I'd give Keefe till the 20 game mark

[Nineteen67]

The 1998-99 Pat Quinn team actually had a lot of unexpected skill and speed. But they underwent the transformation to get heavier and grindier and older around 2000 when they brought on Corson, Tucker and Roberts to match up with the beasts in the east.

They were willing to sacrifice to win, but struggled to harness their emotions.
I’m afraid the Leafs will never have the teams that play like Pat Burns and Pat Quinn coached.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The problem with firing Keefe is that beyond sitting Lilly in last year's playoffs, I haven't really seen him making mistakes.

The players just aren't performing and producing, there's not a lot to it. This roster on paper should be good enough to be right up with the best.

Matthews looks like a shadow of last year offensively and defensively.

Marner has glimspes of greatness but almost never has an impact comparable to players like Kucherov or Pastrnak.

Rielly is a workhorse but he should not be our best D. 2 of our direct competitors each have 2 defencemen that are better (Boston and Tampa).

Goaltending looked good with Samsanov but still...can we consider it better than any of the best East teams? Maybe Carolina?



So you fire Keefe, and then what? It still comes back to a flawed roster that is underachieving.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I would love to see the Leafs grab someone to play with Matthews, have Marner play with JT, and let Nylander be the guy on the 3rd line.

I think Willy is far more dangerous when he doesn't defer to JT or Matthews and tries to create for himself.

Agreed Willy looks a lot better away from Tavares. Not as bad with Matthews.

Willy looked really good centering Robertson and Malgin. I think the problem is that they would quickly become the second line, and push JT to 3C, which management doesn't want.

 

[notDatsyuk]

They aren't going to fire Keefe because for as midcore as they have been, as of today they are 2nd in the division, 7th in the entire NHL just 1 point back of LA for 4th in the entire NHL.

What does this mean? It's very simple.

It means as bad as they have been and let's be honest It's mostly goaltending.

It's not falling apart and until it does Keefe is safe weither we like it or not

Today they are fifth in the East and tied with Seattle for tenth overall.

The biggest factor is sloppy play rather than goaltending.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

holy crap- how many times do you have to be told, am/mm will never be split up because of mm and daddy.

 

[Fogelhund]

I get the desire to change, pretty much just for the sake of change... but it's pretty meaningless at this point. Is a change in coaching suddenly going to improve Matthew's shooting? 4.2%? From 15.6% last year?

Today they are fifth in the East and tied with Seattle for tenth overall.

The biggest factor is sloppy play rather than goaltending.

Sloppy play has been a problem. I'd call in problem #2 right now.
Running with the 4th string goalie is a bit of a problem, but that will correct itself.

I believe the biggest problem is 5v5 scoring at the moment, in particular the Matthews/Marner line. Pacing for 31 goals this year, compared to 81 last year. If we don't get that situation fixed, the rest is irrelevant.

 

[ToneDog]

The problem with firing Keefe is that beyond sitting Lilly in last year's playoffs, I haven't really seen him making mistakes.

The players just aren't performing and producing, there's not a lot to it. This roster on paper should be good enough to be right up with the best.

Matthews looks like a shadow of last year offensively and defensively.

Marner has glimspes of greatness but almost never has an impact comparable to players like Kucherov or Pastrnak.

Rielly is a workhorse but he should not be our best D. 2 of our direct competitors each have 2 defencemen that are better (Boston and Tampa).

Goaltending looked good with Samsanov but still...can we consider it better than any of the best East teams? Maybe Carolina?



So you fire Keefe, and then what? It still comes back to a flawed roster that is underachieving.

Kutch and Pasta have much better shots than Mitch and are not afraid to go to the dirty areas. Will be interesting to see whether Bruins can get Pasta cheaper than Marner. As it stands, I'd take Pasta over Marner in a heartbeat.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The loser point has always existed. Ending regulation tied is called a tie, which has been a point on the standings since this leagues inception.

The only difference is the extra point in an OT/SO win

I think the real issue is that some games result in more points than others.

Every game should be worth the same: 2 points (no overtime or shitout) or 3 points (3 for regulation win, 1 each for tie at the end of 60, and 1 more for winning in OT or SO).

 

[Magic Man]

There are only 5 teams in the NHL with more points than Toronto right now. There are a lot of underachieving squads right now. Tampa and Florida probably aren't going to fire their coach. The Leafs have played 8 of 16 games with Erik Kallgren in net, their 3rd string goaltender. The ugly losses to bottom feeders San Jose, Arizona and Anaheim were all Kallgren starts.

Murray might be good to go now, they've managed to keep in the mix without him, let's see how they do with him.

The big guns are carrying the load on offense, only really waiting on Matthews to hit his stride. They've found a solid 4th line (ZAR-Kampf-Malgin). The young guys are every day players (Sandin-Liljegren-Robertson-Malgin). They lost some physicality from the loss of Muzzin but his absense allows them cap flexibility, they would have had to move somebody at full health, now they can keep that player. It also allows them to utilize a 23 man roster, where they help to make up for the loss of grit from Muzzin's departure with 3 throw back players (Clifford-Simmonds-Benn).

There are reasons for optimism.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I get the desire to change, pretty much just for the sake of change... but it's pretty meaningless at this point. Is a change in coaching suddenly going to improve Matthew's shooting? 4.2%? From 15.6% last year?



Sloppy play has been a problem. I'd call in problem #2 right now.
Running with the 4th string goalie is a bit of a problem, but that will correct itself.

I believe the biggest problem is 5v5 scoring at the moment, in particular the Matthews/Marner line. Pacing for 31 goals this year, compared to 81 last year. If we don't get that situation fixed, the rest is irrelevant.

I think the 5-on-5 scoring will fix itself quicker than the sloppy play, which is why I have them the other way. Agreed that both are a bigger problem than our goaltending.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

There are only 5 teams in the NHL with more points than Toronto right now. There are a lot of underachieving squads right now. Tampa and Florida probably aren't going to fire their coach. The Leafs have played 8 of 16 games with Erik Kallgren in net, their 3rd string goaltender. The ugly losses to bottom feeders San Jose, Arizona and Anaheim were all Kallgren starts.

Murray might be good to go now, they've managed to keep in the mix without him, let's see how they do with him.

The big guns are carrying the load on offense, only really waiting on Matthews to hit his stride. They've found a solid 4th line (ZAR-Kampf-Malgin). The young guys are every day players (Sandin-Liljegren-Robertson-Malgin). They lost some physicality from the loss of Muzzin but his absense allows them cap flexibility, they would have had to move somebody at full health, now they can keep that player. It also allows them to utilize a 23 man roster, where they help to make up for the loss of grit from Muzzin's departure with 3 throw back players (Clifford-Simmonds-Benn).

There are reasons for optimism.

Kallgren wasn't the reason they lost those games to ari, san jose and anaheim

 

[ToneDog]

There are only 5 teams in the NHL with more points than Toronto right now. There are a lot of underachieving squads right now. Tampa and Florida probably aren't going to fire their coach. The Leafs have played 8 of 16 games with Erik Kallgren in net, their 3rd string goaltender. The ugly losses to bottom feeders San Jose, Arizona and Anaheim were all Kallgren starts.

Murray might be good to go now, they've managed to keep in the mix without him, let's see how they do with him.

The big guns are carrying the load on offense, only really waiting on Matthews to hit his stride. They've found a solid 4th line (ZAR-Kampf-Malgin). The young guys are every day players (Sandin-Liljegren-Robertson-Malgin). They lost some physicality from the loss of Muzzin but his absense allows them cap flexibility, they would have had to move somebody at full health, now they can keep that player. It also allows them to utilize a 23 man roster, where they help to make up for the loss of grit from Muzzin's departure with 3 throw back players (Clifford-Simmonds-Benn).

There are reasons for optimism.

The D and G have been able to keep us in games but I have no confidence in this D core come playoff time. Softer without Muzz and Boosh. Our LW also concerns me. Come playoff time, teams will be toying with our smurfs. Anybody who knows hockey can see this coming from a mile away.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The problem with firing Keefe is that beyond sitting Lilly in last year's playoffs, I haven't really seen him making mistakes.

The players just aren't performing and producing, there's not a lot to it. This roster on paper should be good enough to be right up with the best.

Matthews looks like a shadow of last year offensively and defensively.

Marner has glimspes of greatness but almost never has an impact comparable to players like Kucherov or Pastrnak.

Rielly is a workhorse but he should not be our best D. 2 of our direct competitors each have 2 defencemen that are better (Boston and Tampa).

Goaltending looked good with Samsanov but still...can we consider it better than any of the best East teams? Maybe Carolina?



So you fire Keefe, and then what? It still comes back to a flawed roster that is underachieving.

Keefe has made so many mistakes. If you go back and look at the CBS play-in series there's a whole slew of errors there.

I think I could casually say that this whole time he's been behind the bench that he hasn't done a whole lot to say that he's a "good coach".

That being said he won't be fired any time soon. If he gets canned then the survival of Dubas/Shanny's job comes into question. They won't do it even if they feel like doing it.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Keefe has made so many mistakes. If you go back and look at the CBS play-in series there's a whole slew of errors there.

I think I could casually say that this whole time he's been behind the bench that he hasn't done a whole lot to say that he's a "good coach".

That being said he won't be fired any time soon. If he gets canned then the survival of Dubas/Shanny's job comes into question. They won't do it even if they feel like doing it.

What are the errors? Let's look at, say, 5?

 

[Jojalu]

Kallgren wasn't the reason they lost those games to ari, san jose and anaheim

He wasn't the sole reason but he didn't help

 

[Fogelhund]

I think the 5-on-5 scoring will fix itself quicker than the sloppy play, which is why I have them the other way. Agreed that both are a bigger problem than our goaltending.

Technically you are right... and yet, here we are.

 

[rocketman588]

Keefe has made so many mistakes. If you go back and look at the CBS play-in series there's a whole slew of errors there.

I think I could casually say that this whole time he's been behind the bench that he hasn't done a whole lot to say that he's a "good coach".

That being said he won't be fired any time soon. If he gets canned then the survival of Dubas/Shanny's job comes into question. They won't do it even if they feel like doing it.

We don't have a plan B play style wise

We switch lines but only change how we play occasionally (ex: game one Tampa)

He also seems to have very little control. I still think game 4 last year they were out partying or something ( Vegas as well)


They were f***ing trash

 

[notDatsyuk]

Technically you are right... and yet, here we are.

I'm not sure about 'technically'. Just slightly different opinions.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

What are the errors? Let's look at, say, 5?

How many games in a row did Keefe play Joe Thornton on the top line?

 

[Dekes For Days]

How many games in a row did Keefe play Joe Thornton on the top line?

Not very many, and not only was it the regular season, but the three together actually did quite well - 63% xGF% and 72% GF%.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Not very many, and not only was it the regular season, but the three together actually did quite well - 63% xGF% and 72% GF%.

Well my opinion is unchanged when it comes to Keefe: I don't think he's a good coach, but I doubt he's going to get fired any time soon.

 

[IPS]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

 

[GoonieFace]

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

He is literally the only coach he has ever hired, he doesn’t know better. This franchise is embarrassing

 

[sxvnert]

Of course Dubas waits until he has a few wins under his belt to approach the media. Spineless!

This is Dubas accountability at its finest. Keefe has clearly been a terrible coach this year but instead of just a simple "He knows he needs to be better" he has to defend him in the media.

Dubas built this disaster.

 

[Jojalu]

He is literally the only coach he has ever hired, he doesn’t know better. This franchise is embarrassing

This is a serious question.

Do you believe Keefe is winning in spite of himself? I am only asking because it is pretty hard to have such a high winning percentage when you suck as a coach and the team you have is terrible, which you seemingly believe both to be true.