Salary Cap: Irrespective of playoff result, would you trade Nylander in the offseason?

[TakeTheBody]

If you're trading any of the core four it has to be JT. The problem is you can't trade him. He wore Leaf pajama's as a kid. I'm not trading Matthews. That leaves two guys I like a lot. Of those two, i select Mitch. Last off season he was dimes on a dollar. He's played really well this year so that's not the case now. You can get a nice return. Willy is a really good player. He might be the guy right now if you trade you get dimes in return.

My trade has always been Marner for Tkachuk. The Leafs need attitude. Initiate not retaliate. That will open up room moneywise too. Love Mitch. But that's who I'd choose.

 

[francis246]

i don't know why this response is directed at me considering i never mentioned any names and only said players have been traded with NMC's , Kabs had a nmc , didn't want to leave but was eventually convinced to waive if you want an example from our team

Sorry meant to tag tonedog,

 

[pcruz]

A few years ago, while the hate for Phil was at a peak, I wrote here that Nylander's best case scenario was to be similar to Kessel.
It's safe to say he is nowhere close.
Nylander has been given all of the benefits Phil never had here and has not been able to impose himself, but has had all of the same deficiencies Kessel had and then some.

At the top of his game, Nylander is worth much more than his contract, however he is so inconsistent that most of the time he feels overpaid.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm one of his biggest fans. He's been pretty bad last few weeks though. He needs to seriously do something because he's really not playing good at all. Even when he struggled in the past, it was mostly luck/cold streak, not what we're seeing now. He's falling easily, he's losing the puck easily and not making good decisions. A lot of players go through that though. He won't be the first or last to go through a really bad stretch of hockey. Let's not forget he was one of our better players for the first 3 or so months. We saw it with Marner for awhile as well.

With all that said, he's not a player you just trade for cap space. He's way too good for that. Leafs can't make a mistake if they trade a player of that caliber. So it won't be an easy trade if the Leafs chose that option.

We'll see how he finishes the season and what the Leafs could potentially do. I am not opposed to do a big shake-up trade to shuffle the deck in a bigger way.

 

[LeafGrief]

Tavares is my number one albatross. I think you can delete his on ice contribution and spend the $11 million on whatever your heart desires and the Leafs reasonably come out ahead.

Moving Nylander has merit if there's a hockey trade component where you just cash in his strengths for a different set of elite abilities to make the team different. I wouldn't be doing it out of anger to punish him cause he's lazy though.

I think that's crazy talk. He's a PPG two way centre, you can't just delete that from the team and then replace it with UFA's. Where are you going to get that kind of asset value to trade for a replacement? JT isn't the best 2c in the league right now, and not on that contract, but you're far too obsessed with the contract or what he used to be if you're willing to chuck a guy with 1c impact completely into the dumpster. Cap space does not get you adequate replacements, you either need to sign that player to a UFA deal, trade assets for them, or develop them. We don't have a replacement in the pipeline, so how are you planning to pay for this?

Sure, you can trade Nylander in a hockey deal. Hockey deals are always fine by me.

I would trade Nylander for balance in the lineup. If we can get a top pairing D or a player with that potential+ I’d pull the trigger.

Defense: Rielly - Brodie - Muzzin - Top pairing defenseman in this deal - Liljgren - Sandin - Giordano(?)
Forwards: Matthews - Tavares - Marner - ????

If you trade Nylander we only have two top6 wingers (Marner and Bunting). Are you counting on Knies and Robertson for this scenario to work? We've got some decent depth on the wings, but trading Nylander for a defenseman does not make us a more balanced team. It completely shifts us from being an offensive to a defensive team. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not the balance you say you're after.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think that's crazy talk. He's a PPG two way centre, you can't just delete that from the team and then replace it with UFA's. Where are you going to get that kind of asset value to trade for a replacement? JT isn't the best 2c in the league right now, and not on that contract, but you're far too obsessed with the contract or what he used to be if you're willing to chuck a guy with 1c impact completely into the dumpster. Cap space does not get you adequate replacements, you either need to sign that player to a UFA deal, trade assets for them, or develop them. We don't have a replacement in the pipeline, so how are you planning to pay for this?

Sure, you can trade Nylander in a hockey deal. Hockey deals are always fine by me.

Defense: Rielly - Brodie - Muzzin - Top pairing defenseman in this deal - Liljgren - Sandin - Giordano(?)
Forwards: Matthews - Tavares - Marner - ????

If you trade Nylander we only have two top6 wingers (Marner and Bunting). Are you counting on Knies and Robertson for this scenario to work? We've got some decent depth on the wings, but trading Nylander for a defenseman does not make us a more balanced team. It completely shifts us from being an offensive to a defensive team. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not the balance you say you're after.

Teams like Pittsburgh, Dallas, Calgary, St Louis, Colorado, Tampa, etc. regularly have guys available that can slot up and down the lineup.

What are you so afraid of, exactly?

We have players not-named-Nylander that can play second line in-house already, nevermind on next year's FA market as well?

 

[LeafGrief]

Teams like Pittsburgh, Dallas, Calgary, St Louis, Colorado, Tampa, etc. regularly have guys available that can slot up and down the lineup.

What are you so afraid of, exactly?

We have players not-named-Nylander that can play second line in-house already, nevermind on next year's FA market as well?

Oh boy I can't wait to sign wingers as UFA's, that always goes well for us and every other team that does it.

I don't state it explicitly in the post that you quoted, but I am fine with the Leafs trading anyone not named Matthews and Rielly. Literally anyone else is fair game to be moved and if Dubas wants to go out and trade Nylander for a defenseman then that's cool with me. But I will take the time to argue with you guys about what that kind of move entails. It takes us 30 years to develop a player as good as Nylander and then people act like we can replace him as a UFA or that Kase can do his job and it's just not realistic. Trading Nylander for a defenseman completely changes the way this team looks and I'm going to talk about it.

But since you asked, I'm afraid of having a forward situation like Edmonton's. Obviously we'd have better defense in that scenario and would still be a good hockey team, but that's just shuffling the problem around. Don't call shuffling the deck a hockey trade. Maybe we get lucky and Knies or Robertson blossom to take his place. Maybe Liljegren or Sandin take a huge step forward and become that top pairing guy, meaning we don't need the move for balance. Maybe you can sign a Nylander replacement as a UFA. If those things happen, wonderful, trade Nylander away. But until those magic bullets are in our lineup, Nylander is the going concern and the difficulty in replacement must be recognized.

 

[Bomber0104]

Oh boy I can't wait to sign wingers as UFA's, that always goes well for us and every other team that does it.

I don't state it explicitly in the post that you quoted, but I am fine with the Leafs trading anyone not named Matthews and Rielly. Literally anyone else is fair game to be moved and if Dubas wants to go out and trade Nylander for a defenseman then that's cool with me. But I will take the time to argue with you guys about what that kind of move entails. It takes us 30 years to develop a player as good as Nylander and then people act like we can replace him as a UFA or that Kase can do his job and it's just not realistic. Trading Nylander for a defenseman completely changes the way this team looks and I'm going to talk about it.

But since you asked, I'm afraid of having a forward situation like Edmonton's. Obviously we'd have better defense in that scenario and would still be a good hockey team, but that's just shuffling the problem around. Don't call shuffling the deck a hockey trade. Maybe we get lucky and Knies or Robertson blossom to take his place. Maybe Liljegren or Sandin take a huge step forward and become that top pairing guy, meaning we don't need the move for balance. Maybe you can sign a Nylander replacement as a UFA. If those things happen, wonderful, trade Nylander away. But until those magic bullets are in our lineup, Nylander is the going concern and the difficulty in replacement must be recognized.

We developed a far better winger in the very next draft, Mitch Marner...

All-situations player, better point-producer, play-maker which bodes very well with the goalscoring phenom centre we drafted in 2016, Auston Matthews...

Nylander is literally just a bowtie on an offence that's already well setup.

Is it Nylander's fault that Dubas spent $11 million on a UFA centre that's near immovable? Of course not. But that's the position we're in. Now the money needs to shift accordingly, particularly since Dubas couldn't seem to keep Matthews and Marner's contracts down following JT's.

I'd rather do what's best for the team than William Nylander's feelings.

He'll end up somewhere nice and his career will progress just fine regardless, possibly better a la Elias Lindholm / Carolina.

I don't know what else to say for the people with the love affairs, really. Your world-view is so rigid with this very one-dimensional player.

 

[therealkoho]

The expected return is, IMO: pick between 10-15, a 2nd round pick, a cheap borderline prospect forward.

As an example: Anaheim's 1st round pick, 2023 2nd round pick and Sam Steel.


I'm not trying to pick on Nylander, but I do think decisions on the core have to be made when they have at least 2 years left on their contracts to maximize trade value.

By the way, this doesn't apply to Matthews or Marner because they are both, without argument, top 5 in their position and almost impossible to replace without another long rebuild.

Need a little more than that I think, and I'd take Carrick back over Steel

 

[therealkoho]

I'd trade Tavares first. Tell him he has zero options.

That would certainly solve the UFA problem the Bud's seemingly have, because no one would ever want to come here ever again.

 

[riffle]

Would Nylander be half the goal scorer he is if he wasn't cheating for offense all the time?

Matthews has come into his own on the defensive end and may score 60 this season. If 88 focused more on D, would he be much more than a 20 goal guy? Or, do you feel those aren't mutually exclusive concerning him?

The Cobra is on a near 32 goal pace and he plays D and is averaging over 3.5 minutes less ATOI. I'd rather hold onto him and send 88 elsewhere for a guy with tons of passion and some ability to score. We don't need that backward, again.

 

[therealkoho]

The solution that works for both the Leafs and Tavares is to LTIR him for most of the next 3 seasons. JT stays, the Leafs honour his NMC, the Leafs can use the freed up cap space to add. Everybody is happy !!

Except he kisses his chance at the HoF goodbye. So no soap as they say.

 

[PromisedLand]

You don't trade Willy. You try to re-sign him ASAP at a reasonable cap hit and from there you decide.

If you still want to deal him then you can deal a fully signed Willy that will have a lot more value. Also, I'd rather Robidas Island Tavares than trade Nylander; I'd also move Nylander to center to take over from Tavares once he is done.

We don't have a 2C in the prospect pool either. Trading Nylander is one of the dumbest thing we can do.

XXX-Matthews-Marner
Knies-Nylander-XXX
Robertson-XXX-XXX
XXX-XXX-XXX

Rielly-XXX
Sandin Liljegren
XXX XXX

XXX
XXX

I expect these to be pieces moving forward after JT is hopefully moved to the Robidas Island or post JT era.

 

[Puckstuff]

That would certainly solve the UFA problem the Bud's seemingly have, because no one would ever want to come here ever again.

That’s a belief not a fact

 

[Le Cobra]

Would Nylander be half the goal scorer he is if he wasn't cheating for offense all the time?

Matthews has come into his own on the defensive end and may score 60 this season. If 88 focused more on D, would he be much more than a 20 goal guy? Or, do you feel those aren't mutually exclusive concerning him?

The Cobra is on a near 32 goal pace and he plays D and is averaging over 3.5 minutes less ATOI. I'd rather hold onto him and send 88 elsewhere for a guy with tons of passion and some ability to score. We don't need that backward, again.

who is the cobra? i thought that was me

 

[Machinae]

Nylander is lazy on the back check, cheating in the neutral zone/blowing the zone early when he -thinks- his teammate will win a 50/50 pick battle, and bails on any form of contact- given or received. It's not a good look, no matter how skilled he is. If he's saving it for the playoffs and he is a difference maker, we'll have to wait and see.

Regardless, you can't move him unless the deal brings in significant assets. If the Leafs are willing and Nylander gets significant interest, and the Leafs already have two players they've scouted and can add with the money and assets from the Nylander trade, I'd like to see it.

Skill without will seems to be the biggest downfall of this team.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander hasn't been near his best lately, that much is for certain. I wonder if he's actually got an injury of some kind, that we won't find out about, until he has off season surgery. I don't know what the problem is, but we should get a lot more from him. Talking about trades, based upon a few months of bad play, isn't exactly a very good idea though, as it's the long-term play that is important, and he's often been very good. Let's wait and see how the team does in the playoffs, and what his contribution is. I do believe that taking him off the line with Tavares was needed, and that we need to find something that does work, for our team to have it's best success in the playoffs.

Trading Tavares is never going to happen, so people can just stop with that idea. He has a full NMC, and moved here primarily for family and his wife's career. It isn't happening, you don't ask.

Once the playoffs are over, then you talk about what worked, what didn't, and what, if any changes need to happen. This is a very premature discussion, that has all the opportunity to make some comments look very bad.

 

[LeafGrief]

We developed a far better winger in the very next draft, Mitch Marner...

All-situations player, better point-producer, play-maker which bodes very well with the goalscoring phenom centre we drafted in 2016, Auston Matthews...

Nylander is literally just a bowtie on an offence that's already well setup.

Is it Nylander's fault that Dubas spent $11 million on a UFA centre that's near immovable? Of course not. But that's the position we're in. Now the money needs to shift accordingly, particularly since Dubas couldn't seem to keep Matthews and Marner's contracts down following JT's.

I'd rather do what's best for the team than William Nylander's feelings.

He'll end up somewhere nice and his career will progress just fine regardless, possibly better a la Elias Lindholm / Carolina.

I don't know what else to say for the people with the love affairs, really. Your world-view is so rigid with this very one-dimensional player.

Man you should really read my post and respond to what I wrote rather than continuing to whine about love affairs. In the post that you just quoted, I wrote: "Literally anyone else is fair game to be moved and if Dubas wants to go out and trade Nylander for a defenseman then that's cool with me."

Does that sound like a love affair to you? Do I really not meet your threshold for having flex to my world view? God damn dude, I really think you forgot to read the rest of my post after writing out your little response to what you bolded. Spare me your ridiculous whining about my world view that you made up and either respond to what I wrote, or go find someone who actually thinks whatever the hell you seem to think I'm about.

 

[Leafs1991]

Nylander is lazy on the back check, cheating in the neutral zone/blowing the zone early when he -thinks- his teammate will win a 50/50 pick battle, and bails on any form of contact- given or received. It's not a good look, no matter how skilled he is. If he's saving it for the playoffs and he is a difference maker, we'll have to wait and see.

Regardless, you can't move him unless the deal brings in significant assets. If the Leafs are willing and Nylander gets significant interest, and the Leafs already have two players they've scouted and can add with the money and assets from the Nylander trade, I'd like to see it.

Skill without will seems to be the biggest downfall of this team.

He bails on any physical contact? You know thats just simply not true right?

 

[ER89]

9th in 5v5 scoring for c’s, .94ppg, 61% FO (2nd to Bergeron), 1st in puck battles won according to sportlogiq tracking.
He’s not the guy he was his first year here, but he’s also not the tire fire some reactionaries will paint him out to be.
The issue mostly lies with the fact him & 2022 Willy have 0 chem

They were also both snakebitten like crazy till recently which kinda adds to the struggles. You get a few to go in and all of a sudden that defense kicks in, that fire comes out. Either way hopefully they get their shit together cus lord knows we need all the help we can get lol.

 

[Mugzy97]

Having Nylander is a luxury to this team where we can pull from to help find a top pairing defenseman. Would I trade him in the off-season? All depends on the return and if it makes this team better going forward.

 

[Machinae]

He bails on any physical contact? You know thats just simply not true right?

You caught me, I just lied about all the times I've seen him bail on a puck because someone sized him up for contact.

And damn, I'm just ignoring all the bodychecks he lays into on the forecheck. Someone should make a video package.

/s

 

[Mugzy97]

He bails on any physical contact? You know thats just simply not true right?

I've seen it more times than I can count on both hands., even in the playoffs last year. He definitely avoids contact sometimes.

 

[ACC1224]

He bails on any physical contact? You know thats just simply not true right?

Possibly more than any other player in the league. Really should change his name to FlyByLander.
It really is incredible how many flybys he does in a game.

 

[ZEBROA]

The best would be to solve the second line with Nylander on it and without JT. So no mor 7/11 line, time to put all eggs in one basket, time to launch Mitch Matt and JT in the "the 33mill thrill " also known as "the Siamese triplets" or "the sanzaru monkeys" .
Bunting righwing nylander C/LW LW/C no idea, the fastest we got thats not on the current 3rd line.