Is Mcdavid the greatest Athlete in the big 4 Sports since Lebron James?

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

You could make an argument, but it's flimsy. As noted in the thread, Trout is the strongest case against in the MLB. I think Aaron Donald also has a strong case for being the greatest athlete to enter the NFL in that time frame. Ovechkin has 3 Harts, 9 Richards, 800 goals, a Conn Smythe, and a Cup -- McDavid needs more to pass that greatness (and that's not even touching on Crosby, for whom a good argument has been made).

If you consider players that have played in the big 4, the case becomes flimsier. Tom Brady enters the chat. Peyton Manning is in there. Lemieux was still playing. Nick Lidstrom had 4 Norris trophies left to win. Barry Bonds was still hitting 40+ HRs a year.

Expand beyond the big 4 leagues, and it's an emphatic 'no'. Messi is unquestionably "greater", IMO, and he debuted for Barca after LeBron. Tiger Woods hit his peak in 2005, and I think he's a top-2 professional athlete ever. Michael Phelps is the most dominant Olympian of all time, and didn't win his first gold medal until 2004.

Also, what do you mean by "greatest"? Is it purely talent level? Is it talent level combined with accomplishment? Is it purely accomplishment?

 

[MessierII]

Also, if we're talking greatest of all time, how would you throw someone like Tyson Fury relative to McDavid when it comes to heavyweight boxing? Fury is 33-0-1 in his heavyweight career. Granted it seems like boxing has become weaker relative to the other major sports, but what Fury is doing is super impressive.

That’s a nice record but who’s he really beat? Any other current greats? Thing with combat sports is it’s more about who you’ve beat than how many.

 

[DFC]

There are guys who never fully maximized their potential who I'd put over him. Cam Newton, for instance. Not anywhere close to the kind of career McDavid is having, but the raw athleticism was incredible. At least for a minute or two.

That’s a nice record but who’s he really beat? Any other current greats? Thing with combat sports is it’s more about who you’ve beat than how many.

I don't think that critique can be applied to Fury so much as it can other boxers. And it seems to be changing in general.

 

[lawrence]

I think he is.

One can only imagine if the oilers had a stronger roster. 150 for sure.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Idk man nobody plays hockey, the pool of athletes is so small to pick from. Greatest hockey player in the world sure but greatest athlete? that's a stretch.


We see what genetic freaks of nature can do in the league (Ovi/Malkin for example)

Now imagine putting any of these top NBA/NFL player with size on skates as a young child lol

 

[Peltz]

the two sports I follow (hockey and basketball) are both soft as hell now can never have the greatest player from today

Hockey isn’t soft. Wtf.

It’s just faster.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Hockey isn’t soft. Wtf.

It’s just faster.

Especially when compared to how basketball is played today hockey is the furthest thing from soft lol

 

[Cotton]

Hockey isn’t soft. Wtf.

It’s just faster.

It's also super soft, compared to what it was.

 

[Voight]

Calling Crosby a tier below is ridiculous. McDavid's career average works out to be 120 points per 82 games, Crosby at the same games played was 115.

He already has 2x as many Art Ross', same amount of Harts/Pearsons/1st AST's.

The only award Crosby beats him in is Richards.

(didn't include the Smythe because thats an exclusive trophy; i.e. your team has to make the finals so its not available to every player in the league to win)

 

[MAB1]

Honestly was just going through major sports

I think if you add in Football and Cricket (huge sports in Africa/Europe/SA and Asia)

McDavid is one of the 4.5 guys to challenge for GOAT in the sport

LeBron
McDavid
Messi
Cr7 (he did challenge but now isn't there got old and couldn't keep it up. Still my favourite tho)
Virat Kohli

He's in a rare group of athletes ever

Trout will go down as the best player in baseball history if he just stays healthy and keep up his performance. McDavid as great as he is, isn't moving down Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr...Trout is going to knock down the Mount Rushmore of MLB if he keeps this up.

Sure he doesn't have playoff success but I mean he's being compared to McDavid so that criteria means nothing.

 

[TooManyHumans]

No.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Lebron is not even top 10 all time.

I'm a LeBron hater and I can't even say that man.

McDavid is interesting I think he has a chance to challenge GOAT status for sure. I just am unsure if he achieves it.

Let's wait a few more years before we start discussing this. He doesn't have the hardware yet and if you ever want to be considered a GOAT of a sport. You have to win. No ifs and buts. If you don't win you don't deserve to even sniff it.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Trout will go down as the best player in baseball history if he just stays healthy and keep up his performance. McDavid as great as he is, isn't moving down Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr...Trout is going to knock down the Mount Rushmore of MLB if he keeps this up.

Sure he doesn't have playoff success but I mean he's being compared to McDavid so that criteria means nothing.

Trout is barely halfway to Babe Ruth's WAR. It ain't happening.

 

[MAB1]

Trout is barely halfway to Babe Ruth's WAR. It ain't happening.

I said if he stays healthy and keeps producing. Anything you can say about Trout can be used toward McDavid with respect to Gretzky.

 

[Nfumass]

That’s a nice record but who’s he really beat? Any other current greats? Thing with combat sports is it’s more about who you’ve beat than how many.

I’ve been a boxing fan for a very long time, Fury is a great HW boxer maybe top 10-15 HW, but he is no where near the goat HW, he beat an over the hill klitschko, wilder who has incredible power up there with Tyson and Foreman but is a trash boxer, and not much else. It’s a division that hasn’t produced the talent it used to.

Usyk has come up to HW and looked very good but I think is gonna be to small to beat Fury, will be an interesting fight though as they can both box

 

[danpantz]

Would Tom Brady count? Hold’s just about every record, more championships then most franchises. Tons of individual awards.

But he only plays on one side of the ball.

 

[tfwnogf]

I don't watch other sports but yes he is because hockey is the best

 

[Voight]

No NFL mentions?

Mahomes (Most talented QB ever) has to be near the top.

Yea, with his 1 MVP

Username checks out.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

It's also super soft, compared to what it was.

Oldmanyellsatcloud.gif

That’s a reference to that old Simpson’s show, for the record. Gif means it’s a pic.

Do you.. watch the games or take note of how fast these guys move, and how hard the hits subsequently are? Do you just pine for enforcers and ignoring brain damage? I don’t get how you can watch the modern product and call it soft when a quarter of the players miss significant time due to legitimate injuries. Are concussions just not a thing, to your mind?

Anyways, shame Lin Dan retired in 2020, or we’d have a real conversation going. And no, I didn’t just Google “best badminton player”, that’d just be silly. Srsly though, sport is popular af in Asia, wonder how the actual numbers would compare to tennis.

 

[Voight]

I'm a LeBron hater and I can't even say that man.

McDavid is interesting I think he has a chance to challenge GOAT status for sure. I just am unsure if he achieves it.

Let's wait a few more years before we start discussing this. He doesn't have the hardware yet and if you ever want to be considered a GOAT of a sport. You have to win. No ifs and buts. If you don't win you don't deserve to even sniff it.

One reason I don't think he'll ever get close to 99 is he hasn't separated himself from his peers enough. 4 scoring titles is fantastic at his age but lets not pretend like he's winning them by massive margins.

 

[MessierII]

I don't think that critique can be applied to Fury so much as it can other boxers. And it seems to be changing in general.

Going to disagree with you big time there

One reason I don't think he'll ever get close to 99 is he hasn't separated himself from his peers enough. 4 scoring titles is fantastic at his age but lets not pretend like he's winning them by massive margins.

The only way he puts himself in gretzky’s conversation is if he ages really well and plays at a high level well into his 40’s.

 

[King In The North]

and declining more day by day.

if McD can continue this into his 30s he's definitely gonna surpass Crosby, the only argument will be cups.

Crosby's on pace for another 100 point campaign at 35 lmao

 

[Scomerica]

Hard to compare. Probably Messi, but he has also always played in stacked teams. Even Argentina has great players.

McDavid will have an Asterix beside him till he wins a cup.

NFL is hard to say, it's such a parity league but you can't really argue with Tom Brady even if he is past it now. Mahomes is great as well but you can only be as good as the team around you in the NFL.

MLB- Ohtani right now given being an elite pitcher and hitter is almost unheard of. Shame he is in a badly run team.

 

[MAB1]

Basketball "global talent pool" when it's mostly Americans above 2 meters of height, smallest pool of any sport per default due to the height "requirement, people of average height are discouraged from playing from the start.

It's not a very popular sport outside a few select countries either.

Hard to compare a borderline fringe sport to something like football and Messi got a real case for being GOAT in it(McDavid won't get close to Gretzky) then again the sport is deadly boring so there's that. Can't wait for the World Cup to be over and hopefully Argentina loses so I don't have to hear more about it. Downside is if France win again I will never hear the end of how Mbappe is now the new GOAT till another great player comes along of course. Guess best thing is if Morocco somehow wins but it won't be the best for the cars of France.

Djokovic is very likely both the best and greatest tennis player of all time, don't know if that puts him in the conversation. Pogacar in cycling is another name to consider considering what he has done at his age.

Of course I realize the thread is about the "big 4 sports" but I would strongly contest that they are the "big 4" sports to begin with, if that's set in stone I have no idea since I would never watch any American football, basketball or baseball-

I do know McDavids case for being the GOAT is nonexistant at this point and I consider him pretty much a shoein for 5th of all time unless something unexpected(in either direction) happens so it's not like I am any hater.

You say this like hockey doesn't have a huge financial barrier. Or that kids in developed countries have way more options than soccer which is why they aren't tilted to that sport unless there's a pre-existing national prestige for the sport.

You wanna know why soccer is so popular globally? Because it's cheap af to play and accessible to almost everyone on the planet. Almost like water. You think kids in Africa or Asia can afford to play hockey, baseball or football? LOL They never get exposure to those sports because they can't afford them, so they get steered to soccer. If these kids in those regions had a chance to play all sports and then pick which one they liked most that's one thing, that's not what's happening though.

Just because something is the most common doesn't make it the best, it just means its the cheapest thing around. A poor person is going to think water is the best drink ever because he's too poor to afford anything better, that doesn't mean there's nothing that tastes better.

Hockey doesn't get the best athletes, they get the best out of all kids from wealthy parents. A group not known for their physical attributes.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

One reason I don't think he'll ever get close to 99 is he hasn't separated himself from his peers enough. 4 scoring titles is fantastic at his age but lets not pretend like he's winning them by massive margins.

Yeah, just like let's not pretend the league didn't expand immensely between 1967 and 1990, creating the highest scoring era and also the bigger gap in talent, creating more seperation.

The separation argument is completely devoid of any understanding of what dilution and saturation of talent will do.