Is Mitch Marner the 2nd best RW in the game, right behind Kucherov?

[danpantz]

Why is a 22 or 24 game sample size more appropriate than a 483+ game sample size?

Okay

Since Marner entered the league.

Pasta - 435 gp , 229 goals, 483 points for a 1.11 p/gp
Marner - 451 gp, 145 goals , 483 points for a 1.08 p/gp

The points are only half the story. Along with that Marner is pretty great defensively, whereas Pastrnak is "okay". Overall, Pastrnak is a better goal scorer..........and that's it. Marner wins everywhere else.

Except for playoff performance

 

[Auston Marlander]

Okay

Since Marner entered the league.

Pasta - 435 gp , 229 goals, 483 points for a 1.11 p/gp
Marner - 451 gp, 145 goals , 483 points for a 1.08 p/gp



Except for playoff performance

They are very close, near identical for overall point production. However when you look at their full impact on the game Marner is ahead. The defensive gap is undeniable.

 

[danpantz]

They are very close, near identical for overall point production. However when you look at their full impact on the game Marner is ahead. The defensive gap is undeniable.

You'll never hear me say Pasta is better than Marner defensively. That's not Pasta's game.

 

[MAB1]

Why is a 22 or 24 game sample size more appropriate than a 483+ game sample size?

because he has no argument without it lmao

 

[Rob Brown]

You'll never hear me say Pasta is better than Marner defensively. That's not Pasta's game.

Ok but that's part of the discussion when debating who is the better player. It's not all points. So if their points are close but Marner is significantly better defensively, plays on the PK etc., isn't that telling?

 

[MAB1]

Okay

Since Marner entered the league.

Pasta - 435 gp , 229 goals, 483 points for a 1.11 p/gp
Marner - 451 gp, 145 goals , 483 points for a 1.08 p/gp



Except for playoff performance

AKA you removing Pasta's worst seasons his rookie year and sophmore year, if you're comparing numbers at least be consistent lmfao.

Did you stop taking math after grade 5 or something?

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

"Mines bigger!"
"No! Mines bigger!"
"No! Can't you see mines bigger!"
"As you can clearly see, mines bigger"

 

[Auston Marlander]

You'll never hear me say Pasta is better than Marner defensively. That's not Pasta's game.

So their offence is a wash, this means you agree Marner is a better/more valuable RW.

 

[Rob Brown]

"Mines bigger!"
"No! Mines bigger!"
"No! Can't you see mines bigger!"
"As you can clearly see, mines bigger"

You basically just described any thread here, lol.

AKA you removing Pasta's worst seasons his rookie year and sophmore year, if you're comparing numbers at least be consistent lmfao.

Did you stop taking math after grade 5 or something?

Yeah it's weird to remove Pasta's first two seasons when he had the lowest points totals but leaving in Marner's first two seasons lol.

 

[danpantz]

Oh boy. Add to that, Marner was 10th in Selke votes last year and looking like he'll get more than that this year.........they are BOTH good?

And Pasta has a Rocket and a top 4 hart finish.

My issue was with everyone using the season Pasta's kid died to prove Marner is better offensively than Pasta.

 

[Rob Brown]

And Pasta has a Rocket and a top 4 hart finish.

My issue was with everyone using the season Pasta's kid died to prove Marner is better offensively than Pasta.

No, people are referencing career totals, and also mentioning other facets of their games like defense.

 

[danpantz]

You basically just described any thread here, lol.


Yeah it's weird to remove Pasta's first two seasons when he had the lowest points totals but leaving in Marner's first two seasons lol.

Pasta's first two seasons he was playing part time in the AHL and getting like 10 minutes a night in the NHL at 18 years old as a late first rounder on a good team.

Marner was getting 17 minutes a night as the 4th overall pick on a bad team at an older age.

No, people are referencing career totals, and also mentioning other facets of their games like defense.

That's not who I originally responded too though.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

You basically just described any thread here, lol.

Basically, and it shows, haha.

If people need the "reassurance" that everyone thinks their player is the 2nd best, I mean, have at it. Just the way it sounds reading through is funny, that's all.

 

[MAB1]

And Pasta has a Rocket and a top 4 hart finish.

My issue was with everyone using the season Pasta's kid died to prove Marner is better offensively than Pasta.

So your issue is that apparently people are using 1 season to prove that Marner > Pasta

(Even though that hasn't been the case with people citing their entire career and you doing this weird stat manipulation to show them to be more even)

And your rebuttal is talking about 1 season where Pasta > Marner

You can't make this stuff up lmfao.

 

[Rob Brown]

Pasta's first two seasons he was playing part time in the AHL and getting like 10 minutes a night in the NHL at 18 years old as a late first rounder on a good team.

Marner was getting 17 minutes a night as the 4th overall pick on a bad team at an older age.

Sure, but if you don't think we should look strictly at last season and instead want a bigger sample size, you can't then remove Pasta's first two years strictly because it paints a better story.

Basically, and it shows, haha.

If people need the "reassurance" that everyone thinks their player is the 2nd best, I mean, have at it. Just the way it sounds reading through is funny, that's all.

Yeah at the end of the day all the RWs mentioned here (Marner, Rantanen, Kucherov, Pasta etc.) are all great and the Leafs would be happy with Pasta and the Bruins would be happy with Marner.

 

[danpantz]

So your issue is that apparently people are using 1 season to prove that Marner > Pasta

(Even though that hasn't been the case with people citing their entire career and you doing this weird stat manipulation to show them to be more even)

And your rebuttal is talking about 1 season where Pasta > Marner

You can't make this stuff up lmfao.

Pasta has outscored Marner in 4 of the last 6 seasons and is outscoring him this season

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I think there are 7 top guys:

Kucherov, Pasta, Rantanen, Marner, Stone, Panarin, M. Tkachuk

Not sure where I would rank Marner in that group, but I don't see much gap between any of them & they are all legit superstar-level players.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Marner just needs to score in the playoffs and you clowns can be quiet

 

[MAB1]

Pasta has outscored Marner in 4 of the last 6 seasons and is outscoring him this season

Marner career ppg: 1.07
Pasta career ppg: 1.00

No amount of mental gymnastics you do will change that.

 

[danpantz]

Marner career ppg: 1.07
Pasta career ppg: 1.00

No amount of mental gymnastics you do will change that.

Now do the playoffs

 

[Auston Marlander]

Pasta has outscored Marner in 4 of the last 6 seasons and is outscoring him this season

But this isn't just about scoring. It's about the overall better/more impactful player. Do you disagree that Marner is overall better/impactful when looking at the total game?

My scoring is:
Marner - Offense - 9/10 & Defense 8/10 = 17/20 Total
Pasta - Offense - 9/10 & Defense 5/10 = 14/20 total

 

[Rob Brown]

Now do the playoffs

Every time you post it's a different angle. First we should look at more than just last season, then their full careers, then remove Pasta's first two, then look at the last 6 years, then look at playoffs. All while you admit that Marner is far superior defensively, which is obviously important when debating who is a better overall player.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner has scored more than 67 points in a season twice and 5X5 in playoffs turns into a perimeter player

But I’m reading he’s the second coming of Rick Middleton

Ha. Rick Middleton wasnt even a ppg career player. Marner is well past that. No...he defintively isn't Middleton. He will actually make the hall of fame.

 

[danpantz]

But this isn't just about scoring. It's about the overall better/more impactful player. Do you disagree that Marner is overall better/impactful when looking at the total game?

My scoring is:
Marner - Offense - 9/10 & Defense 8/10 = 17/20 Total
Pasta - Offense - 9/10 & Defense 5/10 = 14/20 total

I keep responding to people talking about offense. I've admitted that Marner is better defensively.

My scoring is Marner - Offense 9/10, Defense 8/10 , playoffs 5/10 = 23/30
Pastrnak - Offense 10/10 , Defense 6/10 (Marner has been on the ice for more 5v5 goals against but Pasta doesn't kill penalties) , Playoffs 9/10 = 25 / 30

Every time you post it's a different angle. First we should look at more than just last season, then their full careers, then remove Pasta's first two, then look at the last 6 years, then look at playoffs. All while you admit that Marner is far superior defensively, which is obviously important when debating who is a better overall player.

Well you guys all are ignoring Playoffs which is a pretty big part of it.

Marner is better defensively than Pasta because he kills penalties. 5v5 they are very similar this year with Pasta not playing with Bergeron and Marchand.

Pasta is a much better goal scorer, but Marner produces about the same amount of points in the regular season.

Playoff performances aren't even close. Pasta performs better in the playoffs, Marner performs worse.

 

[Rob Brown]

I keep responding to people talking about offense. I've admitted that Marner is better defensively.

My scoring is Marner - Offense 9/10, Defense 8/10 , playoffs 5/10 = 23/30
Pastrnak - Offense 10/10 , Defense 6/10 (Marner has been on the ice for more 5v5 goals against but Pasta doesn't kill penalties) , Playoffs 9/10 = 25 / 30



Well you guys all are ignoring Playoffs which is a pretty big part of it.

These numbers don't even make sense. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as mentioned, can't really go wrong with either of them.