Salary Cap: Irrespective of playoff result, would you trade Nylander in the offseason?

[francis246]

I agree that crying doesn't mean you're immature. I had this argument years ago when Kobe was crying after losing in the finals, doesn't reflect badly on him at all, if anything it shows how much he cares. Thing is though, crying when the game is over is one thing, crying when the game is very much not over is another. Marner crying in the box maybe isn't a sign of immaturity but I think it's fair to say that it is a sign of weakness.

Anyhow, that's all in the past. People change, players evolve and I've been as hard on Marner as anyone but the past is the past, Marner has been playing exceptionally well lately and has a different look to him. I'm giving him a clean slate when the playoffs start and if that were to happen again, maybe he'll cry again or maybe he'll stay focused and get ready to play his heart out when he's out of the box again. Eyes full of tears or eyes blazing like a panther, we'll see.

I agree, but I think people also have to realize Marner was what? 23 years old at that time, you’re still a kid at that age and we have to remember these guys have dedicated their lives to this sport and I don’t think any of us can imagine the weight of playing in your hometown and realizing that you as a collective just threw away the easiest road to the finals we have maybe seen.

Knowing that the whole town is going to shit on you. It’s a different pressure for Marner he lives here. He doesn’t get to go hide in Arizona. So while I agree that it may show weakness to some. I’m looking at it from the angle of, we could never fully understand the feeling of having the weight of the whole city on your shoulders and what emotions can come from that when you feel like you’ve failed this town.

 

[francis246]

if we traded JT for a pick there'd be a lineup of players who'd gladly sign here

JT means nothing to the Leaf organization , it;s not like we're trying to dump Sid out of Pittsburgh /

also players have competed for spots since they were little kids , they fully understand it's a results oriented business and none of them will give a damn if Capt Mumbles gets traded , they will be pissed however if Mitch gets moved because Dubie is too gutless to get JT to waive

I don’t think you guys are understanding it. Tavares is saying no. TAVARES HAS ALLLL the power. And even to move him we’d have to eat half of his salary to get him to fit on a contender. What contender has 6 million in cap space? It makes zero sense for the leafs or Tavares to trade him. It’s more of a headache to move him than it is to try and move him. We are stuck with him.

 

[hotpaws]

I don’t think you guys are understanding it. Tavares is saying no. TAVARES HAS ALLLL the power. And even to move him we’d have to eat half of his salary to get him to fit on a contender. What contender has 6 million in cap space? It makes zero sense for the leafs or Tavares to trade him. It’s more of a headache to move him than it is to try and move him. We are stuck with him.

JT may say no and there may not be a team on his list that wants him but that has nothing to do with your previous argument .

the onus on mgmt is to explore all avenues to build the best team possible and i personally have no desire to watch JT get slower and slower while the coach and some fans chuck his linemates under the bus to deflect away from his poor play

also we have Mathews guaranteed for only 3 more playoff runs so i don't want to waste any more of them watching Tavares do the death crawl up and down the ice

 

[ShaneFalco]

JT may say no and there may not be a team on his list that wants him but that has nothing to do with your previous argument .

the onus on mgmt is to explore all avenues to build the best team possible and i personally have no desire to watch JT get slower and slower while the coach and some fans chuck his linemates under the bus to deflect away from his poor play

also we have Mathews guaranteed for only 3 more playoff runs so i don't want to waste any more of them watching Tavares do the death crawl up and down the ice

Thats why if they go out early again they should bring in someone that has no attachment to any of the players

 

[Macallan18]

whoever gets the best player in a trade wins, right?
we won't get someone of his calibre back, just some grab bag of b prospects and mediocre draft picks.
very poor asset management.

 

[francis246]

JT may say no and there may not be a team on his list that wants him but that has nothing to do with your previous argument .

the onus on mgmt is to explore all avenues to build the best team possible and i personally have no desire to watch JT get slower and slower while the coach and some fans chuck his linemates under the bus to deflect away from his poor play

also we have Mathews guaranteed for only 3 more playoff runs so i don't want to waste any more of them watching Tavares do the death crawl up and down the ice

LMAO might as well turn off the TV then because he has a NMC. Which means no move, there is no “list”. It means no waivers, no trades, no roster movement with out his permission. Tavares is playing out his contract as a leaf you better believe that. If by any chance anyone gets moved, it’s unfortunately Nylander or Marner before their NTC’s kick in. Or maybe Muzzin

 

[francis246]

Thats why if they go out early again they should bring in someone that has no attachment to any of the players

What would new management do? They ask him to waive he says no, then what? Exact same position as management before them. Look anything is possible, Tavares may agree one day. But unless it’s to a contender why would he agree? I don’t even think demoting him to fourth line duties would get him to do that.

EDIT: And no GM would be stupid enough to buy out an 11 million cap hit!

 

[hotpaws]

LMAO might as well turn off the TV then because he has a NMC. Which means no move, there is no “list”. It means no waivers, no trades, no roster movement with out his permission. Tavares is playing out his contract as a leaf you better believe that. If by any chance anyone gets moved, it’s unfortunately Nylander or Marner before their NTC’s kick in. Or maybe Muzzin

i know he has a nmc but why do you keep ignoring players get traded all the time with nmc's ?

players usually waive there nmc's when a team no longer wants them but for some reason Johnny seems to be a special case where you can't even mention him waiving and instead trade everyone around him

 

[ShaneFalco]

What would new management do? They ask him to waive he says no, then what? Exact same position as management before them. Look anything is possible, Tavares may agree one day. But unless it’s to a contender why would he agree? I don’t even think demoting him to fourth line duties would get him to do that.

EDIT: And no GM would be stupid enough to buy out an 11 million cap hit!

I don't even think we would go down the JT road. Not sure Keefe is getting what he can out of him

 

[TGB]

I'd rather trade Tavarez. Nylander is still in his prime, and he's actually playing at a reasonable price. Tavarez was fun at first but he's declining more rapidly than expected and he's only going to get older.

players usually waive there nmc's when a team no longer wants them but for some reason Johnny seems to be a special case where you can't even mention him waiving and instead trade everyone around him

What in the world makes you think Tavarez would waive? The guy is a local boy with a chance to win a Stanley Cup for his hometown team. It's a dream come true for him. Nobody gives that up.

 

[ToneDog]

i know he has a nmc but why do you keep ignoring players get traded all the time with nmc's ?

players usually waive there nmc's when a team no longer wants them but for some reason Johnny seems to be a special case where you can't even mention him waiving and instead trade everyone around him

Doubt there is a GM out there that will take JT and his cap hit without dumping most of the cap hit back or without a huge sweetener. Has any player with a NMC and huge cap hit ever been traded ?? Luongo, ,Kovalchuk, Weber, Subban ??

 

[Niagara Bill]

Have to make some changes unless cap goes up 6 to 10m.
Will a cheap Micky replace WN? After playoffs decisions decisions.
AM and MM untouchable...everything else is fair.

 

[Apotheosis]

The team is going nowhere so I genuinely do not care if he is traded or not. It's a flawed squad at its core. I only tune in nowadays to see the first line destroy teams night in and night out.

 

[Apotheosis]

JT has looked good with everyone except 2022 Nylander.

Him and 2021 Nylander were absolute money together though. Better than the top line at times.

Tavares hasn't looked good in general. Don't kid yourself.

 

[hotpaws]

Doubt there is a GM out there that will take JT and his cap hit without dumping most of the cap hit back or without a huge sweetener. Has any player with a NMC and huge cap hit ever been traded ?? Luongo, ,Kovalchuk, Weber, Subban ??

there's many ways a deal can be structured and judging by JT's demeanor lately i'm sure he'd been open to giving a few teams he'd agree to be traded too

Johnny is used to be being catered to , that is never going to happen here so i'm sure he prefer going to a team that would kiss his ass again

 

[francis246]

Doubt there is a GM out there that will take JT and his cap hit without dumping most of the cap hit back or without a huge sweetener. Has any player with a NMC and huge cap hit ever been traded ?? Luongo, ,Kovalchuk, Weber, Subban ??

Luongo’s wanted to be in Florida. Weber never had an NMC, neither did Subban.

Tavares specifically signed here because it’s his childhood team. He ain’t leaving, not even going to debate it anymore. Beating a dead horse

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree, but I think people also have to realize Marner was what? 23 years old at that time, you’re still a kid at that age and we have to remember these guys have dedicated their lives to this sport and I don’t think any of us can imagine the weight of playing in your hometown and realizing that you as a collective just threw away the easiest road to the finals we have maybe seen.

Knowing that the whole town is going to shit on you. It’s a different pressure for Marner he lives here. He doesn’t get to go hide in Arizona. So while I agree that it may show weakness to some. I’m looking at it from the angle of, we could never fully understand the feeling of having the weight of the whole city on your shoulders and what emotions can come from that when you feel like you’ve failed this town.

You're right, he's young, we can't know the pressure, the emotions and whatever else so he gets a clean slate but I will also say it can't happen again. He's supposed to be one of the leaders of this team and crying in the penalty box is not the way to do it. He was 23 OK, he 24 now and hopefully he's not just older, but mentally tougher as well.

Remember that line in the movie A League of Their Own where Tom Hanks says there's no crying in baseball? Well there's no crying in hockey either and especially not in the playoffs, and especially not in game 7.

I don’t think you guys are understanding it. Tavares is saying no. TAVARES HAS ALLLL the power. And even to move him we’d have to eat half of his salary to get him to fit on a contender. What contender has 6 million in cap space? It makes zero sense for the leafs or Tavares to trade him. It’s more of a headache to move him than it is to try and move him. We are stuck with him.

This. I'm tired of people saying trade JT as if it was possible to do so. We're stuck with him, period.

 

[LeafGrief]

I don't think we move off Marner. The Matthews-Marner-Bunting line is too valuable in the regular season and if the Leafs are underperforming now it's because their ROI on the second line with the Medium 2 isn't what it should be.

Marner has been garbage in the playoffs three years running. The regular season does not matter if we're talking about this team being a contender, and MLSE only makes extra money if the Leafs go deep in the playoffs. If this core is getting retooled, it's about the playoff success rather than regular season success.

The second line is a problem for the Leafs today, but that problem is far more Tavares related than Nylander related. Chucking out Nylander because he's done less for us recently and is the closest Tavares proxy is not good decision making. Besides goaltending has been the biggest issue, it's far more important than Nylander dragging ass or the 2c who is overpaid but has 9p in the last 10gp.

Ultimately I'm fine if we do move on from Nylander (I'm fine with moving anyone not named Matthews or Rielly), but keep the perspective of why we're getting retooled in this scenario. If Nylander is great in the playoffs again and Marner isn't, that will factor very heavily into any decision making.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

i really don't know what to think of nylander . he's a great talent even elite at times(completely infuriating as well). you can see he could give so much more take another step or 2 but seems disinterested in improving beyond where he's at. he still plays the game as if he's still scared of being hit or just shy's away from any intense moment.

for everything he is, he is well worth his contract unless you get exactly what your looking for and have a reasonable replacement it might not be the best move . some internal replacement options but should still have lots of value considering, he should hit 70 points this season

as for jt

if we get eliminated in the first round captaincy gets stripped first and foremost

we would need a second line center to replace him ufa/trade return as we don't seem to have a top 9 center prospect waiting in the wings. unless you plan to shift nylander/robertson to center.

21 + mill owed over the last 3 years. instead of 33 could probably get around that by trading after the next bonus is paid.

a Ontario neighbor who would love to have a marquee name on discount and a cap hit to help with the floor or to create the illusion they are spending seems like a option if they decide to go that way.

for whatever reason these 2 players just have never clicked

i would like to see mathews and jt switched for a couple weeks. willy has always been able to get the puck mathews and mitch gave jt his best season as a leaf. i think the trade off would get both lines working.

 

[ER89]

Nah. As great as Mitch had been, he lays another and it's him. You don't pay 11m for dick all in the playoffs.

Also if we trade William we better make sure we have offense coming in because one line can get neutered in the playoffs very quickly as we have seen.

 

[nuck]

The expected return is, IMO: pick between 10-15, a 2nd round pick, a cheap borderline prospect forward.

As an example: Anaheim's 1st round pick, 2023 2nd round pick and Sam Steel.


I'm not trying to pick on Nylander, but I do think decisions on the core have to be made when they have at least 2 years left on their contracts to maximize trade value.

By the way, this doesn't apply to Matthews or Marner because they are both, without argument, top 5 in their position and almost impossible to replace without another long rebuild.

That return would be somewhat more than that I think. Add a another 2nd and a top end prospect maybe. The chance of a 10-15 pick becoming as good as Williie is probably less than 10%, but from the Leafs perspective they likely wouldn't deal him for that sort of return anyways. They would want the return to include a player back who can help them now and is cost controlled to improve their cap situation or it doesn't make much sense, Futures don't fit the window. If he brings it in the playoffs again that makes the decision harder but if the top heavy lineup fails again there has to be some changes looked at for sure.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

whoever gets the best player in a trade wins, right?
we won't get someone of his calibre back, just some grab bag of b prospects and mediocre draft picks.
very poor asset management.

That's a pre-salary cap saying.

This trade wouldn't be about the "best player". It would be about having too much cap space on 4 forwards and a need to structure the team in a more traditional/successful manner.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I was told by numerous “realistic” posters here that after last seasons embarrassing end that the regular season doesn’t mean squat, and all that matters to them is game 83 onward.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

i know he has a nmc but why do you keep ignoring players get traded all the time with nmc's ?

players usually waive there nmc's when a team no longer wants them but for some reason Johnny seems to be a special case where you can't even mention him waiving and instead trade everyone around him

There isn't a chance. Players often want NTC's to control their fate if trade options start floating around.

JT was different though. He very clearly chose to come back to his (and his wife's) home city to raise a family.

There is just absolutely no way this will happen.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Nylander isn't the problem for his C.H.%, as it matches his production, its having 3 X $11 mil players on the same team.

One of the $11 mil players should be dealt (Tavares with NMC as captain is difficult) or Marner.

You take that $11 mil and bring a in stable capable #1G for $5-6 mil and and top 6 forward for $5-$6 mil for that similar $11 mil cap consumption and you're off to a good start.

Nylander flexibility as a C or W allows you freedom to pick a winger or a centre and build accordingly.

Between mrazek & Campbell they have 5.5m in goaltending already. Just move them out and get the goalie you want without getting rid of a ppgish elite game breaker.