Hyman Discussion Thread

[Stephen]

Right, we're still drafting sub-six footers that are basically top-six or bust, but we have 16/34/88/91 locked into our top-six so there's no room. This leaves us paying 1st round picks for Foligno and even when we do have one, we trade him for the ultimate top-six or bust fringe NHL'er, Denis Malgin. I don't know what this management doesn't understand about there being only six spots in the top-six and five spots on the powerplay, but they needed to figure it out years ago.

We have no issues signing guys like Spezza or picking up Galchenyuk off waivers every year. The league is lousy with guys like that, so the cost to acquire them is negligible. Meanwhile, the Foligno/Coleman/Goodrow types cost a first round pick because they're in short supply. We need to draft the gritty guys because not only do we actually need them, but their resale value is high if we run a surplus. Nobody wants a Johnsson or Malgin or Galchenyuk because they're everywhere, yet we mostly draft guys that will at best turn into them. Just baffling.

Mason Marchment would be pretty versatile right about now.

 

[Stephen]

I love Hyman but I’ll take 2 Connor Brown’s for that. Again, it’s about balance.
And balance works here as well.
This is your lower level balance.

Maybe we can get Connor Brown back at some point.

 

[Stephen]

I think we save our cap to keep Morgan Rielly and let Hyman walk.

 

[Amadeus]

Love Hyman - my favorite Leaf, but in the end it is a business. If he doesn't re-sign for 4, I say we let him walk.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Leafs' bid to re-sign Hyman will require creativity as major payday awaits - Sportsnet.ca

Hyman’s next contract will almost certainly be worth more than $5-million per season and come with term, which is why it’s possible the hometown kid has already played his final game for the Leafs. There certainly seemed to be a hint of resignation in his voice when he briefly touched on the subject in the aftermath of the team’s abrupt playoff elimination this week, saying: “I don’t know what the future holds.”

It was a far cry from the way Hyman spoke about his next contract in the early days of the pandemic.

“I would love to stay in Toronto. It’s where I grew up. I want to be a Leaf for a long time. That’s first and foremost,” he told reporters in April 2020. “I would love to be a long-term Leaf and would love to re-sign here and would love to be here and ultimately win a Stanley Cup here.”

While those sentiments haven’t changed, circumstances have. Another year has gone by with little or no progress on an extension in Toronto. And the damage inflicted to overall NHL business by the pandemic has locked the cap ceiling in at a flat $81.5 million.

With the Leafs seemingly unwilling to break up their Big Four — Brendan Shanahan and Kyle Dubas were unequivocal about their plans to keep all $40-million worth of Matthews, John Tavares, Mitch Marner and Nylander moving forward — they are challenged to have any other forwards inhabiting the middle class, let alone the upper-middle class where Hyman’s next deal is likely to fall.

Consider the players purged over the last three off-seasons alone: Andreas Johnsson, Kasperi Kapanen, Nazem Kadri, Connor Brown, James van Riemsdyk and Tyler Bozak. The common denominator is what they were paid or about to be paid.

What sets Hyman apart from that group — at least from everyone but Brown — is that he’s grown up with this core. He’s played more than 61 per cent of his 5-on-5 minutes in the NHL with Matthews. He’s improved his points per game every season and helped set the standard for the group.

This decision is about the heart as well as the mind.

“There’s no bones about the fact that we would be very interested in having him back,” said Dubas. “I think it has to work out fair for both sides. Zach’s going to want to be treated fairly, we’re going to have to figure out something that works in the short and long term and that will be up to [Leafs assistant GM] Brandon Pridham and [agent] Todd Reynolds to sort that out.”

 

[zeke]

I go $5m x4.

Or lower and longer.

 

[ToneDog]

Leafs' bid to re-sign Hyman will require creativity as major payday awaits - Sportsnet.ca

Hyman’s next contract will almost certainly be worth more than $5-million per season and come with term, which is why it’s possible the hometown kid has already played his final game for the Leafs. There certainly seemed to be a hint of resignation in his voice when he briefly touched on the subject in the aftermath of the team’s abrupt playoff elimination this week, saying: “I don’t know what the future holds.”

It was a far cry from the way Hyman spoke about his next contract in the early days of the pandemic.

“I would love to stay in Toronto. It’s where I grew up. I want to be a Leaf for a long time. That’s first and foremost,” he told reporters in April 2020. “I would love to be a long-term Leaf and would love to re-sign here and would love to be here and ultimately win a Stanley Cup here.”

While those sentiments haven’t changed, circumstances have. Another year has gone by with little or no progress on an extension in Toronto. And the damage inflicted to overall NHL business by the pandemic has locked the cap ceiling in at a flat $81.5 million.

With the Leafs seemingly unwilling to break up their Big Four — Brendan Shanahan and Kyle Dubas were unequivocal about their plans to keep all $40-million worth of Matthews, John Tavares, Mitch Marner and Nylander moving forward — they are challenged to have any other forwards inhabiting the middle class, let alone the upper-middle class where Hyman’s next deal is likely to fall.

Consider the players purged over the last three off-seasons alone: Andreas Johnsson, Kasperi Kapanen, Nazem Kadri, Connor Brown, James van Riemsdyk and Tyler Bozak. The common denominator is what they were paid or about to be paid.

What sets Hyman apart from that group — at least from everyone but Brown — is that he’s grown up with this core. He’s played more than 61 per cent of his 5-on-5 minutes in the NHL with Matthews. He’s improved his points per game every season and helped set the standard for the group.

This decision is about the heart as well as the mind.

“There’s no bones about the fact that we would be very interested in having him back,” said Dubas. “I think it has to work out fair for both sides. Zach’s going to want to be treated fairly, we’re going to have to figure out something that works in the short and long term and that will be up to [Leafs assistant GM] Brandon Pridham and [agent] Todd Reynolds to sort that out.”

Hyman will be another victim of the cap. So far it has cost us Brown, Kappy, AJ and will cost us Andy, Hyman and Kerfoot. Thanks Kyle.

 

[ToneDog]

I go $5m x4.

Or lower and longer.

$5m will go a long way this summer wrt UFAs. I'd tread carefully.

 

[zeke]

$5m will go a long way this summer wrt UFAs. I'd tread carefully.

The expansion draft may help us out here actually.

It gives us the excuse to let him go to market while still wanting to re-sign him.

And I'm not sure the market will give Hyman what he's looking for - I'm sure he's eyeing the Gallagher and Anderson deals but rightly or wrongly I'm not sure GMs will value him at that level, at which point he becomes more reasonable.

 

[ToneDog]

The expansion draft may help us out here actually.

It gives us the excuse to let him go to market while still wanting to re-sign him.

And I'm not sure the market will give Hyman what he's looking for - I'm sure he's eyeing the Gallagher and Anderson deals but rightly or wrongly I'm not sure GMs will value him at that level, at which point he becomes more reasonable.

Oilers are pretty desperate and probably think he can help playing with McDavid. Our hope is that he has no desire to move. Even so, can we afford another $5m winger ?? I say no.

 

[Smif]

I just don’t get the process at all. Let’s say the original small guy late round pick that was a smash hit was Andreas Johnsson. And he was maybe an upper end third liner at his peak here. Why are we churning out so many small guys who can be Andreas Johnsson and not addressing player types who could eventually fill Hyman type roles which are a higher value on the roster? These guys will never supplant the Big 4 in those roles so why over supply them on the depth chart. So we need to be building players who support the Big 4 and compliment their abilities. Frankly it’s a bad succession plan anyone could see from years out.

Thing is tho, we didn't draft Hyman either.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

Some cap comparisons

Nino Niederreiter signed a 5 year / $26,250,000 contract with the Minnesota Wild, including $26,250,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $5,250,000. In 2020-1, Niederreiter will earn a base salary of $4,250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $5,250,000.

Contract: 5 yr(s) / $26,250,000

Signing Bonus -

Average Salary$5,250,000

Free Agent:2022 / UFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Alexander Killorn signed a 7 year / $31,150,000 contract with the Tampa Bay Lightning, including $31,150,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $4,450,000. In 2020-1, Killorn will earn a base salary of $4,450,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,450,000.

Contract: 7 yr(s) / $31,150,000

Signing Bonus -

Average Salary$4,450,000

Free Agent:2023 / UFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Alex Tuch signed a 7 year / $33,250,000 contract with the Vegas Golden Knights, including $33,250,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $4,750,000. In 2020-1, Tuch will earn a base salary of $4,750,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,750,000.

Contract: 7 yr(s) / $33,250,000

Signing Bonus -

Average Salary$4,750,000

Free Agent:2026 / UFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[RoadWarrior]

The only team that would possibly give him $5 million is the...... wait for it...

Toronto Maple Leafs.

He must be playing Dubas already. Getting a jump start. Don't worry about it Zach. It's easy to do. A caveman could do it.

At least Hyman actually gives a crap. He earns his $$.

 

[paulhiggins]

Kadri is 100x better than Hyman and at $4.5 Dubas decided he was too expensive.

It wasn't the money. Kadri just wouldn't play the softie game that management insists upon here.

 

[mydnyte]

At least Hyman actually gives a crap. He earns his $$.

people will give a crap for a lot cheaper than Hyman. he is not worth 4 mil, or even 3.5 for that matter. he brings effort and work effort, not an abundance of talent.

 

[RoadWarrior]

people will give a crap for a lot cheaper than Hyman. he is not worth 4 mil, or even 3.5 for that matter. he brings effort and work effort, not an abundance of talent.

He won't be getting more than $5M AAV anyway even on the open market. The big issue with him is term as he's starting to break down physically. Max 3 years IMO.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Assuming we could fill the other gaps in the roster accordingly, I wonder if a 1 year deal at a significant pay bump followed by a long term deal closer to his last AAV would work out better for both sides.

Something like 1 year $7M-7.5M followed by a long term deal @ $2.5M or something.

 

[mydnyte]

He won't be getting more than $5M AAV anyway even on the open market. The big issue with him is term as he's starting to break down physically. Max 3 years IMO.

I'm just tired of seeing him on the top line, because that is keeping our top line from being one of the best in the league on par with the Col/Bos top lines.
Hyman shouldnt have the puck on his stick for more than 2 seconds on that line, and they go full shifts where Hyman has the puck for most of it, and Matthews and Marner just skate around while Hyman plays push and shove against the boards. trying to get back the puck that he put into the corner in the first place.
there will be tons of options under 4 million, or even under 3 million that can be better assets than Hyman.
everyone wanted Bennett and lamented the fact that we didnt get him, and he is likely not getting qualified at his 3.25 and will be a UFA ...him at 3 million or less vs Hyman for 5 ...no contest!! bye bye Hyman. and the extra $$ goes someplace else.

 

[mydnyte]

Assuming we could fill the other gaps in the roster accordingly, I wonder if a 1 year deal at a significant pay bump followed by a long term deal closer to his last AAV would work out better for both sides.

Something like 1 year $7M-7.5M followed by a long term deal @ $2.5M or something.

please say this is a joke, or that you dont mean for Hyman!!
...I'm not willing to pay Reilly $7-$7.5 and you want to give it to a grinder who has been blessed by playing with 2 guys that are infinitely more talented than him his career in Toronto be it any combo of Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander

 

[RoadWarrior]

I'm just tired of seeing him on the top line, because that is keeping our top line from being one of the best in the league on par with the Col/Bos top lines.
Hyman shouldnt have the puck on his stick for more than 2 seconds on that line, and they go full shifts where Hyman has the puck for most of it, and Matthews and Marner just skate around while Hyman plays push and shove against the boards. trying to get back the puck that he put into the corner in the first place.
there will be tons of options under 4 million, or even under 3 million that can be better assets than Hyman.
everyone wanted Bennett and lamented the fact that we didnt get him, and he is likely not getting qualified at his 3.25 and will be a UFA ...him at 3 million or less vs Hyman for 5 ...no contest!! bye bye Hyman. and the extra $$ goes someplace else.

The grass isn't always greener. Hyman wasn't on the first line to score. He was there to retrieve the puck and gain possession which he's done with regularity.

The playoff collapse isn't 100% on the players. Keefe made virtually zero adjustments in the final 3 games of the series.

 

[mydnyte]

The grass isn't always greener. Hyman wasn't on the first line to score. He was there to retrieve the puck and gain possession which he's done with regularity.

The playoff collapse isn't 100% on the players. Keefe made virtually zero adjustments in the final 3 games of the series.

when he is the guy dumping into the corner in the first place, whats he actually retrieving?
He regains the possessions that he gives away with regularity and wastes most of a shift that way, then we see Matthews skate off on another shift that he didnt get a touch.

We lost vs MTL because anytime Marner had the puck Matthews got double teamed, because Hyman really isnt a scoring threat, as he proved over and over, chance after chance, no matter how open he was. ...had we stacked that line, with Nylander instead of Hyman one of Matthews or Nylander would have been open and able to score on those chances.

they got 3 shifts together and looked dominant, but, then back to Hyman, and back into the corner goes the puck.

 

[RoadWarrior]

when he is the guy dumping into the corner in the first place, whats he actually retrieving?
He regains the possessions that he gives away with regularity and wastes most of a shift that way, then we see Matthews skate off on another shift that he didnt get a touch.

We lost vs MTL because anytime Marner had the puck Matthews got double teamed, because Hyman really isnt a scoring threat, as he proved over and over, chance after chance, no matter how open he was. ...had we stacked that line, with Nylander instead of Hyman one of Matthews or Nylander would have been open and able to score on those chances.

they got 3 shifts together and looked dominant, but, then back to Hyman, and back into the corner goes the puck.

Keefe should've absolutely tried some different line combinations. Firstly getting Marner away from Matthews because Marner was just useless and putting Nylander with Matthews and maybe Spezza. That might've had a chance at working.

 

[Smif]

At least Hyman actually gives a crap. He earns his $$.

Still doesn't score in the playoffs though.

 

[Smif]

FYI, Kyle Dubas used to work for Uptown Sports as a player agent under Todd Reynolds.

Hyman's agent, Todd Reynolds. Probably doesn't mean much as Dubas used to be Kyle Clifford's agent, but still, kinda interesting.

 

[mydnyte]

Keefe should've absolutely tried some different line combinations. Firstly getting Marner away from Matthews because Marner was just useless and putting Nylander with Matthews and maybe Spezza. That might've had a chance at working.

Yes, and Yes.
That top line needed a secondary scoring option, regardless of who it was, Spezza, Nylander, heck even Simmonds, or Engvall(who has a pretty good shot, he doesnt use nearly enough) would have at least given Montreal a reason not to double/triple team Matthews, or a better chance to score on the open looks Hyman got.
Marner had a ton of looks, but, sucked ...his best chance in game 7 was when he dragged the puck to the slot, and had the wide open side, shot, and Hyman backed into the slot and blocked the shot with his backside, else, that was in the net.
This is all on Keefe ...you dont put a guy in fron of the net that isnt good at tipping the puck, or at the very least, getting out of the way of your own teammates shots!!
But, in Hyman's defense, he was always facing the wrong way to see the puck coming anyways! ...i guess the real defense of Hyman was Keefe never should have used him in that way, cant blame the player when the coach misuses him.