from the previous regime. I trust Lou and company to watch over these kids rather than some CHL coach.

The currently still unsigned Ruslan Iskhakov kind of breaks that pattern there a wee bit.

In general, I love what they're doing, especially with players from North America.

We're just going to have to wait and see with Holmstrom.

Whenever I've talked about it, I've used the word "unorthodox", because you just don't see teams doing that. I don't believe the decision to bring him over right away had anything to do with "being different from Snow" - not saying that you are insinuating that.

But then again, I'm one of the heavy followers of the Swedish hockey scene here and have a strong belief in what kind of NHL player you'll eventually get if you let your Swedish prospects go the path available to top talents there.

IMHO, I'd bet that Holmstrom is not currently at the point they envisioned when they decided to give him his ELC and bring him over as the AHL's youngest player. Whatever voices in the organization felt he was worth taking in the first round, prolly had a real good idea of what projectory they expected of his career path - and I doub they feel he's on it.

All the other prospects... Love seeing them brought in right after juniors/college.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

If I am the Seattle GM, he would be on my shortlist of players taken from the Islanders. VGK did well with Tuch and Theodore, Bellows would be a good calculated risk. I don't know what it is exactly, but there seems to be something that Trotz is not fond in his game or his off ice habits.

They DID do well with those two.

BUT they did not select them in the expansion draft. Instead, they were able to pick them up in ED trades so as not to take other players MIN and ANA had to expose.

And both have proven it was a mistake by their teams to move them.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

The way you guys are talking about Holmstrom reminds me of sentiments before Barzal came in. Nobody was sure...they took a shot at a player that was injured before the draft....why does colorado want him in the Duchene trade...he doesn't seem overly flashy...does he even have talent....he came up for 2 games and botched it...is he even good...bah blah

Holstrom will be FINE. Again, he's very Pasternak-esque in his lay style...it's a question of strength, not talent.

I know this has been mentioned before (did you bring up the Pastrnak comparison?), but we should denote that Pastrnak had 28 points in 25 AHL games as a rookie before being brought up and adding 27 points in 46 NHL games.

It's hard to think he's all that Pastrnakesque when talking about a guy who has been one of the NHL's most oustanding young players the past 5-6 years.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

The way you guys are talking about Holmstrom reminds me of sentiments before Barzal came in. Nobody was sure...they took a shot at a player that was injured before the draft....why does colorado want him in the Duchene trade...he doesn't seem overly flashy...does he even have talent....he came up for 2 games and botched it...is he even good...bah blah

Holstrom will be FINE. Again, he's very Pasternak-esque in his lay style...it's a question of strength, not talent.

PS)

Don't really see the talk about Holmstrom being anything close to Barzal.

I think we were pretty much all stoked about him being drafted and then couldn't wait for him to start his career here.

But I do remember that one season where he played 2 games and then went back to Portland, where he didn't score much, but had a shitload of assists. You may be referring to some posters having a few doubts about just how much of an impact he was going to be able to have.

But I'd bet that most of those posters weren't actually watching him play, but rather stat-watching.

Which is normal and natural.

 

[IslesNorway]

The times I have watched Holmstrom in bridgeport he seems an okay player with a good shot and decent speed, but there's nothing really fancy about him. He doesn't have any standout features but he does seem to get a lot of ice time and is noticeable out there..

 

[doublechili]

The times I have watched Holmstrom in bridgeport he seems an okay player with a good shot and decent speed, but there's nothing really fancy about him. He doesn't have any standout features but he does seem to get a lot of ice time and is noticeable out there..

Heey, Simon Holmstrom (ooh aah), I wanna know....