Salary Cap: Irrespective of playoff result, would you trade Nylander in the offseason?

[Mess]

Nylander isn't the problem for his C.H.%, as it matches his production, its having 3 X $11 mil players on the same team.

One of the $11 mil players should be dealt (Tavares with NMC as captain is difficult) or Marner.

You take that $11 mil and bring a in stable capable #1G for $5-6 mil and and top 6 forward for $5-$6 mil for that similar $11 mil cap consumption and you're off to a good start.

Nylander flexibility as a C or W allows you freedom to pick a winger or a centre and build accordingly.

 

[francis246]

I mean, Matthews? No, Tavares? He has a NMC so it’s really his choice if he moves. Nylander? Okay, sure. His cap is much less and he won’t get as good of a return though.

Marner? You could go out and probably get a world class player or a really serviceable player and great futures plus a large cap relief.

The return on Marner is better, the cap outlook looks a lot better and you haven’t been able to count on him in the playoffs.

I guess there is another option, really shake things up and look to move both Marner and Nylander?

I’m not looking at this as a player has to go because they suck, a player has to go because the makeup of the team has to change. In my opinion, Marner does that in a much better way than Nylander, but maybe both would be best.

Think of the possibilities moving Marner could open up. He’s in his prime, can be a top 5 player, you wouldn’t need to retain like you would with Tavares or any older player.

Ya Marner is the one who needs to be moved unfortunately.

Marner will never be moved, his impact on the team is too great. I think you move Nylander, it’s not about getting the greatest return. It’s about making a move that shakes up the core without completely distorting the foundation of the team. Moving Marner accomplishes nothing, I’m sorry but you move a talent like that, nothing coming back in the trade is replacing a player like him. You keep your 1/2 punch. Matthews and Marner.

Nylander is whatever, he’s got a lot of skill but you can use his cap hit to bring in a guy with more grit or whatever you think is the solution.

The only other option a lot of people aren’t talking about is some how getting Muzzin to move. Which is far more realistic than JT moving. I could see Muzzin being open to a change of scenery.

 

[All Mod Cons]

LOL and again he’d say no. Tavares won’t give a shit, at the end of the day his contract is too big. You can’t bury it and he’s not bad enough to demote him & oh yeah, if you do that to Tavares you think the rest of the boys on the team are gonna stand for that shit? They are a brotherhood. Marner and Matthews would be thinking if they are willing to do that to Tavares they’d be willing to do that to us. Kiss them good bye in UFA. Every decision you make as management has a consequence. I’m sorry but you need to accept it, Tavares is here to stay. Once his deal is up he’ll sign for a million or less each year and I’m okay with that.

Sweet. So we just need to piss 4 more years away and then we can start to build a playoff threat.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The only way that even becomes a possibility is if the entire front office is sent packing. We’re stuck with JT for a myriad of reasons as presently constituted.

Deal. Move Dubas to director, you're the best Kyle, of Scouting and Player Development. He can have his process and program, his data, and his ideas of a direct path from the ECHL to the NHL.

And we can have someone else putting the finishing touches to all the wonderful work Kyle has done.

 

[francis246]

Sweet. So we just need to piss 4 more years away and then we can start to build a playoff threat.

I think a lot of people will be surprised this playoffs. I do think Matthews and Marner will produce. It will be wonderful to watch. I’m not one to hold onto the past. Each season is a new start, new season. But I do have faith with a healthy Campbell this team will do damage in the playoffs. People are all pissy we are in a wildcard spot but that is literally best case scenario. Crossing over would be a gift. The fact of the matter is if Toronto makes the playoffs they have a decent shot. There really isn’t a team that scares me tbh.

Toronto matches up well with Florida, Boston or Carolina. We see how they play against good teams.

 

[Strangle]

This conversation is predicated on another bad playoff exit, so if that’s the case then all options are on the table, no question. I just find it a warped argument right now when you could legitimately argue he’s never been worth more crap wise than this very moment, it doesn’t acknowledge his unparalleled value. As we sit here today the thought of moving a Marner is crazy, he’s literally the core of this team, in all situations. If we lose first round, then it’s a different convo…..

I’m sorry, I disagree. This convo was predicated on last years bad playoff exit. Fans and pundits (and probably internally at MLSE) have been seriously discussing breaking up this core since game 7 vs Montreal.

I’m not going to keep kicking the can down the road. If there’s a bad playoff exit this year, the mistake was not shaking it up this year. We know what this team is after last years playoffs, we’ve been having this conversation for multiple years, now we are 1 year past when needed changes were obvious.

The point of moving Marner is exactly because of his incredible value. You’re not dumping him, you’re making a hockey trade to improve the team in the playoffs.

 

[Strangle]

Nylander isn't the problem for his C.H.%, as it matches his production, its having 3 X $11 mil players on the same team.

One of the $11 mil players should be dealt (Tavares with NMC as captain is difficult) or Marner.

You take that $11 mil and bring a in stable capable #1G for $5-6 mil and and top 6 forward for $5-$6 mil for that similar $11 mil cap consumption and you're off to a good start.

Nylander flexibility as a C or W allows you freedom to pick a winger or a centre and build accordingly.

Mess gets it

 

[ToneDog]

No way you trade Nylander. Although he deserves criticism, he’s shown brilliance that you can’t replace. I also don’t believe you get as much for him in return as some think here, the name is a complicated metric around the league.

Hes getting some points, some absolve him simply on this score. I’m looking at his game, his stop and starts, lacks overall intensity and his motor is misfiring. Chalk it up to a slump, perhaps confirmation he will always be a moody player, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t a rare asset. We will all forget his recent play if he returns to previous form and history suggests he will.

So we lose in round #1 and we keep 16,34,88 and 91, pick up a few spare parts at the junkyard and take another run ?? At some point the brain trust has to admit, this core cannot get it done without better support.

 

[RomanianLeafs]

Not moving Marner..Nylander is the first to go...many teams would pay premium for him..1 st + top prospect + good roster player

 

[Strangle]

Marner will never be moved, his impact on the team is too great. I think you move Nylander, it’s not about getting the greatest return. It’s about making a move that shakes up the core without completely distorting the foundation of the team. Moving Marner accomplishes nothing, I’m sorry but you move a talent like that, nothing coming back in the trade is replacing a player like him. You keep your 1/2 punch. Matthews and Marner.

Nylander is whatever, he’s got a lot of skill but you can use his cap hit to bring in a guy with more grit or whatever you think is the solution.

The only other option a lot of people aren’t talking about is some how getting Muzzin to move. Which is far more realistic than JT moving. I could see Muzzin being open to a change of scenery.

If Marner has such a huge impact on the team (I agree with you), maybe when the team is constantly choking and underperforming he’s the impact that needs to be removed.

Marner is the most immature player on an immature team. That impact has to be taken into account as much as the production has to be.

The team will survive it’s post Marner era and will likely be better for it in the playoffs

I don’t come to this conclusion lightly, Marner has been my favorite player on the team (Matthews is becoming that more and more though). I think Marner is amazing. I also think it’s possible moving him is the best for the team

 

[francis246]

So we lose in round #1 and we keep 16,34,88 and 91, pick up a few spare parts at the junkyard and take another run ?? At some point the brain trust has to admit, this core cannot get it done without better support.

Thank you!! And I don’t get why people take such offense to that. Every other team acknowledged that and went out and got another supporting forward. Yet Toronto shouldn’t do that because Matthews, Marner and Nylander are too good to be spending assets to help them. Tampa and Florida have equally as good core forwards and still went out and supplemented them. As great as Giordano is, Dubas should have gotten a second line LW or another forward of significance. Rakell would have been perfect

 

[francis246]

If Marner has such a huge impact on the team (I agree with you), maybe when the team is constantly choking and underperforming he’s the impact that needs to be removed.

Marner is the most immature player on an immature team. That impact has to be taken into account as much as the production has to be.

The team will survive it’s post Marner era and will likely be better for it in the playoffs

I don’t come to this conclusion lightly, Marner has been my favorite player on the team (Matthews is becoming that more and more though). I think Marner is amazing. I also think it’s possible moving him is the best for the team

Lol most immature? How do you quantify that. Are you in the dressing room? A lot of you guys fabricate narratives and run with it. It’s quite sad. Out of the core group he’s probably the most mature, he’s engaged to his fiancé (so clearly he’s mature enough to make that type of commitment to his lady), actively involved in the community, always smiling and having fun while playing and has really been a true leader this season. Oh yeah, doesn’t he lead the NHL in points since January? Also takes on penalty kill responsibilities.

I don’t know why Marner gets all the blame, it’s quite annoying. It’s a group, you can’t place it all on one guys shoulders. Trading him would be the biggest mistake in Franchise history. And I have no doubt he’s going to continue to prove that this post season. Now that he’s actually developed his shot and has his confidence I don’t see him being that weak link.

 

[francis246]

I’m sorry, I disagree. This convo was predicated on last years bad playoff exit. Fans and pundits (and probably internally at MLSE) have been seriously discussing breaking up this core since game 7 vs Montreal.

I’m not going to keep kicking the can down the road. If there’s a bad playoff exit this year, the mistake was not shaking it up this year. We know what this team is after last years playoffs, we’ve been having this conversation for multiple years, now we are 1 year past when needed changes were obvious.

The point of moving Marner is exactly because of his incredible value. You’re not dumping him, you’re making a hockey trade to improve the team in the playoffs.

The problem is trading Marner isn’t going to make you better. It will make you worse, unless it’s a 1 for 1 impact player. For example Marner for Matthew Tkchauk + some assets) Also if you’re a true NHL fan, you know that trade deadline acquisitions are more successful in helping you to win a Stanley Cup than UFA signings. So many people are crying about the JT signing but then want to go out and get two more players at 6 million a piece when those contracts will never be worth it. Keep your core, keep adding at the deadline. That has always been the winning formula for Stanley Cup winning teams.

 

[ToneDog]

Thank you!! And I don’t get why people take such offense to that. Every other team acknowledged that and went out and got another supporting forward. Yet Toronto shouldn’t do that because Matthews, Marner and Nylander are too good to be spending assets to help them. Tampa and Florida have equally as good core forwards and still went out and supplemented them. As great as Giordano is, Dubas should have gotten a second line LW or another forward of significance. Rakell would have been perfect

Rangers picked up Copp, Vetrano, Motte and Braun. They have a goalie that can win games by himself, the reigning Norris trophy winner, Trouba, Schnieder, $11+m Panarin, Zibanajad, 44 goal heavy winger Kreieder, SC winner Goodrow, etc. etc. We have Matthews, Marner, a lazy 88, a declining 91, no true #1G, team friendly soft top dman and a bunch of cheap foot soldiers. The Rangers are in a good place and trending in the right direction.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Trading Marner would be a massive mistake.

 

[ToneDog]

The problem is trading Marner isn’t going to make you better. It will make you worse, unless it’s a 1 for 1 impact player. For example Marner for Matthew Tkchauk + some assets) Also if you’re a true NHL fan, you know that trade deadline acquisitions are more successful in helping you to win a Stanley Cup than UFA signings. So many people are crying about the JT signing but then want to go out and get two more players at 6 million a piece when those contracts will never be worth it. Keep your core, keep adding at the deadline. That has always been the winning formula for Stanley Cup winning teams.

Marner for Matthew Tkchauk + some assets has sailed and MT is going to get $9+m soon. If you can get a haul for Marner like Sakic got for Duchene you have to consider it but Leafs won't and it will be Willie that is moved unless they decide to rinse and repeat.

 

[Strangle]

Lol most immature? How do you quantify that. Are you in the dressing room? A lot of you guys fabricate narratives and run with it. It’s quite sad. Out of the core group he’s probably the most mature, he’s engaged to his fiancé (so clearly he’s mature enough to make that type of commitment to his lady), actively involved in the community, always smiling and having fun while playing and has really been a true leader this season. Oh yeah, doesn’t he lead the NHL in points since January? Also takes on penalty kill responsibilities.

I don’t know why Marner gets all the blame, it’s quite annoying. It’s a group, you can’t place it all on one guys shoulders. Trading him would be the biggest mistake in Franchise history. And I have no doubt he’s going to continue to prove that this post season. Now that he’s actually developed his shot and has his confidence I don’t see him being that weak link.

Marner isn’t getting all the blame, you don’t need to come to his defense. He’s a world class hockey player, he’s fantastic.

But he’s immature. And that is a problem the entire team has. How do I qualify that? Watch him, listen to him talk. Watch him cry in the penalty box.



How many over the glass penalties has Marner had in the playoffs? From the articles last year I think I remember it being 5 or 6? Immature.

Go watch all of his post game press conferences after the team didn’t show up for game 7 (pick a year, any year, then watch them all, every loss). “We didn’t come ready to play” “nothing I need to do differently” “look in the mirror”, etc

 

[theTTC]

I mean, Matthews? No, Tavares? He has a NMC so it’s really his choice if he moves. Nylander? Okay, sure. His cap is much less and he won’t get as good of a return though.

Marner? You could go out and probably get a world class player or a really serviceable player and great futures plus a large cap relief.

The return on Marner is better, the cap outlook looks a lot better and you haven’t been able to count on him in the playoffs.

I guess there is another option, really shake things up and look to move both Marner and Nylander?

I’m not looking at this as a player has to go because they suck, a player has to go because the makeup of the team has to change. In my opinion, Marner does that in a much better way than Nylander, but maybe both would be best.

Think of the possibilities moving Marner could open up. He’s in his prime, can be a top 5 player, you wouldn’t need to retain like you would with Tavares or any older player.

Ya Marner is the one who needs to be moved unfortunately.

If there is any reason for Matthews not to walk in 2 years as a UFA (thanks, Dubas) it is because he and Marner form the best line in pro hockey. They are simply magic together. Moving Marner gives AM zero motivation to stay in this town.

 

[Optimist]

Nylander has shown flashes of brilliance the past couple of years and the he regresses again. Drives me crazy. His soft side is unacceptable. I've always said that he wouldn't go into a corner first if a butterfly was chasing him. He should be more consistent at this stage of his career. He does however do the best double flamingo that I've ever seen. I'll give him that.

 

[Leafs1991]

Trade Tavares, only chance you have of revitalizing that second line.

Anyone criticizing Marner is a bit delusional. He's a 1st line talent.

 

[Amadeus]

If I can trade Nylander in a package to acquire a stud 'G' or 'D' prospect, I will certainly do that.

However, he's a really good player and having him makes our offense pretty lethal so no way to lose.

I've always eyes Yaroslav Askarov from Nashville. Nylander for Askarov + 1st can give us enough cap space to replace Nylander with a 2nd line winger and build for the future as well.

 

[Strangle]

If there is any reason for Matthews not to walk in 2 years as a UFA (thanks, Dubas) it is because he and Marner form the best line in pro hockey. They are simply magic together. Moving Marner gives AM zero motivation to stay in this town.

What is Matthews going to do, follow to the team who trades for Marner? Ridiculous, the NHL isn’t the NBA (thank god).

Let me suggest a better motivation than having Marner on your team. Winning a Stanley cup.

 

[ToneDog]

If there is any reason for Matthews not to walk in 2 years as a UFA (thanks, Dubas) it is because he and Marner form the best line in pro hockey. They are simply magic together. Moving Marner gives AM zero motivation to stay in this town.

Maybe but I think $13+m x 8 is plenty of reason to stay in town.

 

[francis246]

Marner for Matthew Tkchauk + some assets has sailed and MT is going to get $9+m soon. If you can get a haul for Marner like Sakic got for Duchene you have to consider it but Leafs won't and it will be Willie that is moved unless they decide to rinse and repeat.

Exactly why I’d never make the move

 

[LeafGrief]

The playoff result will determine whether we’re keeping Marner or not. Nylander will be a domino effect from that decision.

I’m in no hurry to trade Nylander. He’s not doing well right now, but he’s on far more often than he’s off. Great player on a good contract, having a rough patch right now. We only need to trade him if we’re full on retooling, and I don’t think he’s the problem.