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Confirmed with Link: Is Glen Sather Stepping Down? [UPDATE: Yes]

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Ardi44 said:
Drury,Sakic,Rob Blake, Robitaille,Yzerman,Shanahan. They all got higher level jobs without serving organizations in any other capacity. Every time Messier's name is brought up, it seems like he gets cast aside for lack of experience. The other names are never mentioned for lack for experience. I also dont know if he is going to be a logical replacement. But the reasoning against him doesnt seem to be warranted .
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Messier started playing in the WHA at 16 years old. Sorry man, I want someone with more than a 10th grade education running the team. I don't care how much you "know the game" Mess has sat on his ass handing out his bogus leadership award for the last how many years. If he wanted a post player career he should have been putting the work in all along.
 
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Ardi44 said:
Drury,Sakic,Rob Blake, Robitaille,Yzerman,Shanahan. They all got higher level jobs without serving organizations in any other capacity. Every time Messier's name is brought up, it seems like he gets cast aside for lack of experience. The other names are never mentioned for lack for experience. I also dont know if he is going to be a logical replacement. But the reasoning against him doesnt seem to be warranted .
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In fact the logical conclusion is, Messier is a great leader, he should probably be put in a leadership role! He may not have made a good coach/GM but the idea that he should be summarily rejected as a team president( A a largely leadership based/ none day to day decision type role) is just difficult for me to accept.

The argument that he has no experience and therefore can't have the job is always backwards. No one ever has experience in the exact job they get before getting the job. People should be given roles that they seem suited for. Mess was a great leader, a great Ranger, a person people look up to and seemingly a perfect face for an organization. I see many more reasons why he should get the job than reasons why others like Drury, Yzerman or JD should be( although JD would be next in line if possible.)
 
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JHS said:
In fact the logical conclusion is, Messier is a great leader, he should probably be put in a leadership role! He may not have made a good coach/GM but the idea that he should be summarily rejected as a team president( A a largely leadership based/ none day to day decision type role) is just difficult for me to accept.

The argument that he has no experience and therefore can't have the job is always backwards. No one ever has experience in the exact job they get before getting the job. People should be given roles that they seem suited for. Mess was a great leader, a great Ranger, a person people look up to and seemingly a perfect face for an organization. I see many more reasons why he should get the job then reasons why others like Drury, Yzerman or JD should be( although JD would be next in line if possible.)
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The president of a hockey franchise is absolutely not just a leadership role
 
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SnowblindNYR said:
Not to insult anyone but if I was over 15 years old and wanted to bring Messier in because he helped us to win a cup I'd be embarrassed and wouldn't double down by questioning others who want to make decisions based on logic and not feelings.
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If this is a shot at me you really are way off base. Mess is a leader who proved more than his worth during his time here. I'd be more embarrassed to be promoting Chris Drury to a place of leadership because the guy was a giant nothing during his time as a Ranger and has only a few years in a front office which has done nothing but dismantle the franchise and currently has almost no pressure on it at all to create results since lots of people seem content with just sitting around waiting for this rebuild to somehow all come together.

How is Drury or any others any more a logical choice than Mess to take this job? Drury has essentially been a "yes" man for the past few seasons serving as assistant GM. That does not somehow make him more suited for a role like this one. Have you completely forgotten his time as a player on this team? His tenure in the NHL as a player is nothing compared to Messier's and since that's really all I have to go on because I'm not in these meetings to see if Drury is actually involved in anything, I'll stake my argument on suitability to be a president of an organization on qualities of the person as a player.
 
JHS said:
If this is a shot at me you really are way off base. Mess is a leader who proved more than his worth during his time here. I'd be more embarrassed to be promoting Chris Drury to a place of leadership because the guy was a giant nothing during his time as a Ranger and has only a few years in a front office which has done nothing but dismantle the franchise and currently has almost no pressure on it at all to create results since lots of people seem content with just sitting around waiting for this rebuild to somehow all come together.

How is Drury or any others any more a logical choice than Mess to take this job? Drury has essentially been a "yes" man for the past few seasons serving as assistant GM. That does not somehow make him more suited for a role like this one. Have you completely forgotten his time as a player on this team? His tenure in the NHL as a player is nothing compared to Messier's and since that's really all I have to go on because I'm not in these meetings to see if Drury is actually involved in anything, I'll stake my argument on suitability to be a president of an organization on qualities of the person as a player.
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You want this team to become another Edmonton
 
Chris Drury has significant FO experience compared to Messier. Hes already on board with what they're doing here. No that doesn't make him the ideal candidate, but it makes him a better one than Messier.

The last time Messier was here, McIlrath happened. He will completely f*** this rebuild up himself.
 
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JHS said:
If this is a shot at me you really are way off base. Mess is a leader who proved more than his worth during his time here. I'd be more embarrassed to be promoting Chris Drury to a place of leadership because the guy was a giant nothing during his time as a Ranger and has only a few years in a front office which has done nothing but dismantle the franchise and currently has almost no pressure on it at all to create results since lots of people seem content with just sitting around waiting for this rebuild to somehow all come together.

How is Drury or any others any more a logical choice than Mess to take this job? Drury has essentially been a "yes" man for the past few seasons serving as assistant GM. That does not somehow make him more suited for a role like this one. Have you completely forgotten his time as a player on this team? His tenure in the NHL as a player is nothing compared to Messier's and since that's really all I have to go on because I'm not in these meetings to see if Drury is actually involved in anything, I'll stake my argument on suitability to be a president of an organization on qualities of the person as a player.
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First of all, Drury is NOT getting promoted to President of hockey operations. That's just foolish. Drury is faaaaaar from a "yes" man. He has been a rising star among executives.

Second of all, Messier has had not one iota of any sort of experience outside of being a player. Putting him into such a big managerial organizational position just because he was a great Rangers and a great Captain, is even more foolish. Being a great player does not equate to being a great coach or a great executive.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
Who cares if the President is overly big on analytics or not? It is the GM who is making the trades.


Lol. Now I am curious...
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Because the President is the guy who build the organisation, he’s the one who will build our analytics department (hopefully), the President decides the philosophy of the organisation
 
Pridham and McCrimmon would be interesting gets.

If you ranked all the ones in that article, it would be Yzerman/Pridham/McCrimmon/JD in the Top 4 and then everyone else is under the "no" tier.
 
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Getting and counting "good looks" is a form of analytics.

Subjectivity is not evil, it just has to be good subjectivity.

In order to counteract bad subjectivity, analytics are a good check.

In order to counteract poor conclusions based on analytics, good subjectivity is a good check.

There should be symbiotic relationship there, not a one side or another approach.
 
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JHS said:
If this is a shot at me you really are way off base. Mess is a leader who proved more than his worth during his time here. I'd be more embarrassed to be promoting Chris Drury to a place of leadership because the guy was a giant nothing during his time as a Ranger and has only a few years in a front office which has done nothing but dismantle the franchise and currently has almost no pressure on it at all to create results since lots of people seem content with just sitting around waiting for this rebuild to somehow all come together.

How is Drury or any others any more a logical choice than Mess to take this job? Drury has essentially been a "yes" man for the past few seasons serving as assistant GM. That does not somehow make him more suited for a role like this one. Have you completely forgotten his time as a player on this team? His tenure in the NHL as a player is nothing compared to Messier's and since that's really all I have to go on because I'm not in these meetings to see if Drury is actually involved in anything, I'll stake my argument on suitability to be a president of an organization on qualities of the person as a player.
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What the hell does their time as players or leadership skills as players have to do with being president, which is a front office job? This makes no sense at all. Being a good leader is only one aspect of this job. And he was a good lockerroom leader, doesn't make him a good business leader. Drury at least has front office experience.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
What the hell does their time as players or leadership skills as players have to do with being president, which is a front office job? This makes no sense at all. Being a good leader is only one aspect of this job. And he was a good lockerroom leader, doesn't make him a good business leader. Drury at least has front office experience.
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I'm fairly certain being a good leader would be a quality I'd be interested in if I was looking to fill a role as a president. If the person has any business knowledge I'd consider almost a benefit. Do you really think Glenn Sather was sitting there balancing accounts and making sure the Rangers stick budget was correctly accounted for??? I'd imagine the role is more of a "sit in meetings that are about big picture stuff." I'm sure they have an accounting department to focus on the business aspect of the team. I'd rather have someone in that role where everyone in the meeting respects the guy as a hockey man than someone who knows how to run a balanced budget.
 
JHS said:
In fact the logical conclusion is, Messier is a great leader, he should probably be put in a leadership role! He may not have made a good coach/GM but the idea that he should be summarily rejected as a team president( A a largely leadership based/ none day to day decision type role) is just difficult for me to accept.

The argument that he has no experience and therefore can't have the job is always backwards. No one ever has experience in the exact job they get before getting the job. People should be given roles that they seem suited for. Mess was a great leader, a great Ranger, a person people look up to and seemingly a perfect face for an organization. I see many more reasons why he should get the job than reasons why others like Drury, Yzerman or JD should be( although JD would be next in line if possible.)
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This isn't a symbolic leadership role. He'd essentially be the GM's boss if I understand correctly. Why would they make someone they determined not to be capable of being GM now an even higher role?

The argument that experience is needed for difficult jobs is never backward imo. I've worked plenty of places where people without experience were given high roles and it's always, always a disaster. And of course. Because they don't know what they're doing. Some learn on the job eventually after everyone puts up with their ignorant mistakes for a while, but a lot also never learn.

Messier is by far the least qualified out of he, Drury, Yzerman and JD. How is this even a question? He has zero experience. He's done zero work to learn anything about these types of roles. Yzerman built an absolute power house as a GM, being promoted to President would be logical. JD has had this role before. Drury at least has been putting in work and climbing this sort of ladder, though I'd argue he's not nearly qualified for this role yet either.
 
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Off Sides said:
There should be symbiotic relationship there, not a one side or another approach.
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And yet somehow, that is exactly what happens 'round here. I always get the feeling that the metrics crowd is mostly 100% on analytics with tunnel vision. And if you do not agree, you are either an idiot or a caveman. Or both.
 
Off Sides said:
Getting and counting "good looks" is a form of analytics.

Subjectivity is not evil, it just has to be good subjectivity.

In order to counteract bad subjectivity, analytics are a good check.

In order to counteract poor conclusions based on analytics, good subjectivity is a good check.

There should be symbiotic relationship there, not a one side or another approach.
Click to expand...

I firmly believe that relationship, not unlike skill and toughness, is essential.

I don't believe these areas should come down to one or the other. It should be a combination of both.
 
JHS said:
I'm fairly certain being a good leader would be a quality I'd be interested in if I was looking to fill a role as a president. If the person has any business knowledge I'd consider almost a benefit. Do you really think Glenn Sather was sitting there balancing accounts and making sure the Rangers stick budget was correctly accounted for??? I'd imagine the role is more of a "sit in meetings that are about big picture stuff." I'm sure they have an accounting department to focus on the business aspect of the team. I'd rather have someone in that role where everyone in the meeting respects the guy as a hockey man than someone who knows how to run a balanced budget.
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Leader as a player doesn't equal leader as a front office guy. Also, big picture as a front office guy doesn't equate to being a player. Just admit that this is you thinking with your heart and not your head.
 
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