Not good enough - no playoffs again!

[PlayOn]

Ok more time lol

What a takeaway from my post lol.

The Sens failed to draft, develop and acquire defencemen for years. Chabot, JBD and Thomson were the starting point and that hasn’t worked obviously.

Now you have a 34 year old stop gap in Jensen, Travis Hamonic and Zub who is permanently injured.

What does the D need if not more time and work?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I would move Chabot as part of a retool myself, if I thought we could get anything of value.

I like the guy but he is overpaid and unlikely to garner us a return worth moving him for. So the question is do you move him just to move him, or do you keep him around until you’ve got guys that can take his spot?

For me it’s the latter. If we can actually get something of value back, by all means move him.

Chabot seems to OK when paired with Jensen. So, if he’s got the right partner, he’s isn’t a big issue.

I guess that begs more questions. How long is Jensen going to be around? Maybe they replace Jensen with another similar player if it boils down to that?

I’d wonder if Chabot would fetch a better return if the Senators retained? Could something worthwhile be returned in that scenario?

If they are rebuilding, the motivation is different and different kinds of strategies and moves are made. The focus on cap $ efficiency isn’t as high in a rebuild versus let's say acquiring assets that will be good in the future.

I’m glad I’m not the GM that has to make these difficult decisions. And frankly, another rebuild would be a process that takes time, so I wonder about the pain.

 

[Alex1234]

What a takeaway from my post lol.

The Sens failed to draft, develop and acquire defencemen for years. Chabot, JBD and Thomson were the starting point and that hasn’t worked obviously.

Now you have a 34 year old stop gap in Jensen, Travis Hamonic and Zub who is permanently injured.

What does the D need if not more time and work?

A dismantle!


Chabot has 452 NHL games
Hamonic 860
Zub 261
Jensen 582
Sanderson 176
Kleven 37

How many more games do they need apart from Kleven and maybe Sanderson to get significantly better (not better , significantly better because that's what they need)

They aren't showing signs of getting any better (Sandy could comeback to his usual self) right now

 

[Alex1234]

Chabot seems to OK when paired with Jensen. So, if he’s got the right partner, he’s isn’t a big issue.

I guess that begs more questions. How long is Jensen going to be around? Maybe they replace Jensen with another similar player if it boils down to that?

I’d wonder if Chabot would fetch a better return if the Senators retained? Could something worthwhile be returned in that scenario?

If they are rebuilding, the motivation is different and different kinds of strategies and moves are made. The focus on cap $ efficiency isn’t as high in a rebuild versus let's say acquiring assets that will be good in the future.

I’m glad I’m not the GM that has to make these difficult decisions. And frankly, another rebuild would be a process that takes time, so I wonder about the pain.

Agree
But at the same time if it's what it takes
Clearly this rebuild is not working
It's not like we lose in the 1st or 2nd round for the last 5 years and a retool or couple of acquisitions could propel us
The prospect pool is dried , we aren't waiting for couple of A prospect , and we are bottom 6 (we finished bottom 7 in 2021-22 lol)

 

[ColinM]

It's so depressing to think that a week and a half ago they were 3rd in the division and fresh off a win over Toronto. When it rains it pours.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Trade Tkachuk will be dumbest move,
My list
1. Chabot
2. Norris
3. Zub is cooked
4. somehow Perron
5. Pinto or Greig, not because it is good idea, just because if we want to return something

I agree we need to keep Tkachuk, but he needs someone in the room with just as much character, and one who isn't 36 year old either. We all want Brady to be Alfie 2.0, but he just isn't that guy yet.

As for trading Norris, great, but no one, and I mean not a single GM, will take on that contract unless they send an even worst albatross our way, so we're stuck with him for at least 3 more years unfortunately.

Trading Zub for someone better is also on my wishlist. Perhaps other teams still haven't caught on that his play has gone to shit yet and would send a #3-4 guy our way who can actually defend for a full 60 minute game. I'd also trade Perron at the TDL.

Greig and Pinto I would keep for this season as they have both showed promise and might find their games again with time. I guess if a team is willing to send a 1st round pick for any of the two then you pull the trigger but I doubt anyone would do it.

Chabot is also staying whether we want to or not, at least this season. Maybe if he keeps up his better play until the season ends we can trade him next summer as he will only have three years left on his contract, but I doubt we'd get full value for him.

Everyone else save Sanderson and Bath can get shot into the sun for all I care. We could get something for Giroux at the deadline though.

 

[PlayOn]

A dismantle!


Chabot has 452 NHL games
Hamonic 860
Zub 261
Jensen 582
Sanderson 176
Kleven 37

How many more games do they need apart from Kleven and maybe Sanderson to get significantly better (not better , significantly better because that's what they need)

They aren't showing signs of getting any better (Sandy could comeback to his usual self) right now

My point is that outside of Sanderson and Kleven, these guys are going to be gone in a few years and that’s why the defense needs time to be built. I didn’t say anything about giving these guys more time to prove themselves, just that when you retool it’s going to take time even without trading everyone on the team.

 

[PlayOn]

Chabot seems to OK when paired with Jensen. So, if he’s got the right partner, he’s isn’t a big issue.

I guess that begs more questions. How long is Jensen going to be around? Maybe they replace Jensen with another similar player if it boils down to that?

I’d wonder if Chabot would fetch a better return if the Senators retained? Could something worthwhile be returned in that scenario?

If they are rebuilding, the motivation is different and different kinds of strategies and moves are made. The focus on cap $ efficiency isn’t as high in a rebuild versus let's say acquiring assets that will be good in the future.

I’m glad I’m not the GM that has to make these difficult decisions. And frankly, another rebuild would be a process that takes time, so I wonder about the pain.

They are fair questions. I just think it comes to retool vs rebuild.

If the team did a fire sale, they’d probably retain on Chabot to get a good deal. In a retool, I suspect they will focus on trading players that are in demand so they can restructure the team quickly and leave anyone else to remain “competitive” and insulate the young guys.

I have no idea what they’re thinking but personally I don’t envision the Sens doing a full rebuild or purposely trying to be bad. I don’t think the fanbase has an appetite for a losing team. I see them trying to quickly fix the team and asking for patience in the form of a year or two while they make the changes they want to make.

Maybe we’ll go on a ten game winning streak and none of this will happen. Doubtful but lots of ways this can go still.

 

[Norris4Norris]

So if this losing continues on through December we must be looking ay a significant retool/rebuild.

Do we own our 1st overall this year. Bruce was talking about it the other day. He was saying Andlauer would try to get it postponed and then hopefully Bettman would forget about the fact we owe a 1st.

 

[Stylizer1]

...

ese situations in a long time but before joining the Ottawa Senators, he dominated his peers, becoming one of the best prospects in the world after dominating the CHL and the WJC

2016-2017 (there was more but just listing a few)

CHL Defenseman of the Year
QMJHL Champion
QMJHL Defenseman of the Year (Emile Bouchard Trophy)
QMJHL Playoffs MVP (Guy Lafleur Trophy)
U20 WJC Best Defenseman
U20 WJC Most Valuable Player

What has he done for me lately.............oooooo ooooooo ooooo yeah?

 

[Salva Mea]

Chabot offensive instinct is going down day by day, why ? I dont know
What i saw, Utah will be happy , they badly need LHD, but for us what will be return i dont know,
If we trade Zub somehow, Parayko will not be also bad idea, ( blues like us need changes)

 

[Karterthadon]

They are fair questions. I just think it comes to retool vs rebuild.

I have no idea what they’re thinking but personally I don’t envision the Sens doing a full rebuild or purposely trying to be bad. I don’t think the fanbase has an appetite for a losing team. I see them trying to quickly fix the team and asking for patience in the form of a year or two while they make the changes they want to make.

Maybe we’ll go on a ten game winning streak and none of this will happen. Doubtful but lots of ways this can go still.

They're bad now, and they're trying to compete lol what an absolute mess

There are no quick fixes here sadly, a bad core is a bad core, you can't fix it on the margins by adding Jake Guentzel. We need better players so the 3 best players on this current team become the 4th, 5th and 6th best players on the team.

Call it a rebuild or a retool, it's going to take a long time to fix it regardless.

 

[PlayOn]

They're bad now, and they're trying to compete lol what an absolute mess

There are no quick fixes here sadly, a bad core is a bad core, you can't fix it on the margins by adding Jake Guentzel. We need better players so the 3 best players on this current team become the 4th, 5th and 6th best players on the team.

Call it a rebuild or a retool, it's going to take a long time to fix it regardless.

Are we trying to form an Olympic team here? Stützle and Sanderson don’t have to be the 4th and 5th best players on any team.

I just don’t agree with this notion that a “bad core is a bad core”. The core isn’t a monolith. It’s comprised of a bunch of pieces that aren’t working together, for whatever reason. I think that’s a long discussion. Regardless, it’s Staios’ job to identify those reasons and make the changes necessary. It doesn’t mean the entire core is deadweight.

 

[Alex1234]

My point is that outside of Sanderson and Kleven, these guys are going to be gone in a few years and that’s why the defense needs time to be built. I didn’t say anything about giving these guys more time to prove themselves, just that when you retool it’s going to take time even without trading everyone on the team.

All good
You're rooting for a retool
Im not
I don't think retool can't fix things
Not like they are 17th in the league
They are 27th
Not better than last season
They brought some pieces in the past with zero success
You can bring all the excuses
We've heard all of the them the last 7 years
I think a make over is needed but you're welcome to disagree

 

[OUT HOUSE]

Flames are +125, get your free money, lads

 

[Boud]

I feel like we’re at the breaking point. Before the season I was thinking this is the year where they need to win and make the playoffs. Not fight for it, but make it. I don’t see them making it. I was hopeful but the realist inside me kept telling me there’s as much of a chance they don’t make it even if everything went right and we couldn’t be further from that.

Giroux is in his last year. Who knows what Perron will look like next year. Jensen is getting older. Some of the pieces we have won’t be getting any better. Some of them we hope will but have shown little to no progression.

There’s big issues on this roster.

People will hate me for saying it but Brady Tkachuk needs to be way better. He’s not even close to good enough. He scores, he fights … Sure. We need him to play defence. We need him to back check as hard as he forechecks. We need him making plays. We need him breaking up plays defensively. He’s not been that guy ever in his career and he hasn’t changed his game. Putting up points and fighting is not enough. We need guys that can play a mature game. Mark Stone, Marian Hossa, Daniel Alfredsson. These guys are true leaders on the ice. I guarantee you any of those guys wins you way more games than Brady. It’s the same thing for Batherson. He could be way better defensively. It’s just not in their game right now. As long as they don’t commit to it we won’t be a good team. These guys are our best forwards and they don’t care to play defence. They just don’t and it’s frustrating to watch. People are blinded by the fights and the net front battles and forget that the games is played in the neutral zone and in the Dzone too.

Stutzle has been great. Norris has been better than I expected overall - and he plays defence. Jensen has arguably been our 2nd best player this year.

After that? Nothing. Amadio looks like a tweener, Greig is out of place, Perron looks cooked, Giroux has been horrendous. Ullmark… what is there to even say about him?

This team will not make the playoffs. It’s already slipping away and it will be difficult to climb out of it already. This team has a hard time winning games against injury riddled teams, bottom teams. We are nowhere close to being a playoff team.

I like what Staois did in the offseason. I think he addressed the correct flaws on the roster and gave the core a chance to try together one last time but there will be massive changes before next season. There has to be.

 

[Beech]

it has been 17 years, since I sat to watch a game and felt it to be a sure win.

17 years!!!!!

regardless of who they play, I never feel assured of a win. But on the flip side, when they play a mid to top end team, I feel reasonably sure they will lose.

After a while, a distorted Stockholm syndrome kicks in. You now draw greater comfort in a loss. When a game ends and they have lost, you feel safe. Like all is normal.

Unreal, I was on the edge of my seat yesterday, afraid they would tie it real late. I felt strangely relieved.

 

[Boud]

Another thing I feel is truly showing by the way this team is playing… A lot of guys on this roster need a change of scenery. Sometimes players need to have a fresh slate. Losing for so many years and having the same things to repeat every year is not good on a player. They might want to win but this pressure they are putting on themselves won’t go away until they win or move on and winning is just not in the cards.

Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson and even Giroux have been on losing teams for a long time. They know every loss they will have to answer those same questions.

I’m starting to think that some of these guys will want out of Ottawa by the end of the year … if not already.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I genuinely believe 90% of the players on the bench know the game is over and there is no way of coming back the second another team scores first. They know they’re not capable of winning.

 

[Flamingo]

 

[SensFanInMTL]

What a takeaway from my post lol.

The Sens failed to draft, develop and acquire defencemen for years. Chabot, JBD and Thomson were the starting point and that hasn’t worked obviously.

Now you have a 34 year old stop gap in Jensen, Travis Hamonic and Zub who is permanently injured.

What does the D need if not more time and work?