I'd give Keefe till the 20 game mark

[notDatsyuk]

Just a reminder, Leafs are currently 5th overall in the entire league and this is when they are not playing anywhere near their potential

Just a reminder that this is largely because they have played more game than 23 teams.

By points%, a much more reasonable way to look at it, they are 10th.

 

[meefer]

Just a reminder that this is largely because they have played more game than 23 teams.

By points%, a much more reasonable way to look at it, they are 10th.

Agreed.

But given their start to the year, is this not an indication that their play is improving?

 

[willmma]

Boston doesn't wait around for next year bud. They. make changes like their coaches

Vegas isn't waiting around for next year. They got the best coach in the market

So Boston is great because they fired Bruce Cassidy?

And Vegas is great because they hired Bruce Cassidy?

 

[AvroArrow]

Just a reminder that this is largely because they have played more game than 23 teams.

By points%, a much more reasonable way to look at it, they are 10th.

Fair point, even then 10th isn't a bad spot to be. It could be better, the play could be better, but if when we are playing like shit we are a top 10 team, sky's the limit.

Just saying people shouldn't be freaking out or panicking as bad as they are, I do question some of Keefe's decisions and I also question if he can mentally prepare the guys to start on time. Slow starts are a recurring theme. But a lot of it is also due to more "low event" hockey. The entire team looks better defensively as a unit and even though he's not scoring as he normally does, Matthews is even more engaged physically this year.

I think it's still very very premature to suggest firing Keefe, they are in a playoff spot and currently top 10. If they fall out of the playoff race or once again fail in the 1st, full overhaul with management/coaching, but we aren't as bad as some people are making it seem. We are in the top 10 right now.

 

[GoonieFace]

Just a reminder, Leafs are currently 5th overall in the entire league and this is when they are not playing anywhere near their potential

You can probably find a post like this for every season the past 5 years, that is all

 

[fahad203]

So Boston is great because they fired Bruce Cassidy?

And Vegas is great because they hired Bruce Cassidy?

Neither. Both of these teams expect to get results. They don't have an emotional attachment and not afraid to make changes.

Cassidy time at Boston had come. Vegas wanted a coach that had some playoff success

 

[AvroArrow]

You can probably find a post like this for every season the past 5 years, that is all

So the coach has been the problem for 5 years ?

 

[willmma]

Neither. Both of these teams expect to get results. They don't have an emotional attachment and not afraid to make changes.

Cassidy time at Boston had come. Vegas wanted a coach that had some playoff success

Keefe has been coach since 2019. 3 years and this is his fourth. I don't know if I would call that "an emotional attachment"

Jared Bednar on the other hand has been coach since 2016. He didn't win anything anything in five years. And despite "the emotional attachment" and the need being "afraid to make a change" the Avs won a cup in the following year.


Strange how that works, no?

 

[snipes29]

Just because every year is unique doesn't mean the circumstances will be. This is essentially the same core that hasn't gotten done, with same coaching staff.

Our D is looking better compare our D, not compare to the league standards. Every team and their fans tend to live in their own bubble. What was our bread and butter was scoring and speed. Those two are gone, our depth is gone. Slight improvement in D wont' make up for that. Our D looks good for a bit then it gets pummled in the playoffs. We had a lot of good Corsi numbers last year too, meant jack in the playoffs

Just because fans wants some changes, doesn't mean they want the team to plummet. They do want to see some significant changes. They are not mutually exclusive. You can make changes without plummeting

If every year was unique no team would make changes. They would just wait for the year to be over so they can start fresh with the same player and stay the course. Stick to the game plan.

Heck last year we apparently broke our own record for most point. We actually looked like a threat game in game out. And we couldn't win a playoff round

There are new challengers out there. I know you watch other teams, you are more equipped to make that judgement.

Boston doesn't wait around for next year bud. They. make changes like their coaches

Vegas isn't waiting around for next year. They got the best coach in the market

Funny enough, those two teams are leading their respective conferences in wins as of today

This team simply doesn't pass the eye test. Despite of corsi numbers. Those who watched enough hockey know what a good team looks like, this does not look like a good team

Asshole Keefe not playing Robertson again what a joke for a coach out coached 3 straight playoffs round one losses to lesser teams! Joke of a coachcant wait till they fire him

 

[Menzinger]

Neither. Both of these teams expect to get results. They don't have an emotional attachment and not afraid to make changes.

Cassidy time at Boston had come. Vegas wanted a coach that had some playoff success

That's fair to say BUT I don't think it's coaching that's causing Matthews and Marner to have been underwhelming for parts this season.

I've personally got mixed feelings towards Keefe. Like some things, dislike others (ie mismanaging Robertson).

But imo keeping the coach is the biggest signal management can send to the core that their futures with the team are in their own hands.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Goal differential should be the telling thing here.

We don't seem to be elite yet.

 

[BayStBullies]

I find after 20 games that this team is destined to lose in the first round. The coach can't win a coaching battle. Another wasted year, wake up Shanny.

Keefe has been coach since 2019. 3 years and this is his fourth. I don't know if I would call that "an emotional attachment"

Jared Bednar on the other hand has been coach since 2016. He didn't win anything anything in five years. And despite "the emotional attachment" and the need being "afraid to make a change" the Avs won a cup in the following year.


Strange how that works, no?

They made the second round the 3 years prior. What are you even going on about? They won a playoff series each of those years and then a Stanley cup. Keefe has not won a single series.

 

[makbeer]

At least we don't have Jack Campbell.

 

[geo25]

Just because every year is unique doesn't mean the circumstances will be. This is essentially the same core that hasn't gotten done, with same coaching staff.

Our D is looking better compare our D, not compare to the league standards. Every team and their fans tend to live in their own bubble. What was our bread and butter was scoring and speed. Those two are gone, our depth is gone. Slight improvement in D wont' make up for that. Our D looks good for a bit then it gets pummled in the playoffs. We had a lot of good Corsi numbers last year too, meant jack in the playoffs

Just because fans wants some changes, doesn't mean they want the team to plummet. They do want to see some significant changes. They are not mutually exclusive. You can make changes without plummeting

If every year was unique no team would make changes. They would just wait for the year to be over so they can start fresh with the same player and stay the course. Stick to the game plan.

Heck last year we apparently broke our own record for most point. We actually looked like a threat game in game out. And we couldn't win a playoff round

There are new challengers out there. I know you watch other teams, you are more equipped to make that judgement.

Boston doesn't wait around for next year bud. They. make changes like their coaches

Vegas isn't waiting around for next year. They got the best coach in the market

Funny enough, those two teams are leading their respective conferences in wins as of today

This team simply doesn't pass the eye test. Despite of corsi numbers. Those who watched enough hockey know what a good team looks like, this does not look like a good team

Solid observations. Changes are needed ....starting from the top on down. We should be proactive for once.....

Just a reminder, Leafs are currently 5th overall in the entire league and this is when they are not playing anywhere near their potential

Their potential is not enough.

 

[Nineteen67]

Just a reminder, Leafs are currently 5th overall in the entire league and this is when they are not playing anywhere near their potential

They might just be playing to their potential

So Boston is great because they fired Bruce Cassidy?

And Vegas is great because they hired Bruce Cassidy?

Sounds odd, but coaches do seem to have a shelf life.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

You have 10 wins from first 20 games of the season, not good enough i would say.

Cant go past 1st round with .500 hockey.

One can look at it how one wants, but during the play-offs only the wins matter.

100% you should fire some staff, coaching and management.

 

[DarkKnight]

Goal differential should be the telling thing here.

We don't seem to be elite yet.

5 v 5 we’re a minus, not good at all for a supposed cup contender.

Just a reminder, Leafs are currently 5th overall in the entire league and this is when they are not playing anywhere near their potential

So you’re saying the coach isn’t getting the best out of them, interesting.

 

[AvroArrow]

This team can't play 3 on 3 for the life of them. Back to back games we just turn the puck over without pressure leading to the gwg. How much higher in the standings would we be if they weren't so shit at OT hockey

 

[willmma]

I find after 20 games that this team is destined to lose in the first round. The coach can't win a coaching battle. Another wasted year, wake up Shanny.


They made the second round the 3 years prior. What are you even going on about? They won a playoff series each of those years and then a Stanley cup. Keefe has not won a single series.

For a team that has won playoff rounds, winning playoff rounds is not the benchmark for success. They were probably looking to win the cup.

I'm just saying that arguments like "emotional attachment " and "too scared to make a change " don't make sense.

 

[fahad203]

For a team that has won playoff rounds, winning playoff rounds is not the benchmark for success. They were probably looking to win the cup.

I'm just saying that arguments like "emotional attachment " and "too scared to make a change " don't make sense.

WHen you lose 3-1 series lead to your bitter rival
Losing to a zamboni driver
Being 0-5 in closing games
Losing to columbus who couldn't score playing 5 games at ScotiaBank (your own rink)

And still not being fired... It's an emotional attachment
Considering there were so many good coaches available past 2 years

Gallant, Trotz, Cassidy..... You only kept Keefe around because Dubas is emotionally attached to his buddy. Only coach Dubas ever hired....

 

[ToneDog]

WHen you lose 3-1 series lead to your bitter rival
Losing to a zamboni driver
Being 0-5 in closing games
Losing to columbus who couldn't score playing 5 games at ScotiaBank (your own rink)

And still not being fired... It's an emotional attachment
Considering there were so many good coaches available past 2 years

Gallant, Trotz, Cassidy..... You only kept Keefe around because Dubas is emotionally attached to his buddy. Only coach Dubas ever hired....

0-9 (Boston 1, Boston 2, Columbus 1, Montreal 3, Tampa 2)

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

This team can't play 3 on 3 for the life of them. Back to back games we just turn the puck over without pressure leading to the gwg. How much higher in the standings would we be if they weren't so shit at OT hockey

That's on coaching

 

[ACC1224]

Has it been 20 games yet?

 

[egd27]

Keefe has been coach since 2019. 3 years and this is his fourth. I don't know if I would call that "an emotional attachment"

Jared Bednar on the other hand has been coach since 2016. He didn't win anything anything in five years. And despite "the emotional attachment" and the need being "afraid to make a change" the Avs won a cup in the following year.


Strange how that works, no?

He has been the GM's coaching choice for 10 years with 3 different teams. I would conclude that's pretty "attached"

 

[Anthrax442]

Raptors fired Coach of the year. Its not unprecedented