Not sure how many times this needs to be stated. Bedard's CHL peers are Wayne, Mario, and Crosby. He was more dominant than McDavid. Are you putting Hughes and Laf on the same tier?
Is Bedard more McDavid or Drai/Matthews/Mackinnon level talent?
- Thread starter User9992
- Start date
Not sure how many times this needs to be stated. Bedard's CHL peers are Wayne, Mario, and Crosby. He was more dominant than McDavid. Are you putting Hughes and Laf on the same tier?
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Oleksiak
Registered User
Sorry
Registered User
- May 18, 2005
- 8,411
- 974
Sad that some people don't remember that Crosby was lightning on skates as a prospect. There were comparisons to Bure in terms of skating before he entered the league. Bedard just doesn't have the explosiveness of Crosby or McDavid.
If he's Crosby with better goal scoring ability than surely he'll do more than flirt with 40 goals? Crosby had 51 in a lower scoring era.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
It's still subjective. However, I'll entertain your argument.
Explain to me which stats are the definitive determinations of statistical dominance and how he definitively was more statistically dominant in those stats than other players. Please also explain to me how you are going to account for different leagues they play in and year to year variations.
Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
- 15,313
- 11,810
You chose three of the best players in the league and also Matthews. I am not sure he gets to any of their level before seeing him at the NHL level. McDavid and Mackinnon are just ridiculous skaters and Leon is strong on the puck. In the CHL he was just as good as any prospect of the last 20 years, but he also isn't as thick as Crosby to not think his size is going to put him in more of the Patrick Kane tier. We'll see if a 5'9 guy can survive as a top 5 player in the league at center.
McDavid ended up even better than pre-draft hype so it is difficult to say. McDavid as a prospect was not as good as Crosby as a prospect. It is still debatable who was better when you consider adjusted numbers, but the fact that there is a debate is a testament to how well McDavid has turned out. I still think when things settle Crosby is going to end up in the top 5 all time and McDavid is not as Crosby is still a 90 point guy at 36 years old. McDavid is having the best offensive peak outside of Lemieux, Jagr and Gretzky since Lafleur though.
Bedard stylistically doesn't play like McDavid and doesn't have anywhere near the speed. He is going into one of the weakest projectable divisions though and most of the teams in it are going to be rebuilding in the next few years so he could get some Ovechkin-level easy competition like the old Southeast division.
McDavid ended up even better than pre-draft hype so it is difficult to say. McDavid as a prospect was not as good as Crosby as a prospect. It is still debatable who was better when you consider adjusted numbers, but the fact that there is a debate is a testament to how well McDavid has turned out. I still think when things settle Crosby is going to end up in the top 5 all time and McDavid is not as Crosby is still a 90 point guy at 36 years old. McDavid is having the best offensive peak outside of Lemieux, Jagr and Gretzky since Lafleur though.
Bedard stylistically doesn't play like McDavid and doesn't have anywhere near the speed. He is going into one of the weakest projectable divisions though and most of the teams in it are going to be rebuilding in the next few years so he could get some Ovechkin-level easy competition like the old Southeast division.
I think I can agree with that (probably add Lindros)....but doesn't mean he'll be "X" in the NHL.....not that I dispute what others think he'll be, I simply do not know.....it's much easier to tell when someone really won't compete at the NHL than it is to suggest someone will likely reach "X" heights....
FlameChampion
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2011
- 14,735
- 17,337
Well seems like hes well known for his shot. Seems like its on Matthews level or better.
He doesn’t have McDavids speed or Matthews size though.
It will be interesting to see how his pro career plays out. I have no doubt he can be a great PP player. How effective will he be at creating time and space on 5 on 5?
I do think his will and work ethic will be on McDavid’s level.
Excited to see him play.
He doesn’t have McDavids speed or Matthews size though.
It will be interesting to see how his pro career plays out. I have no doubt he can be a great PP player. How effective will he be at creating time and space on 5 on 5?
I do think his will and work ethic will be on McDavid’s level.
Excited to see him play.
- Apr 27, 2005
- 35,340
- 33,978
How are you including Wayne and Mario, but excluding Pat Lafontaine?? He led the Q in goals AND assists in his draft year.
70gp 104g 234p
He had 20 more goals than Lemieux and 46 more points than 2nd in scoring (50 more points than Lemieux). And he was only 8 months older than Mario.
I think Lafontaine and Bedard actually have a lot in common.
Last edited:
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 56,765
- 49,189
Yeah it's kind of funny to see people constantly refer to Crosby's lower body strength as though that was the only thing he had going for him. In his younger days, Crosby was damn fast and could beat defenders regularly out wide.
In fact, the biggest difference I see between current day 35 year old Crosby and prime Crosby, and why this version is "only" a 90+ point guy is Crosby no longer has that explosive speed and can't just beat defenders wide whenever he wants. When he had that speed he was a lock to score 100+ points in a full season.
- Apr 27, 2005
- 35,340
- 33,978
I don't know if he ever fully recovered from that high ankle sprain, honestly. His 2nd year in the league he was posterizing everyone.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
Meant over his career average.
Crosby has been averaging 38 goals and 102 pts on a 82 game pace over his career so far.
Ya Crosby hit 51 goals but only hit 40+ once after that and stayed in the mid to late 30s range.
I think Bedard can average 40ish (40 to 43) goals and 105ish pts or so over his career.
He may hit 50 a couple times but low range would be mid 30s with multiple 40 or more seasons.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 56,765
- 49,189
Yeah, he went from blazing fast to simply fast after that. But either way, this idea that the *only* thing that made Crosby a generational player was his freakish lower body strength and no mention of his elite skating is strange.
Pretty awesome Vancouver didn't get a sniff because they opted to win a bunch of meaningless games then, lulz.
I think McDavid's game had more room to grow as weird as that sounds.
His shot release wasn't elite when he came in to the NHL, that's only really developed for him the last 1-2 years, now he has it all, now he's a 60+ goal scorer.
Bedard really can't learn the stuff McDavid is on another tier at though ... that kind of explosive speed or that difference in size is hard to improve on.
I kinda liken McDavid to Michael Jordan in that he has an athletic ability (the explosive skating and ability to think while going insanely fast) like young Jordan had the incredible jumping ability and the ability to do things in the air that like Magic and Bird couldn't do. It's an athletic aspect that gives them an edge on their peers.
We'll see where Bedard falls on that chart.
His shot release wasn't elite when he came in to the NHL, that's only really developed for him the last 1-2 years, now he has it all, now he's a 60+ goal scorer.
Bedard really can't learn the stuff McDavid is on another tier at though ... that kind of explosive speed or that difference in size is hard to improve on.
I kinda liken McDavid to Michael Jordan in that he has an athletic ability (the explosive skating and ability to think while going insanely fast) like young Jordan had the incredible jumping ability and the ability to do things in the air that like Magic and Bird couldn't do. It's an athletic aspect that gives them an edge on their peers.
We'll see where Bedard falls on that chart.
CallMeShaft
Registered User
- Apr 14, 2014
- 16,320
- 22,771
He doesn't need to be as good as McDavid or Crosby.
He just needs to be better than everyone else.
He just needs to be better than everyone else.
Kane played for London under Dale Hunter. Hunters system is all about offense. It makes Bruce Boudreau look like a defensive savant. Hunters teams score a lot, they also don't play D.
That London team had the number 1st, 3rd and 5th leading scorers in the OHL and they all played on the same line. Bedard had nowhere close to the offense system or the talent of that London team. Heck a 2nd line player on London scored more points then the 2nd highest scorer on Regina. London also have 6 forwards score over a ppg.
Also Tavares got worse in his draft year, the complete opposite of what Bedard did
Yeah I noticed many posters here don’t seem to remember how fast Crosby was, but I’ll also say Bedard’s skating gets underrated here a lot.
thethirdhockeyman91
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2018
- 4,569
- 4,641
On par with Mcdavid but a tier below the mighty Lafreniere. Lafreniere will lead the league in scoring next season.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
-
Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?- Latest: WhiskeyYerTheDevils
Upcoming events
-
Grey Cup 111TH GREY CUP - Toronto Argonauts vs Winnipeg Blue Bombers - Vancouver - TSN, CBS Sports NetworkWagers: 16Staked: $108,330.00Event closes- Updated:
-
