I'd give Keefe till the 20 game mark

[GoonieFace]

I would hope to God that 1 playoff series win wouldn't keep everyone employed.

How would people feel about Dubas/Keefe if they made it to the semi-finals? Are they safe then?

For most of here it seems winning a playoff round is comparable to winning the cup

 

[centipede2233]

This years leaf’s remind me of last years leaf’s, and last years leaf’s reminded me of the previous seasons leafs and the previous….it’s been Groundhog Day in leaf nation for 18 yrs.

 

[keonsbitterness]

That’s even worse…….they fired a coach and placed an interim then replaced him. That’s 3 coaches and we are still on Keefe…….lol

Not really. Quenneville (hired by Florida prior to 19-20) would likely still be their coach if not for his attachment to the Chicago scandal.

 

[egd27]

clearly no one is grabbing the point ... so all teams with a sub .600 should fire the coach
lets all wait for gallant to be fired and hire him instead

We understand your point. It's just not a very good one.

 

[egd27]

Free fall

7th overall, 2nd in the division

Guess we only use point percentage when it's convenient?

 

[ITM]

I get it.

And listen, I've been very measured in my analyses of the team my entire time at HFboards; Half glass full, straddling nuanced positions to see the potential best case scenarios under pressure situations.

But we lost the night before, walked a fine line last night and haven't played at our middling best. And the fact that such an objective source of inspiration like Borje Salming's return didn't really translate on the ice, screams impairment.

What that impairment is, whether the coach, the core, pieces in the room unbeknownst to the public as anchors to the core, seems closer to a known quantity rather than a guess.

I think the Swedes looked industrious, especially Jarnkrok, but..."The Passion That Unites Us All"?

What passion unites us all these days?

Borje Salming compromised to the limits of human endurance as he suffers the waking nightmare of ALS, breaking down (Borje Salming breaking down in public?) in public at the outpouring of love, arms supported by a weeping Darryl Sittler...and with our "firepower", we go 1-1 with 6 goals against and 4 goals for against the Penguins and the Canucks!?

LIke...Something is definitely rotten in LeafsNation.

Edited to say: Shoutout to Al Secord for the lols.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

If you look at the standings:

MTL are only 2 points behind us...

::Cold water splashed in your face::

 

[rocketman588]

If you look at the standings:

MTL are only 2 points behind us...

::Cold water splashed in your face::

They'll end up hitting a wall but that's a team that has below average talent but gives a f***.

Shocking what that can do for you in the standings/ with a fan base

 

[Pebble live]

They'll end up hitting a wall but that's a team that has below average talent but gives a f***.

Shocking what that can do for you in the standings/ with a fan base

Hard working teams will always be in the fight. Late 90's and early 2000's leaf teams under Pat Quinn had the fight. Not much skill, but Quinn got the best out of the guys who were willing to work hard.

I enjoy watching the high end skill but I enjoy hard nosed hard working hockey more.

 

[Stephen]

This years leaf’s remind me of last years leaf’s, and last years leaf’s reminded me of the previous seasons leafs and the previous….it’s been Groundhog Day in leaf nation for 18 yrs.

This version of the Leafs reminds me most of the 2019-20 Leafs. When they had the hot start in camp, Barrie scored that amazing goal in the final pre-season game and it looked like we'd shoot out the lights in the NHL. That regular season we couldn't really get anything going, couldn't build on positive momentum and eventually Babcock was let go.

 

[Stephen]

Hard working teams will always be in the fight. Late 90's and early 2000's leaf teams under Pat Quinn had the fight. Not much skill, but Quinn got the best out of the guys who were willing to work hard.

I enjoy watching the high end skill but I enjoy hard nosed hard working hockey more.

The 1998-99 Pat Quinn team actually had a lot of unexpected skill and speed. But they underwent the transformation to get heavier and grindier and older around 2000 when they brought on Corson, Tucker and Roberts to match up with the beasts in the east.

 

[Pebble live]

The 1998-99 Pat Quinn team actually had a lot of unexpected skill and speed. But they underwent the transformation to get heavier and grindier and older around 2000 when they brought on Corson, Tucker and Roberts to match up with the beasts in the east.

True and I can't deny moving some of that skill was painful to watch at first. But those leafs teams were hard to play against and fun to watch.

 

[Stephen]

True and I can't deny moving some of that skill was painful to watch at first. But those leafs teams were hard to play against and fun to watch.

It always comes back to a balanced roster to some degree. We had Sundin, rookie Kaberle, Thomas, Sullivan, Derek King, Johnson, Modin, Berezin, Perreault, Warriner and McCauley which wasn't comparable to the Big 4 at all, but there was a mix of size, speed, sandpaper, scoring, untapped offensive ability. But we also had the other defensive ingredients like Markov, Yushkevich, Karpovtsev and Garry Valk. And an All-Star in net.

There were multiple ways that team could win. They ended up shutting Philadelphia's offense down completely in the first round. The Pens series was more high flying.

 

[centipede2233]

This version of the Leafs reminds me most of the 2019-20 Leafs. When they had the hot start in camp, Barrie scored that amazing goal in the final pre-season game and it looked like we'd shoot out the lights in the NHL. That regular season we couldn't really get anything going, couldn't build on positive momentum and eventually Babcock was let go.

Yeah, I see this year repeating 2019/20 as well. Because when covid hit, Toronto was barely hanging on to a playoff spot.

 

[thewave]

I would hope to God that 1 playoff series win wouldn't keep everyone employed.

How would people feel about Dubas/Keefe if they made it to the semi-finals? Are they safe then?

Winning the first rounds is passing the tests? I get it, it's like the Dubas metric.

 

[thewave]

I get it.

And listen, I've been very measured in my analyses of the team my entire time at HFboards; Half glass full, straddling nuanced positions to see the potential best case scenarios under pressure situations.

But we lost the night before, walked a fine line last night and haven't played at our middling best. And the fact that such an objective source of inspiration like Borje Salming's return didn't really translate on the ice, screams impairment.

What that impairment is, whether the coach, the core, pieces in the room unbeknownst to the public as anchors to the core, seems closer to a known quantity rather than a guess.

I think the Swedes looked industrious, especially Jarnkrok, but..."The Passion That Unites Us All"?

What passion unites us all these days?

Borje Salming compromised to the limits of human endurance as he suffers the waking nightmare of ALS, breaking down (Borje Salming breaking down in public?) in public at the outpouring of love, arms supported by a weeping Darryl Sittler...and with our "firepower", we go 1-1 with 6 goals against and 4 goals for against the Penguins and the Canucks!?

LIke...Something is definitely rotten in LeafsNation.

Edited to say: Shoutout to Al Secord for the lols.

Always appreciated your measured and professional approach to posting here. It would have been fun if you took off the gloves and started throwing truth bombs when Dubas became GM. What a forum battle that's been, probably wasted way too much time in the process.

Go Leafs Go!

 

[Leafsfan74]

The 1998-99 Pat Quinn team actually had a lot of unexpected skill and speed. But they underwent the transformation to get heavier and grindier and older around 2000 when they brought on Corson, Tucker and Roberts to match up with the beasts in the east.

This is what some of us have been wanting this team to do for awhile. In the end, the top end contracts, as predicted when signed; hamper cap mobility. The pandemic made it far worse.

They need 3rd and 4th lines to maintain a physical, competitive presence in the cycle with a net drive, even if slightly slower. Teams D today collapse and stop the Leafs rush and then counter. I saw some signs of a cycle game last night, it was solid. For the record, GMs won't just hand the Leafs such players.

The Leafs didn't have to deal with a cap in Quinns era and every deadline day felt like Christmas morning. It isn't the same now and I fear that Dubas signed certain players due to familiarity to ensure the Leafs could ice a full team rather than moving on from some who might never prove successful.

With cap restrictions its difficult for everyone, but as a GM you have to find a way. Maybe Nies will be ready? That's big ask. I'd still like to see games with a healthy Clifford and Simmons, they are old school enough to give other teams headaches and they don't shy from the front of the net.

If all else fails, build the fortress in the back end and accept that winning games 3-2 and 2-1 prepares you for the playoffs. If Leafs are fortunate, they accumulate some much needed cap space on LTIR and find some heavy forwards. This need hasn't changed since Babcock was here (he was right about "heavy" play).

 

[Zybalto]

This version of the Leafs reminds me most of the 2019-20 Leafs. When they had the hot start in camp, Barrie scored that amazing goal in the final pre-season game and it looked like we'd shoot out the lights in the NHL. That regular season we couldn't really get anything going, couldn't build on positive momentum and eventually Babcock was let go.

This year's Leafs:

8-5-3 (Tied for 12th in the NHL)

7th in the NHL for xGF%

2 of the top 4 D out for most of the season and paying 4th string goalie the last 3rd. Our best player having a poor shooting% to start the year leading to a super low PDO when compared with xGF%. The team has been playing better than their record.



Babcocks last year till he was fired :

9-10-4 (25th in the NHL)

24th in the NHL for xGF%

They are pretty much who they were. Even had a higher PDO than this team too with those stats.

Once Marner got hurt and Andersen couldn't stay hot, the team went into a tailspin costing Babs his job. He never had great run of play numbers due to terrible defensive numbers which completely turned around under Keefe (and have been amazing ever since including this season)


Statistically, there is very little similarity between the two teams. Could this team crash like that one? Anything possible.....but all the indicators say it's more probable they move into the top 10 soon, especially if they get healthy quickly.

Keefe remains the coach with the highest winning% of the modern era despite below average goaltending (also the main cause of the teams playoff misfortunes). I'm intrigued to see how the new guys fare in the playoffs as the pressure just cooked Andersen and Campbell (which is why we moved on right?)

If they go 1-5-1 to match Babs record that year, I can see a change though for sure. It's certainly a little sketchy around here.......but Keefe being let go would probably hurt the team more than anyone realizes.

The Sun letting Simmons go would probably have a more positive effect on the team IMO.

 

[Stephen]

This is what some of us have been wanting this team to do for awhile. In the end, the top end contracts, as predicted when signed; hamper cap mobility. The pandemic made it far worse.

They need 3rd and 4th lines to maintain a physical, competitive competiitve presence in the cycle with a net drive, even if slightly slower. Teams D today collapse and stop the Leafs rush and then counter. I saw some signs of a cycle game last night, it was solid. For the record, GMs won't just hand the Leafs such players.

The Leafs didn't have to deal with a cap in Quinns era and every deadline day felt like Christmas morning. It isn't the same now and I fear that Dubas signed certain players due to familiarity to ensure the Leafs could ice a full team rather than moving on from some who might never prove successful.

With cap restrictions its difficult for everyone, but as a GM you have to find a way. Maybe Nies will be ready? That's big ask. I'd still like to see games with a healthy Clifford and Simmons, they are old school enough to give other teams headaches and they don't shy from the front of the net.

If all else fails, build the fortress in the back end and accept that winning games 3-2 and 2-1 prepares you for the playoffs. If Leafs are fortunate, they accumulate some much needed cap space on LTIR and find some heavy forwards. This need hasn't changed since Babcock was here (he was right about "heavy" play).

This is why I think the offseason was such a disappointment. We have the unique skill at the top of the pyramid, and whatever you think of them, they need the support of a diverse, versatile supporting cast that includes some of the unpopular Burkism's. Hate Brian Burke and his regime all you want but it doesn't have to be a referendum on very typical player types that every NHL team employs.

 

[Stephen]

This year's Leafs:

8-5-3 (Tied for 12th in the NHL)

7th in the NHL for xGF%

2 of the top 4 D out for most of the season and paying 4th string goalie the last 3rd. Our best player having a poor shooting% to start the year leading to a super low PDO when compared with xGF%. The team has been playing better than their record.



Babcocks last year till he was fired :

9-10-4 (25th in the NHL)

24th in the NHL for xGF%

They are pretty much who they were. Even had a higher PDO than this team too with those stats.

Once Marner got hurt and Andersen couldn't stay hot, the team went into a tailspin costing Babs his job. He never had great run of play numbers due to terrible defensive numbers which completely turned around under Keefe (and have been amazing ever since including this season)


Statistically, there is very little similarity between the two teams. Could this team crash like that one? Anything possible.....but all the indicators say it's more probable they move into the top 10 soon, especially if they get healthy quickly.

Keefe remains the coach with the highest winning% of the modern era despite below average goaltending (also the main cause of the teams playoff misfortunes). I'm intrigued to see how the new guys fare in the playoffs as the pressure just cooked Andersen and Campbell (which is why we moved on right?)

If they go 1-5-1 to match Babs record that year, I can see a change though for sure. It's certainly a little sketchy around here.......but Keefe being let go would probably hurt the team more than anyone realizes.

The Sun letting Simmons go would probably have a more positive effect on the team IMO.

At the 16 game mark of 2019-20, the Leafs were 8-5-3, exactly where we stand today, so I guess you could say we're an inflexion point where we could 1) keep treading water 2) bottom out 3) hit a winning streak, which I suppose will determine the fate of Keefe. Babcock was fired November 20 at the 23 game mark, so the next two weeks will be important.

2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs Schedule | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest Toronto Maple Leafs Schedule and Results for regular season, playoffs and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[The Podium]

Because we've played the extra game.

Pretty easy to see

Point% corrects for games played

 

[rocketman588]

Hard working teams will always be in the fight. Late 90's and early 2000's leaf teams under Pat Quinn had the fight. Not much skill, but Quinn got the best out of the guys who were willing to work hard.

I enjoy watching the high end skill but I enjoy hard nosed hard working hockey more.

The teams that tend to make runs frequently are those that can put the two together.

You can be skilled and still be hard nosed and hard working.

I'd argue that JT is doing a great job of it this season

 

[rocketman588]

Point% corrects for games played

If one of the 3 teams that have played one less games then us wins the game in hand we're tied with them in points percentage. Because when you play fewer games the points% gets docked the 0.06 ppg that has us ahead by it

That's why looking at the points percentage when there's a bunch of teams with fewer games played on the same pace as us is misleading.


We have also had the 24th toughest schedule in the league so we're tredding water against the bottom of the NHL

 

[The Podium]

If one of the 3 teams that have played one less games then us wins the game in hand we're tied with them in points percentage. Because when you play fewer games the points% gets docked the 0.06 ppg that has us ahead by it

That's why looking at the points percentage when there's a bunch of teams with fewer games played on the same pace as us is misleading.


We have also had the 24th toughest schedule in the league so we're tredding water against the bottom of the NHL

The Leafs literally have the worst record in the league against the bottom 5 teams over the last 2 years and have been in the top 5 total points over the same span. Quality of schedule being easy is actually to a disadvantage for this team.

 

[ULF_55]

I enjoy watching the high end skill but I enjoy hard nosed hard working hockey more.

And of course, that isn't mutually exclusive.

This might be the Leafs biggest issue, are the willing to put in that work, or have they "arrived"?