Hyman Discussion Thread

[mydnyte]

Hyman is the straw that stirs the Leafs drink on many nights, and as he goes so do the Leafs.I wish we had a Zach Hyman for every Leafs line.

If some of our other more talented Leafs even had 1/2 the heart, will, compete level or effort and desire to win than Hyman we would be a pretty good team.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread Marner 36 goals the last 2 seasons and Hyman 36 goals .. Only Matthews, Tavares and Nylander have scored more goals than Zach.

in that case he's a Paper Straw, sounds like a good idea, and for at the beginning, it seems pretty good, but the longer you use it the worse it gets, until you realize its actually really bad, and ruins your drink.

As I pointed out Marner is not a 'goal scorer' and never has been, and Hyman is just fortunate enough to play with guys on a much higher caliber than he is.

Had the Leafs kept Brown, and let Hyman go to Ottawa instead, I'm sure Brown's numbers would have been far better than Hyman's and Hyman's wouldnt be as good on Ottawa.

I HOPE we find out what the real Hyman is when he is OFF the Leafs next year!

If he's still a Leaf, then for me that will be worse than losing to MTL.

 

[Mess]

Sadly sounding like Hyman is not willing to take enough of a discount to stay. Guess we can thank you know who for Leafs not being able to fit him in under the cap without further painting the GM into the corner he has pained himself in.

Take enough of a discount like Matthews, Marner and Nylander did to stay or because they didn't he is forced to leave?

Safe money might be Zach Hyman joining his former GM as he is voted off Leafs island and on to long island. Hyman would fit in well with his ex Leaf pals as his work ethic matches what they're successfully doing over there. Kid deserves to be in a winning environment as hard work and effort should produce results.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think we are amazed at Hyman for a couple of reasons...1. He is very good in the corners..2. we have nobody else that is good in the corners. So he seems outsized and amazing by our low standard of what is good when it comes to a grinder. If this was a few years ago...I would sign him for up to mid $4M range...but he has had 2 knee injuries and is starting to get less effective when it comes to winning battles. He was a shell of himself during the series and I couldn't believe it. I honestly thought he would be at full speed within a game or so..

Guy has all character in da world but he should not played this playoffs as he was still injured .. but he has done this almost every year .. too much heart to sit down .. his knees will go soon and then he is done .. our issue is we should have 5 Zach's on a playoff team but we only have 1 .. and we are gonna lose our 1 likely .. if you look at what we have lined up next year we are really totally screwed already .. in a tough division we are likely to miss on playoffs and then we are in a much worse trading position for new prez.GM

 

[mydnyte]

Guy has all character in da world but he should not played this playoffs as he was still injured .. but he has done this almost every year .. too much heart to sit down .. his knees will go soon and then he is done .. our issue is we should have 5 Zach's on a playoff team but we only have 1 .. and we are gonna lose our 1 likely .. if you look at what we have lined up next year we are really totally screwed already .. in a tough division we are likely to miss on playoffs and then we are in a much worse trading position for new prez.GM

having 5 Zach's would be like having 5 cars in a demolition derby.

 

[Kiwi]

Term will be key, but as you put it best Hyman hard work and physical play take a toll on his body over time, where he is really being punished financially in the big picture for working and competing too hard.

If you play a soft small game you're likely to perform well longer. Warriors like Hyman wear out sooner, buts these type of players that all teams love on their teams also.

They do, right up until that play style stops his contract looking like decent value

Then they aren't quite so keen to have them

 

[JT AM da real deal]

having 5 Zach's would be like having 5 cars in a demolition derby.

That is what it is like in pro playoff hockey a demolition derby and you need 5 as 2 likely to go down to injury in da war .. same with defenders even worse as we played a rook in games that mattered

 

[Donnie740]

having 5 Zach's would be like having 5 cars in a demolition derby.

Like having 5 VW Bugs in a demolition.

It’s heartwarming to see the little Bugs zipping around in the beginning - - until they run into a truck and have to get towed away.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Robertson couldn't even knock Joe Thornton or Pierre Engvall out of the lineup, and you're expecting him to replace Zach Hyman, who played more than both Nylander and Tavares....

Does Robertson's inexperience out weigh Keefe's mistakes of playing someone too much or too little ?

Hyman & Marner too much ice time
Nylander & Tavares no enough ice time.

 

[myleafs]

if you dont win the cup, winning a round is nothing really... to quote the immortal Ricky Bobby "If you ain't first, you're last"

Baby steps, lets win a round first and then talk about winning it all.

 

[Menzinger]

The issue with the Hyman extension is that even if the Leafs had 20+ million in capspace the same concerns about his contract extension remain.

He's at an age where offensive players start to decline and his body has already shown those wear and tear signs.

 

[Dreakmur]

Does Robertson's inexperience out weigh Keefe's mistakes of playing someone too much or too little ?

Hyman & Marner too much ice time
Nylander & Tavares no enough ice time.

Hyman should have played less, but he’s still a 17-18 minute player. Asking Robertson to jump right into that seems a bit much.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The issue with the Hyman extension is that even if the Leafs had 20+ million in capspace the same concerns about his contract extension remain.

He's at an age where offensive players start to decline and his body has already shown those wear and tear signs.

Fans I interact with online and even my own friends boggle my mind saying they would like him back.

I just flat out don't want him back, the decline that is incoming and being present for failures...just no appeal to me.

 

[hotpaws]

Guy has all character in da world but he should not played this playoffs as he was still injured .. but he has done this almost every year .. too much heart to sit down .. his knees will go soon and then he is done .. our issue is we should have 5 Zach's on a playoff team but we only have 1 .. and we are gonna lose our 1 likely .. if you look at what we have lined up next year we are really totally screwed already .. in a tough division we are likely to miss on playoffs and then we are in a much worse trading position for new prez.GM

we had plenty of Zach's when we finished dead last , lol

 

[JT AM da real deal]

we had plenty of Zach's when we finished dead last , lol

Yep we never ever get da mix right .. da best GMs they get player mix and fit right .. rooks almost always f*ck it up much like Sandin in playoffs

 

[hotpaws]

The issue with the Hyman extension is that even if the Leafs had 20+ million in capspace the same concerns about his contract extension remain.

He's at an age where offensive players start to decline and his body has already shown those wear and tear signs.

Hyman isn't an offensive player and the team can easily replace him by having Mik do what he's already doing but also gluing himself to the crease and banging in M and M's leftovers .

 

[ITM]

Take enough of a discount like Matthews, Marner and Nylander did to stay or because they didn't he is forced to leave?

Safe money might be Zach Hyman joining his former GM as he is voted off Leafs island and on to long island. Hyman would fit in well with his ex Leaf pals as his work ethic matches what they're successfully doing over there. Kid deserves to be in a winning environment as hard work and effort should produce results.

Nylander's holdout being conflated with his resulting contract here I think. Nylander signed a good contract. And the after the fact crowd can surely attest, it looks positively glowing in comparison to our other playoffs performers. That said, pre-pandemic, bloated though the numbers may be, Matthews' and Marner's regular season numbers, compared to peers don't put their contracts (pre-pandemic) out of whack with a rising cap. If Matthews and Marner performed in the playoffs commensurate with their production in the regular season, like say, Kucherov, some might say the numbers were fine.

Zach Hyman isn't going to lead the league in any offensive category. Matthews just won the Rocket. Marner's likely going to challenge for assists lead going forward for the duration of his contract, and if his shot begins to click, who knows what Marner's capable of when his stars align.

Just because a couple of our players exploited the system, doesn't mean that option is there for every player who plays in Toronto or wants to play in Toronto. The reason Hyman should take a discount is that the club needs him to. We need Reilly to. We need players who are willing to leave some on the table to battle for Toronto.

Some were up in arms when Shanahan compared players on the Wings having taken discounts while he didn't. Interesting point made by the relativists I suppose. But let's say, the reason Shanahan's hypocrisy as a manager is taken with convicted offence is because Shanahan the player didn't merit an exceptional contract. Exceptional contracts being the issue. Well...Not that he (Shanahan) knew it at the time, but I think some may have seen Shanahan as an extremely rare combination of physicality and skill. Ended up being the only player in NHL history with over 600 goals and over 2000 penalty minutes. That's the type of player you lend exceptional status to come contract time. That kind of promise is present in Matthews and Marner. That's part if not all of our frustration. But...

You don't do lend an exceptional contract outlay for a player like Zach Hyman, valuable as he is. And you can't trot out the Marner-Hyman goals scored comparison as contract leverage, anymore than you can pro-rate Logan Stanley's two goal game output against Marner or Hyman's truncated C-19 season's numbers.

As for Long Island...Barry Trotz might be a focus for why the club is doing so well. Full credit for LL being johnny on the spot to correct Washington's mistake.

 

[Donnie740]

Hyman isn't an offensive player and the team can easily replace him by having Mik do what he's already doing but also gluing himself to the crease and banging in M and M's leftovers .

The only team with a no-talent gimp like Mikheyev on the 1st line should be an AHL team.

 

[Notsince67]

Hyman isn't an offensive player and the team can easily replace him by having Mik do what he's already doing but also gluing himself to the crease and banging in M and M's leftovers .

At the expense of deflecting a few as well

 

[Folignos Helmet]

..... also my point. Hyman isn't the other players who broke down in their early 30s. Iginla was physical and fought...he was productive until his late 30s.

Hyman is smart and I'd call him careful... he's not reckless, doesn't throw big hits and doesn't fight.

Two knee surgeries on the same knee is a red flag though.

 

[ashs]

We usually ship out all our hard workers. Just got hyman, spezz and muzzin left to go.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Two knee surgeries on the same knee is a red flag though.

Especially when his game is 95% dependent on him being first on pucks and hard to move off of them. Cut a little speed and strength and you're looking at a 3rd liner who hustles. Maybe he adapts and turns into more of a Holmstrom but that's not a 30+ million dollar gamble worth taking.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm a little worried that the babbling coming from the media and "insiders" about Hyman being some hugely sought after ufa and that he'll be offered around 6 per on a long term deal on the open market is some preemptive excuse to justify Dubie handing him a 5ish x 8yr deal and trying to spin it like a discount and a great move by the team

 

[Nylander88]

Hyman wants North of 5...then I wish him the best. He's been a true warrior for us and it'll suck to see him go. But if you told me I could have Coleman & Goodrow or Coleman & McGinn for about 6 mil combined...or one Zach Hyman for 5-6mil...well I take the former options. We already are so cap strapped with our big contracts, we can't add another. And frankly, I think Coleman is a pretty good Hyman replacement and will be had for less than 5 I would have to think. Plays the same style of game, only nastier. Just doesn't get the coverage and press that Hyman gets here in Toronto.

 

[SeenSchenn2]

EvolvingHockey's got Hyman at 4 years, >$5M (I'm not sure I can post exact since they are paywalled). They don't hit 100% of the time, but they're usually pretty close.

Definitely got to walk from that.

 

[McSnypsky]

The only team with a no-talent gimp like Mikheyev on the 1st line should be an AHL team.

Remember when Mik Tavares and Marner were a thing? Mik might not be great but there is a Kunitz out there somewhere!