I'd give Keefe till the 20 game mark

[GoonieFace]

This is a serious question.

Do you believe Keefe is winning in spite of himself? I am only asking because it is pretty hard to have such a high winning percentage when you suck as a coach and the team you have is terrible, which you seemingly believe both to be true.

Is this team terrible? No. They just aren’t a Stanley cup contender either. They are in the worst place you can be in sports.

Is Keefe a terrible coach? Not sure, but given the “talent” he has, it’s hard not to win regular season games, as there are a lot of terrible teams in the NHL.

I have been adamant for awhile that this core will never have playoff success, And that’s on Dubas not having a clue, as he has squandered years here because of his nonsense “we can and we will BS”

 

[Jojalu]

Is this team terrible? No. They just aren’t a Stanley cup contender either. They are in the worst place you can be in sports.

Is Keefe a terrible coach? Not sure, but given the “talent” he has, it’s hard not to win regular season games, as there are a lot of terrible teams in the NHL.

I have been adamant for awhile that this core will never have playoff success, And that’s on Dubas not having a clue, as he has squandered years here because of his nonsense “we can and we will BS”

Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

I suppose Dubas feels like he has to support Keefe, as nobody else will, and he's the one who hired him.

Keefe's record this year would be considered good if he had the talent level of say Ottawa or Columbus to work with.

The comment "(t)he group is still responsive to him, very much so" is interesting. It is very specific, and sounds like he is directly rebutting stories he has heard about Keefe losing the room. A certain amount of "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas said nothing, and people said he was in hiding.
Dubas says something, and now it's he doth protest too much.


Clearly some outside observers on the internet know the situation better than our GM. Doesn't Dubas know he's only allowed to say what they personally think or else it's lies?

 

[ACC1224]

I suppose Dubas feels like he has to support Keefe, as nobody else will, and he's the one who hired him.

Keefe's record this year would be considered good if he had the talent level of say Ottawa or Columbus to work with.

The comment "(t)he group is still responsive to him, very much so" is interesting. It is very specific, and sounds like he is directly rebutting stories he has heard about Keefe losing the room. A certain amount of "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

Yeah the whole thing is weird, sort of resembles their tenure here.
He's better off not speaking, like the some of the Players he tends to say the wrong things.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is a tough team to coach in a lot of ways .. it is missing so much personnel wise .. da stars take too many games off .. no clutch tender .. no shutdown pair .. weak depth options .. to me coaching has been pretty good all things considered .. da issues are mostly in personnel from what i can see live at games

 

[geo25]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

They ALL deserve to go....starting with Shanaplan....

 

[Ianturnedbull]

This is a serious question.

Do you believe Keefe is winning in spite of himself? I am only asking because it is pretty hard to have such a high winning percentage when you suck as a coach and the team you have is terrible, which you seemingly believe both to be true.

How is Keefe winning percentage in the playoffs?

 

[Nineteen67]

How is Keefe winning percentage in the playoffs?

It’s not good, but it’s consistent.

.428 in Bo7

if you want to include the play in chance

.40 in Bo5.

 

[Racer88]

Dubas said nothing, and people said he was in hiding.
Dubas says something, and now it's he doth protest too much.


Clearly some outside observers on the internet know the situation better than our GM. Doesn't Dubas know he's only allowed to say what they personally think or else it's lies?

These are all good points however the things Dubas says should at least match what we see on the ice and far to many times it looks like he has lost the room…………or maybe they are just disinterested some nights

 

[Stephen]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

Sounds like Ross Atkins corporate speak. "Purposeful." As opposed to random and arbitrary, purposeless?

 

[Jojalu]

How is Keefe winning percentage in the playoffs?

So far not so great. I am not advocating for Keefe, nor am I hoping he gets fired.

I do know that you need to have regular season success to get to the playoffs. It is not as dismissable as some people like to pretend.

For a team like the Leafs though, he should be judged on his playoff record.

 

[Dekes For Days]

These are all good points however the things Dubas says should at least match what we see on the ice and far to many times it looks like he has lost the room…

Nobody here has any clue what goes on in the room, or whether the room is lost. There's really no reason to think it is.

Unfortunately, people who want the room to be lost point to the normal lows and struggles that teams and players experience and accuse it of being a result of a lost room, but that's based on nothing but their own desires.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Dubas is gonna give Keefe until the ♾ game mark.

 

[Racer88]

Nobody here has any clue what goes on in the room, or whether the room is lost. There's really no reason to think it is.

Unfortunately, people who want the room to be lost point to the normal lows and struggles that teams and players experience and accuse it of being a result of a lost room, but that's based on nothing but their own desires.

I don’t want the room to be lost
I want the team to have great goaltending instead of the mess we have had
I want the team to have great defence
i want the the highest paid 4 forwards to perform and score goals and lift the team up in the play offs especially in elimination games.
I want our expensive 4 move us past the first round instead of fading out when it really matters.
I want to win…..
Shanny, Dubas and Keefe have provided none of that.
I want them gone

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

What else is he going to say? No chance he throws Keefe under the bus. Especially to the vultures of the Toronto Media. But if shit does go sideways in the next couple of weeks, I'm sure he'll fire Keefe without hesitation.

 

[Stephen]

Nobody here has any clue what goes on in the room, or whether the room is lost. There's really no reason to think it is.

Unfortunately, people who want the room to be lost point to the normal lows and struggles that teams and players experience and accuse it of being a result of a lost room, but that's based on nothing but their own desires.

So the room could be lost, or not... and we would have no way of knowing. Shrodinger's Dressing Room.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

With points percentage does winning percentage matter anymore?

Does anyone else look at it like a .500 team? We have won 50% of our games?

Or am i too old school

You are correct. 8 wins, 8 losses (although we got 3 loser points).

 

[DarkKnight]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

He’s the only coach he’s ever hired in three leagues, their fates are tied. The guy can’t even conceive of another option. Dubas’ loyalty is perhaps his greatest flaw, that’s weird to say but he’s created a cozy climate because of it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas said nothing, and people said he was in hiding.
Dubas says something, and now it's he doth protest too much.


Clearly some outside observers on the internet know the situation better than our GM. Doesn't Dubas know he's only allowed to say what they personally think or else it's lies?

The issue is not whether he is speaking, but what he does or doesn't say.

 

[Eye Test]

This is a tough team to coach in a lot of ways .. it is missing so much personnel wise .. da stars take too many games off .. no clutch tender .. no shutdown pair .. weak depth options .. to me coaching has been pretty good all things considered .. da issues are mostly in personnel from what i can see live at games

Personnel + style of play are the issues.

why doesnt every player throw hits whenever possible or screen the goalie/get to the net. We just cycle around the perimeter until we hit shin pads.

Why do we have to reinvent the wheel and pass back over and over to maintain possession when it doesn’t make sense too. Over thinking and complicated hockey systems are the worst because it makes the player take the extra half second to think about what he should do instead of react on hockey instinct instantly. This gets amplified in the playoffs when teams are hitting more and there is less room/time.

Simplify our game and play as a team. No star treatment.

 

[geo25]

Nobody here has any clue what goes on in the room, or whether the room is lost. There's really no reason to think it is.

Unfortunately, people who want the room to be lost point to the normal lows and struggles that teams and players experience and accuse it of being a result of a lost room, but that's based on nothing but their own desires.

But....we can conjecture. These athletes are priviledged & very well paid. The Organization spares them nothing. It would seem, I suggest, a lack of cohesion, a unified intent. This is on management/coaching to identify and remedy. Imho I think there must be a locker room " problem" of some kind that keeps them dusinterested despite all the above. They do not play nor appear as a team that has a common goal....to win. Their play (or lack of it) is evident in the results and in their body language.
Conclusion? I think there is a locker room issue of some kind.

 

[Hellcat]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

I suppose you can take this comment a couple of ways

1) It sounds like a press release from a PR department

2) The GM just said that the problem is not the coach. so if the problem is not the coach , it has to be the players or the GM. The players never take any fault, so it has to be the GM because he is responsible for his actions and the players he signs. So in essence Kyle just told you the problem is Kyle.

 

[Hellcat]

Personnel + style of play are the issues.

why doesnt every player throw hits whenever possible or screen the goalie/get to the net. We just cycle around the perimeter until we hit shin pads.

Why do we have to reinvent the wheel and pass back over and over to maintain possession when it doesn’t make sense too. Over thinking and complicated hockey systems are the worst because it makes the player take the extra half second to think about what he should do instead of react on hockey instinct instantly. This gets amplified in the playoffs when teams are hitting more and there is less room/time.

Simplify our game and play as a team. No star treatment.

I'm with ya this possession game is a passive way to play defence. I mean you want skilled player's playing with the puck but you also want skilled players who are capable of playing without the puck, 2nd line JT and WN I'm looking at you. Puck possession is also a way to compensate for players who are poor at playing without the puck, If you are always playing a possession game in the regular season, when you face good teams in the playoffs, who also play a possession game. you are then forced to play a game, that you are not comfortable playing, defending without the puck.

I think we can all see this team is a paper tiger, a one trick pony, not able to adjust to play different styles, which is and always be their Achilles heel. I'm not sure you can even call them a team, they are a group of skilled athletes that have individual games of excellence.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don’t want the room to be lost
I want the team to have great goaltending instead of the mess we have had
I want the team to have great defence
i want the the highest paid 4 forwards to perform and score goals and lift the team up in the play offs especially in elimination games.
I want our expensive 4 move us past the first round instead of fading out when it really matters.
I want to win…..
Shanny, Dubas and Keefe have provided none of that.
I want them gone

The team has had great defense for years. And while it's very early, Samsonov has been great for us so far this year.
Putting aside that our big 4 have performed in the playoffs, why is that relevant anyway? We are 65 games away from the playoffs even starting. It has nothing to do with right now.
You say you don't want the room to be lost, but you simultaneously say that you want everybody purged. Kind of contradictory.

So the room could be lost, or not... and we would have no way of knowing.

Yeah, as outside observers, none of us have any clue what's going on in the dressing room, so we shouldn't be declaring that we do and calling somebody who actually does know a liar because the truth doesn't match our preconceived feelings.

The issue is not whether he is speaking, but what he does or doesn't say.

There's nothing wrong with anything he said there. It's a pretty normal, mundane statement.

But....we can conjecture.

Not accurately, that's for sure. You're reading far, far, far too much into things and making pure assumptions if you're deducing locker room issues from anything you've seen.

By the same logic, Tampa is having locker room issues, and they should fire their multi-cup-winning coach.