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Hyman Discussion Thread

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Dreakmur said:
He’s not a skill player. If you expect him to make skilled plays, you’ll be disappointed.

I would suggest you watch how many times he’s the guy who gets the puck for that line.
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Oh, I have. He gets it then he loses it A LOT. That's the point. He's even bad at digging pucks out of the corners AND standing in the crease (due to his terrible hands). His problem is that the first line just moves too fast for him to think fast enough. Now don't get me wrong he's an ok third or fourth liner and Pk'er but he's so out of place on the top line or PP it's remarkable that he's lasted this long.
 
DuklaNation said:
If that is true, then dump his ass. You have a pattern of players demanding too much here. Dubas is not a cut throat businessman. Neither is Shanny. Change is needed now. These guys are acting like spoiled brats. Make the connection.
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It’s not that Hyman is being a brat. He’s been underpaid for his entire prime here in Toronto and has given us nothing but blood and sweat. But clearly we don’t have room to give him a massive raise so you have to let him go for the long term cap health of the team. Factor in age and play style, it doesn’t make sense.
 
JT AM da real deal said:
Coleman Goodrow and Paul on a new 3rd line would be great adds .. all fast all big all super strong on puck and man .. but it would require playing different systems with different lines .. puck possession hockey may work for 1-2 lines but not other 1-2 lines .. other teams can adopt but not sure our current GM/coach have it in them
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Short of a massive overpayment, what's the incentive for them to move him? Good player.
 
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WTFMAN99 said:
Agreed on all accounts.

We've seen Dubas run this thing long enough, it is very flawed.
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I just don’t get the process at all. Let’s say the original small guy late round pick that was a smash hit was Andreas Johnsson. And he was maybe an upper end third liner at his peak here. Why are we churning out so many small guys who can be Andreas Johnsson and not addressing player types who could eventually fill Hyman type roles which are a higher value on the roster? These guys will never supplant the Big 4 in those roles so why over supply them on the depth chart. So we need to be building players who support the Big 4 and compliment their abilities. Frankly it’s a bad succession plan anyone could see from years out.
 
TBH I'm going to be gutted if Hyman leaves. But if he wants 6 million and term, he can go elsewhere. He turns 29 this year and I would be nervous about a quick decline in a couple of seasons. Hymans playing style and injury history do not bode well for the long term.
 
Stephen said:
I just don’t get the process at all. Let’s say the original small guy late round pick that was a smash hit was Andreas Johnsson. And he was maybe an upper end third liner at his peak here. Why are we churning out so many small guys who can be Andreas Johnsson and not addressing player types who could eventually fill Hyman type roles which are a higher value on the roster? These guys will never supplant the Big 4 in those roles so why over supply them on the depth chart. So we need to be building players who support the Big 4 and compliment their abilities. Frankly it’s a bad succession plan anyone could see from years out.
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I think the plan was you could always find cheap bangers in UFA but the *good* 2-way gritty types like Foligno, Coleman etc...teams see the value in them so they cost a lot more to acquire than I think he suspected.
 
WTFMAN99 said:
I think the plan was you could always find cheap bangers in UFA but the *good* 2-way gritty types like Foligno, Coleman etc...teams see the value in them so they cost a lot more to acquire than I think he suspected.
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Those quality bangers exist throughout the league and often come from the same few organizations who value and build them. So it’s up to pro scouting to go Moneyball it up and find some prime aged value this summer. Otherwise I could see the Leafs taking a few steps back in the standings of a few things don’t line up right and potentially missing the playoffs for 2022.
 
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Stephen said:
Those quality bangers exist throughout the league and often come from the same few organizations who value and build them. So it’s up to pro scouting to go Moneyball it up and find some prime aged value this summer. Otherwise I could see the Leafs taking a few steps back in the standings of a few things don’t line up right and potentially missing the playoffs for 2022.
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I had a capfriendly that removed;

Soup, Dermott,
Kerfoot (expansion)

Saad (5M x 3-4 years) - Matthews -88
Robertson/Galchenyuk (if Galchenyuk would take 1x1) - JT-Marner
Goodrow (2M x 3-4 yrs) - Engvall - Coleman (3-3.5M x 4 yrs)
Brooks - Spezza (750k x1) - Perry (750k x1)
Extra forward for 750k

It did keep the core 4 together like they proclaimed they wanted to do but I felt the roster was more rounded but I would prefer to see what Marner could return, get a more elite 3C along with getting 2 wingers for the top 6 - buys Robertson time.
 
As soon as he mentioned his agents name in his post presser -I figured he is gonzo … Not in the Leaf current culture to take a discount anyway.
 
forecheck said:
As soon as he mentioned his agents name in his post presser -I figured he is gonzo … Not in the Leaf current culture to take a discount anyway.
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Nor should it be. On the front office to do a better job in negotiations. Definitely Dubas's biggest weakness. Should have been in on the Big 3 a year before they hit FA, even if it felt like he was buying a bit high at the time, it'd be a bit of money saved compared to what they signed for.
 
WTFMAN99 said:
Short of a massive overpayment, what's the incentive for them to move him? Good player.
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I was just dreaming there but it is type of kid young big fast strong and solid hockey IQ we need as 3C to compliment our team .. but he is DJ's guy now and you are right there is not a chance he leaves unless DJ leaves
 
If its really true that the Leafs offered him 5 million a year and he said no then yeah its time to say goodbye. I wasn't a big fan of Hyman when we first traded for him and he didn't seem to have much offensive upside, but over time I've come to appreciate his heart and determination on the ice and he was able to increase his point production as well and now I really like him.

But at MORE than 5 million a year? Yeah that's WAYYY too much. 5 million x 4 years is what I would prefer at most. Anything more than that and unfortunately its time to part ways. If he were putting up a consistent 60 pts playing with our best players that would be a different story, but man far too often I've yelled out in frustration seeing Hyman not convert on a good scoring chance. Sad to see him go, but its better in the long run for the team.
 
mydnyte said:
didnt we acquire Joey Anderson as basically a slightly smaller Hyman clone?
we need to start integrating our youth into the lineup and giving them both a chance to play, and us the cap savings.
this is also the model Chicago used when they were winning and cap strapped, they would develop youngsters and trade them for more youth, and keep a rotating door of young talent around their core stars.
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Chicago won cups with Toews and Kane on ELCs, and had a massively cap circumvented contract on Duncan Keith. No comparison to them and no way can we follow in their footsteps
 
If Dubas actually offered him $5 M then Dubas is a fake analytics GM (which after last summer's signings I thought he was anyways). Analytics is largely about finding value....where exactly is Dubas seeing value here?

$5 M is a luxury on that type of player and when you just tied up $40 M on four forwards and are in cap hell which the Leafs are then how can you even offer $5 M to Hyman!? (unless he has a trade in the works to move Marner and free up a bunch of space which I doubt).
 
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We all love Hyman but giving a guy with his skillset and age over $6 million long-term is a recipe for disaster. When his body slows down he is going to lose all his effectiveness. He's also had multiple knee injuries over the last few years which might make that happen quicker than expected. Hes not a cerebral player like Spezza who will be effective when he can't skate as well.
 
Man, I'd be fine giving him 5m, but more than that is getting silly. He's a great player, he's the fixer for our lines and plays well in all situations. He's been getting better with age as he figures out how to use his size, speed, strength, and work ethic to take the puck to high danger scoring chance areas. He's a player that we want to clone instead of lose.

But ffs if he wants more than 5m I don't see how we keep him. For all the nice things that I just wrote about him, there's a ceiling to that kind of value and I'm sure it's right around the 5m mark. If he's looking for 6m or 7m then a) idk wtf he's thinking and b) see you later bro. It really sucks to lose a high value asset like him to greed, but I guess that's just what the Maple Leafs are these days.
 
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