Is Mcdavid the greatest Athlete in the big 4 Sports since Lebron James?

[Dr Beinfest]

Uh no that would be Messi

Gonna have to call BS post on this, Messin and LeBron are contemporaries. These guys are barely a year apart from professional debuts and are both wrapping up their careers now.

Also, OP said 4 NA sports. And this thread is lacking enough Mahommes. He’s harder to say in numbers, but time will tell there.

 

[Metal God]

For sure. What a great player.

 

[PromisedLand]

Messi is probably by far the most dominant athlete of this generation.

A record 7 Ballon d'Or's voted as the best player in the world, 5-2nd place finishes and a 3rd place finish.
A record 6 Golden Shoes as the Euro football leading scorer,
A record 6 La Liga MVP's
A record 8 times leading La Liga in goals.
A record 80 Champions league goals, a record 474 Liga career goals, the record for most goals in a Liga season with 50.

His dominance over the modern football world is unmatched and he went up against some pretty stiff competition during that time frame.

He's won basically everything outside of a WC and is going to play in a final soon so he might win that as well.

Given the talent pool for football is essentially world wide, which is bigger than any other sport. The fact that one guy has had this much dominance over that talent pool is pretty crazy.

You could take any NHLer and put them on a pitch with Messi and he'd run circles around them.

What about this guy?

 

[Daximus]

What about this guy?

Ovi has a chance if he converts now.

 

[psycat]

Hard to compare. Personally, I can't put him ahead of the best soccer or basketball players because those sports have global talent pools. In terms of dominance, he's up there for sure.

Basketball "global talent pool" when it's mostly Americans above 2 meters of height, smallest pool of any sport per default due to the height "requirement, people of average height are discouraged from playing from the start.

It's not a very popular sport outside a few select countries either.

Hard to compare a borderline fringe sport to something like football and Messi got a real case for being GOAT in it(McDavid won't get close to Gretzky) then again the sport is deadly boring so there's that. Can't wait for the World Cup to be over and hopefully Argentina loses so I don't have to hear more about it. Downside is if France win again I will never hear the end of how Mbappe is now the new GOAT till another great player comes along of course. Guess best thing is if Morocco somehow wins but it won't be the best for the cars of France.

Djokovic is very likely both the best and greatest tennis player of all time, don't know if that puts him in the conversation. Pogacar in cycling is another name to consider considering what he has done at his age.

Of course I realize the thread is about the "big 4 sports" but I would strongly contest that they are the "big 4" sports to begin with, if that's set in stone I have no idea since I would never watch any American football, basketball or baseball-

I do know McDavids case for being the GOAT is nonexistant at this point and I consider him pretty much a shoein for 5th of all time unless something unexpected(in either direction) happens so it's not like I am any hater.

 

[MoneyManny]

How the hell can McDavid be compared to GOATs when he's never even come close to a championship yet? Across all sports he's not even close to top 100 athlete in the 2000s.

Tom Brady has 17 division titles, 13 AFC championship games, 10 super bowl appearances and 7 rings. And he did it with 2 different coaches/teams playing by far the most influential position in football. He led his team to a championship at like 43 years old.

McDavid has a loooooong road ahead.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

no he doesnt. Even if you look at this season alone he is about the same as his peers, especially if you look at even strength points per 60 mins.

View attachment 621395

Here are the stats since McDavid's rookie season. Despite injuries, he still is 55 EVP up on second place.

Not sure what the fascination is with "even strength points" anyway. McDavid is the best player at even strength and on the power play...

 

[nowhereman]

After reading that first page, I'm really starting to wonder if McDavid is getting overrated by many. He's not Wayne Gretzky... no one is.

 

[Raym11]

How the hell can McDavid be compared to GOATs when he's never even come close to a championship yet? Across all sports he's not even close to top 100 athlete in the 2000s.

Tom Brady has 17 division titles, 13 AFC championship games, 10 super bowl appearances and 7 rings. And he did it with 2 different coaches/teams playing by far the most influential position in football. He led his team to a championship at like 43 years old.

McDavid has a loooooong road ahead.

Trout and Ohtani are a part of one of the worst teams in baseball and they are quite clearly 2 of the best players to ever play baseball.

Lemieux took 6 years to win his first cup in the b2b. Gretzky never won a cup after being traded - The Oilers literally won again 2 years after he was gone.- he retired in 1999..... 11 years after the Oilers saga.


Lebron didnt win anything until he was in Miami on a super team 8 years later.


Mcdavid just put up generational numbers in the playoffs... His team has 0 defensive capabilities. He's clearly a GOAT level player. Any individual award he feels like winning he can. He's either the MVP or in the running for it every year and sets the bar for the art ross race.

Sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are in a team sport, but I mean football if you're Brady it's like being on the powerplay the entire game, yes. Look at Hasek, a singular stanley cup in the latter half of his career.

Are all of these guys trash compared to Bill Russell? Maybe

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

I just assume big 4 meant the 4 top NA leagues - NHL , NBA, NFL, and MLB.

If that's the case then maybe. Like others have said - Trout could have been the most dominant player in generations but his health and lack of team support held him back. You could also argue for Curry, who is going to retire a top 10 player all time, revolutionized a sport , and spearheaded a dynasty while racking up hardware. For the NFL , if Brady doesn't count because he came after LeBron - there is actually a case for Aaron Rodgers , who is now being seen as a bit of an under achiever in the postseason but he does have a SB and mvp and 4 MVPs on top of that. Mahomes will likely be in the conversation too as his first few seasons have been historic individually and he has already won a title and played in multiple SBs.

But it's possible it is McDavid, relative to his sport

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

And his only tie came against Deontay Wilder, who is 43-2-1 in his heavyweight career. His 2 losses? To Fury.

When they're not fighting each other, Wilder and Fury have won every single fight they've been in. Wilder is 43-0 and Fury is 31-0.

The draw should've been a win for Wilder and I hate the character, so zero bias here. And Fury came really close to losing the 3rd fight, hitting the mat twice in one round.

Imo, both would've had a hard time with a prime Tyson. Although, Fury would've probably Holleyfield him like he did Wilder.

 

[The Podium]

1. Brady
2. Lebron
3. Messi
4. Ohtani
5. McDavid/Mahomes

 

[waitin425]

McDavid is the best hockey player right now. Might be the current best player in their own respective sports.

Lebron is not in a tier with MJ.

 

[Unsustainable]

Ludicrous

People be forgetting a lot of greats.
What has LBL done over:

MI 6and0 in the finals
Kareem AJ - 6 titles
Wilt Chamberlain - 50pts a game
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird - I would love to have seen Larry get inside of his head every time they played.
Tim Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Bill Russell - 11 titles…
Durant

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Trout and Ohtani are a part of one of the worst teams in baseball and they are quite clearly 2 of the best players to ever play baseball.

Lemieux took 6 years to win his first cup in the b2b. Gretzky never won a cup after being traded - The Oilers literally won again 2 years after he was gone.- he retired in 1999..... 11 years after the Oilers saga.


Lebron didnt win anything until he was in Miami on a super team 8 years later.


Mcdavid just put up generational numbers in the playoffs... His team has 0 defensive capabilities. He's clearly a GOAT level player. Any individual award he feels like winning he can. He's either the MVP or in the running for it every year and sets the bar for the art ross race.

Sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are in a team sport, but I mean football if you're Brady it's like being on the powerplay the entire game, yes. Look at Hasek, a singular stanley cup in the latter half of his career.

Are all of these guys trash compared to Bill Russell? Maybe

Bill Russell. It makes me laugh when people try to pretend that, yet don't realize the immense difference in heights of the NBA in those years. Russell battled mostly guys who were between 6 and 6.5. At first there were half a dozen giants, than a dozen, on over one hundred players.

When MJ came into the league, half of them were taller than him. He had to plow through 2-3 behemoths each game to score, getting constantly hit by shoulders and hands. He literally transformed a league that was mainly driven by its centers.

Personally, I don't put much weight in statistical dominance of static field sports like Cricket and baseball and even stats themselves when comparing different sports, or even the same sport in different eras. One sport's dynamics might make it easier to win a whole bunch of trophies or for stat dominance.

People are way too hung up on stats and do not differentiate eras nor do they account for the difference in physical opposition.

I will always put the GOAT of a physical team sport in front of GOATs from static team sports.

 

[The Podium]

Ohtani is insane but he's neither the best pitcher nor best hitter so I wouldn't put his overall impact at the same level.

To put into context what Ohtani is doing, his Impact is essentially that of a Vezina caliber goalie combined with a top 5-10 offensive player in the league

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Basketball "global talent pool" when it's mostly Americans above 2 meters of height, smallest pool of any sport per default due to the height "requirement, people of average height are discouraged from playing from the start.

It's not a very popular sport outside a few select countries either.

Hard to compare a borderline fringe sport to something like football and Messi got a real case for being GOAT in it(McDavid won't get close to Gretzky) then again the sport is deadly boring so there's that. Can't wait for the World Cup to be over and hopefully Argentina loses so I don't have to hear more about it. Downside is if France win again I will never hear the end of how Mbappe is now the new GOAT till another great player comes along of course. Guess best thing is if Morocco somehow wins but it won't be the best for the cars of France.

Djokovic is very likely both the best and greatest tennis player of all time, don't know if that puts him in the conversation. Pogacar in cycling is another name to consider considering what he has done at his age.

Of course I realize the thread is about the "big 4 sports" but I would strongly contest that they are the "big 4" sports to begin with, if that's set in stone I have no idea since I would never watch any American football, basketball or baseball-

I do know McDavids case for being the GOAT is nonexistant at this point and I consider him pretty much a shoein for 5th of all time unless something unexpected(in either direction) happens so it's not like I am any hater.

Lol Basketball is practiced by almost a billion people worldwide.

This whole notion of accessibility because of height is assinine. Basing the GOAT on the popularity of the sport is also equally assinine.

What I look at is what is needed physically to dominate that sport.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

To put into context what Ohtani is doing, his Impact is essentially that of a Vezina caliber goalie combined with a top 5-10 offensive player in the league

Like MJ winning MVP and best defensive player. The difference is MJ had to physically battle and dominate much bigger players to create his dominance. Somehow being the best at throwing a ball and swinging a bat should be seen on the same level?

 

[The Podium]

Like MJ winning MVP and best defensive player. The difference is MJ had to physically battle and dominate much bigger players to create his dominance. Somehow being the best at throwing a ball and swinging a bat should be seen on the same level?

Yes? Just because you don’t like the sport doesn’t mean it’s not impressive

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Yes? Just because you don’t like the sport doesn’t mean it’s not impressive

It's not what I said.

Do you need a dictionary?

I love baseball, was super sad the day the Expos left Montreal. Try arguing my point instead of inventing an imaginary bias in lieu of argument.

 

[Ben White]

Yes

 

[The Podium]

It's not what I said.

Do you need a dictionary?

I love baseball, was super sad the day the Expos left Montreal. Try arguing my point instead of inventing an imaginary bias in lieu of argument.

I don’t really understand your point. MJ isn’t even part of this conversation

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I don’t really understand your point. MJ isn’t even part of this conversation

And MJ isn't the point.

 

[Coffey]

You could take any NHLer and put them on a pitch with Messi and he'd run circles around them.

This is not as good of an argument as you think it is.

You could take any goon from the NHL and they could run circles around any soccer player on the rink.

 

[amnesiac]

so since 03?

Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees

Lebron, Kobe, Curry, Durant

McDavid, Crosby, Ovie, Kane

Pujols, ARod, Kershaw, Trout