Hyman Discussion Thread

[Gallagbi]

I doubt it. Have Leaf fans ever gotten tired of paying top dollar?

they make good coin don’t worry. Any good CEO knows that sometimes a ten million investment in the front door can bring 45 + million in the back door.

It's all about the return. At the end of the day this franchise will spend top dollar to compete, so whether that's 10M for a big 4 or 8 guys making $5M a piece, it won't matter.

 

[Dreakmur]

I doubt it. Have Leaf fans ever gotten tired of paying top dollar?

they make good coin don’t worry. Any good CEO knows that sometimes a ten million investment in the front door can bring 45 + million in the back door.

They are willing to pay extra because it should be a competitive advantage. So far, it has not proven to do that.

If there's no advantage to paying more money, why would they keep doing it? Rich people didn't get rich by throwing money away....

 

[frizzer1]

if used properly hyman can be effective.
Hyman has the skill set to be on a crash and bang third line.
Playing with M and M he was wide open because the habs were concentrating on the other 2.
And he couldn’t convert and that killed them.
There is no way he should get more than 3 mil.
So, let him walk.

 

[mydnyte]

Yup, his hustle and effort every game were making the other guys look bad. Don't need our stars being shown up by some work horse.

he shouldnt be playing on the #1 line.
and seriously, he does his own dump and chases, and then cant get the puck to the 'star' players on an even remotely regular basis. he has to work hard, because, thats his skill set.
working hard vs work smart
...but, he wins a lot of puck battles, sure, puck battles that he created in the first place, by dumping the puck in.

He IS our only hard forechecker, and he is great at that aspect (and scores a bunch of junk goals... Since 2018-19 Hyman is 2nd in the league in empty net goals), but, again, he should only be a 3rd line player, and then I'd Love him!

 

[ShaneFalco]

I thought this was pretty accurate with Hyman:

Similar injury concerns apply to Zach Hyman, whose upcoming contract negotiation is another major offseason storyline. He had a monster regular season, continuing to demonstrate his evolution from a super-checker to a legitimate top-of-the-roster forward on any NHL team who can both score and create like a top-six offensive player.
All of that said, he has five points in his last 17 playoff games (two goals). Mostly, I think it’s a byproduct of some combination of various injuries (either playing through them or returning from them just in time for playoffs), a low on-ice shooting percentage, strength of competition, and his more offensively-talented linemates struggling to score (see: the on-ice shooting percentage point).

There is part of me that wonders if Hyman’s peerless motor that is so consistent night after night in the regular season (when not everyone is always going full speed like he is) doesn’t separate or shine quite as bright in the playoffs when everyone is battling at Zach Hyman regular-season levels. I am kind of surprised we didn’t have a few more big Zach Hyman moments in either the Columbus or Montreal series.
But I can’t imagine the team without him, I do think he’s a playoff player through and through, and hopefully, the two sides can work out something reasonable.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/06/04/10-postmortem-thoughts-toronto-maple-leafs/

 

[666]

He's played for two NHL coaches, and they both thought he did....

I suggest that you go back and watch a few random periods and focus on Hyman. If you watch a few random periods you will definitely see how often he is the last guy in the offensive zone to touch the puck before the other team exists their zone. It's actually remarkable if you focus on it. In our house we make a game of it saying thing like "he did it again". This happens A LOT. While you're at it watch how many times he has a clear chance to score and messes it up. We notice things like this early and say things like "oh it's only Hands he'll miss". And lastly, watch for Matthews, Marner and Reilly coming up ice, entering the zone and absolutely ignoring Hands. Those three will almost always look for each other and avoid Hands even if he is by far the more open or likely play. It's not that his role is standing in the crease, these plays happen before that. His teammates know how bad he is. His coaches don't for some reason.

He's so bad it changes how you watch the top line because you know he's going to mess things up.

 

[Brown Dog]

Hyman is a tough one. On the one hand, he has been such a warrior for us and contributes so much. His versatility and tenacity is exactly the kind of thing this roster needs more of, not less.

On the other hand...overpaying him (or really even paying him fair market value) is not even an option if we are keeping the core intact, which clearly seems to be the plan. To sign him at a reasonable cap means loading up on the term, which could be risky business for a guy who is starting to age and may be showing signs of wear and tear already (similar to Muzzin).

There will also be no shortage of teams eager to add a guy with Hyman's unique profile. If he wants to go to the highest bidder, it almost certainly won't be here.

Before the playoffs I just assumed Hyman would definitely be back. Now I'm not so sure.

 

[hockeynorth]

I would sign Hyman for 4 x 4.5, or anything longer than that at 4 or less.

 

[ToneDog]

I think Hyman is all but gone. He won't take enough of a haircut to stay. Imagine more money and playing with McDavid. I'd set my sites on Goodrow. If the Panthers do not qualify Bennett, sign him as well. Coleman may be too expensive. Not sure about Brett Ritchie but I'll take him over a soft Engvall or Soup.

 

[mydnyte]

Hyman is a tough one. On the one hand, he has been such a warrior for us and contributes so much. His versatility and tenacity is exactly the kind of thing this roster needs more of, not less.

On the other hand...overpaying him (or really even paying him fair market value) is not even an option if we are keeping the core intact, which clearly seems to be the plan. To sign him at a reasonable cap means loading up on the term, which could be risky business for a guy who is starting to age and may be showing signs of wear and tear already (similar to Muzzin).

There will also be no shortage of teams eager to add a guy with Hyman's unique profile. If he wants to go to the highest bidder, it almost certainly won't be here.

Before the playoffs I just assumed Hyman would definitely be back. Now I'm not so sure.

didnt we acquire Joey Anderson as basically a slightly smaller Hyman clone?
we need to start integrating our youth into the lineup and giving them both a chance to play, and us the cap savings.
this is also the model Chicago used when they were winning and cap strapped, they would develop youngsters and trade them for more youth, and keep a rotating door of young talent around their core stars.

 

[mydnyte]

I think Hyman is all but gone. He won't take enough of a haircut to stay. Imagine more money and playing with McDavid. I'd set my sites on Goodrow. If the Panthers do not qualify Bennett, sign him as well. Coleman may be too expensive. Not sure about Brett Ritchie but I'll take him over a soft Engvall or Soup.

I'd LOVE to see Hyman on the Oilers ...and McDavid freaking out while Hyman is cycling the puck to himself and trying to worm his way to the net while McDavid is doing laps getting into open spots waiting for a pass that will never come, or passing to him for a give and go, and he dumps it into the corner instead and goes to fetch it, (then back to my previous point) then all the fans lauding Hyman and his 'work ethic' and 'puck battle' skills.

 

[MattMan]

Love Hyman but think we need to be careful here.

Playing with two superstars is going to prop up your numbers.

Montreal didn’t game plan for Hyman.

Hyman had boatloads of chances that he couldn’t bury in the Montreal series.

If he’s skating with a big contract and produces less or at par with now it will get ugly quick.

Hymans a solid player and should get paid. Just not by Toronto.

Toronto is an attractive destination for players willing to take a one year minimal deal with the hopes of a bigger pay day tomorrow.

Toronto has also proven they’re willing to invest in players to become even better versions of themselves. That’s attractive to players.

It's going to be a tough judgement regarding his production without these stars over a long time, but in his defence, he has produced very well on the third line without Marner or Matthews.

 

[Brown Dog]

What we really need, regardless of whether Hyman returns, is to find a couple of lower profile younger guys who play like him but still have some years of control. Profile should be speed, motor, physicality, versatility, low price point.

Is Joey Anderson that kind of guy?

This is where Dubas and the pro scouting department needs to really earn their keep. Anybody can overpay for superstars and lure hometown veterans on their last legs. If the core is staying together, the only path in going from good to great will be finding the right role players that can make an impact.

 

[ToneDog]

What we really need, regardless of whether Hyman returns, is to find a couple of lower profile younger guys who play like him but still have some years of control. Profile should be speed, motor, physicality, versatility, low price point.

Is Joey Anderson that kind of guy?

This is where Dubas and the pro scouting department needs to really earn their keep. Anybody can overpay for superstars and lure hometown veterans on their last legs. If the core is staying together, the only path in going from good to great will be finding the right role players that can make an impact.

We need a 4th line like the Isles. Spezza will be back so we need two of those types. We can't have a soft bottom 6 like we have now if we want playoff success.

 

[mydnyte]

What we really need, regardless of whether Hyman returns, is to find a couple of lower profile younger guys who play like him but still have some years of control. Profile should be speed, motor, physicality, versatility, low price point.

Is Joey Anderson that kind of guy?

This is where Dubas and the pro scouting department needs to really earn their keep. Anybody can overpay for superstars and lure hometown veterans on their last legs. If the core is staying together, the only path in going from good to great will be finding the right role players that can make an impact.

he didnt even get a look at him this year which is pretty sad when they were rotating everyone into the lineup from the taxi squad, but, i hope we find out.

 

[hockeynorth]

he didnt even get a look at him this year which is pretty sad when they were rotating everyone into the lineup from the taxi squad, but, i hope we find out.

he got a few games I thought

 

[Dreakmur]

I suggest that you go back and watch a few random periods and focus on Hyman. If you watch a few random periods you will definitely see how often he is the last guy in the offensive zone to touch the puck before the other team exists their zone. It's actually remarkable if you focus on it. In our house we make a game of it saying thing like "he did it again". This happens A LOT. While you're at it watch how many times he has a clear chance to score and messes it up. We notice things like this early and say things like "oh it's only Hands he'll miss". And lastly, watch for Matthews, Marner and Reilly coming up ice, entering the zone and absolutely ignoring Hands. Those three will almost always look for each other and avoid Hands even if he is by far the more open or likely play. It's not that his role is standing in the crease, these plays happen before that. His teammates know how bad he is. His coaches don't for some reason.

He's so bad it changes how you watch the top line because you know he's going to mess things up.

He’s not a skill player. If you expect him to make skilled plays, you’ll be disappointed.

I would suggest you watch how many times he’s the guy who gets the puck for that line.

 

[WTFMAN99]

BYE

 

[Stephen]

Having so few of the Hyman type in the organization is one of the reasons why it’s so frustrating to see them draft prospects who have no discernible compatibility with the existing roster. You don’t draft “for need” but how is it that Boston always seems to have high energy forechecking grinders to cycle into lower lines when Toronto is drafting guys like SDA who can’t do anything unless they emerge as a star player offensively?

 

[Stephen]

BYE

He can be someone else’s Kyle Okposo.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He can be someone else’s Kyle Okposo.

Having so few of the Hyman type in the organization is one of the reasons why it’s so frustrating to see them draft prospects who have no discernible compatibility with the existing roster. You don’t draft “for need” but how is it that Boston always seems to have high energy forechecking grinders to cycle into lower lines when Toronto is drafting guys like SDA who can’t do anything unless they emerge as a star player offensively?

Agreed on all accounts.

We've seen Dubas run this thing long enough, it is very flawed.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

If he wants over 5 have fun on another team, greedy, what a joke, i hope thats not true that we offered 5 and he wants 6. I really do.

4.5 is fine. Even 5 on a long term could eventually be a good contract, anything over is just crazy, not one player on this god damn team will help with the cap and take a discount. Jesus.

 

[WTFMAN99]

If he wants over 5 have fun on another team, greedy, what a joke, i hope thats not true that we offered 5 and he wants 6. I really do.

4.5 is fine. Even 5 on a long term could eventually be a good contract, anything over is just crazy, not one player on this god damn team will help with the cap and take a discount. Jesus.

See Ladd, Clarkson, Okposo, Lucic etc on how those guys age.

 

[DuklaNation]

If that is true, then dump his ass. You have a pattern of players demanding too much here. Dubas is not a cut throat businessman. Neither is Shanny. Change is needed now. These guys are acting like spoiled brats. Make the connection.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Coleman Goodrow and Paul on a new 3rd line would be great adds .. all fast all big all super strong on puck and man .. but it would require playing different systems with different lines .. puck possession hockey may work for 1-2 lines but not other 1-2 lines .. other teams can adopt but not sure our current GM/coach have it in them