Confirmed with Link: Hronek traded to Vancouver for ‘23 1st (NYI) and ‘23 2nd (VAN)

[norrisnick]

Pittsburgh won a Cup with Letang out for the entire playoffs and without a single dman who was good as Hronek is a few years ago

Olli Maatta begs to differ.

 

[Reddwit]

That'd be 4D chess to trade for Mayfield to weaken the team whose 1st round pick we own.

That said, wrong side of 30. If he's on the market, sign him cheap. No need to trade.

I wasn’t talking about a trade. I was talking about him hitting the market, as Isles fans suspect

 

[HisNoodliness]

Canucks fan here in peace.

Now that Hronek is traded, can some Wings fans give me an objective answer to these questions? Please try to be as impartial as possible. Thanks

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.

1. I honestly think the value is pretty fair, perhaps a slight overpay. Hronek is still under team control, and will get a sizeable raise, but he's a valuable piece who brought in a valuable return.

2. He's below average defensively, but better than some wings fans will say. He's willing to engage physically, can skate well enough to keep with his man and generally does a decent job on the rush. In his own end, he can find himself out of position, sometimes gets beat by his guy, especially because he isn't huge and can get hemmed in by a tenacious forecheck. He takes more risks than he can back up and thus when he makes a mistake, it's usually really obvious.

3. He can play on the top pair, but his defensive problems get exposed too frequently and he can't shine offensively when he has too much responsibility. It's best if he's a second pairing + PP guy, and I would be very surprised if he grows into more.

4. Top 4

5. I think that he's been really similar the whole time. He was surprisingly good when he arrived and we all hoped that he might become a star because of how quickly he moved up to the top line. Mistakes that were originally written off as growing pains gradually just became the expectation and he never managed to rise to the role he was given. He had a great year this year because he's moved back down to the second pair.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Pittsburgh won a Cup with Letang out for the entire playoffs and without a single dman who was good as Hronek is a few years ago

Fair, but I think that’s like people pointing to Joe Flacco as the standard for Super Bowl winning QBs. It’s a major exception to the rule.

 

[Henkka]

Hmm...

...on our last 17-game stretch (started from Vegas, 10 wins in 14 games, then 3 losses),

Filip Hronek was Detroit's:

- worst defenceman in CorsiFor%
- second worst defenceman in GoalsFor%
- worst defenceman in xGF%
- worst defenceman in ScoringChancesFor%

 

[kliq]

Fair, but I think that’s like people pointing to Joe Flacco as the standard for Super Bowl winning QBs. It’s a major exception to the rule.

Good point.....also, having two elite level 1C's can help to offset the lack of D. Crosby/Malkin is a much better 1-2 punch then anything we are going to have.

 

[raymond23]

Here I am worried if we are going to end up with enough good players to have to pay legit $ to, and we trade a guy so we don't have to give him a raise?

I don't know... I don't really like that mentality.

What do we think Hronek would get for his next contract if he keeps up a similar level of play? Just curious, too lazy to look for comparables

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Olli Maatta begs to differ.

Maata isn't and wasn't (then) nearly as good as Hronek

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
Slight overpay in my opinion. Hronek for two 2nd rounders would be fair value, again, in my opinion.

2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
Hronek isn't bad defensively but he's not good at it either. If paired with a partner that can cover up his mistakes he can produce offence. That's where he shines a bit.

3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
Not a top pairing guy.

4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
Hronek is a top 4 guy best slotted with a good D partner who allows him to make mistakes while trying to create offence.

5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.
I wouldn't count on his recent surge to be the normal. Expect a top 4 guy / 2nd PP specialist.


He's not bad, he's not great. He's a serviceable top 4 D. You'll love him some nights and hate him on others.

I think you got a steal. He is very skilled, very competitive and despite not being being he provides some malice to his game

 

[SirloinUB]

What do we think Hronek would get for his next contract if he keeps up a similar level of play? Just curious, too lazy to look for comparables

The athletic has him playing at 8.1M value.

 

[norrisnick]

The athletic has him playing at 8.1M value.

Look at their model for Seider and tell me it makes any sense at all.

 

[SirloinUB]

Look at their model for Seider and tell me it makes any sense at all.

Hronek was having a better year in many statsistics.

Not suggesting it should be gospel but we'd absolutely be looking at a raise to retain Hronek. His next contract will be mostly UFA years so you have little leverage. Looking at some comparables, Travis Sanhiem got 6.5. Lindholm got 6.5 Morgan Reilly got 7.5. Ryan Pulock got 6.1.

With a rising cap youre looking at 7ish million per year as a starting point.

 

[norrisnick]

Hronek was having a better year in many statsistics.

Not suggesting it should be gospel but we'd absolutely be looking at a raise to retain Hronek. His next contract will be mostly UFA years so you have little leverage. Looking at some comparables, Travis Sanhiem got 6.5. Lindholm got 6.5 Morgan Reilly got 7.5. Ryan Pulock got 6.1.

With a rising cap youre looking at 7ish million per year as a starting point.

And it has Mo playing at like $1M. That's a broken model.

 

[SirloinUB]

And it has Mo playing at like $1M. That's a broken model.

Yes. It’s imperfect. As I said, should it shouldn’t be taken as gospel.


Do you care to address the numerous comparable I brought up? You’re dreaming of you think Hronek is going to get 7+ in a rising cap environment.

 

[norrisnick]

Yes. It’s imperfect. As I said, should it shouldn’t be taken as gospel.


Do you care to address the numerous comparable I brought up? You’re dreaming of you think Hronek is going to get 7+ in a rising cap environment.

Isn't that your argument pointing at this model? I've had Hronek penciled in around Larkin's old contract, low $6m, when bar- napkining the cap/payroll structure in the coming years.

 

[SirloinUB]

Isn't that your argument pointing at this model? I've had Hronek penciled in around Larkin's old contract, low $6m, when bar- napkining the cap/payroll structure in the coming years.

Typo on my part. I don’t see hronek signing for less than 7M in a rising cap environment.

And to be clear, I’m torn on this trade. 1st are important but it’s hard to replace legitimate nhl players via picks.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Thinking on it, it's weird we weren't able to get Horvat if Vancouver thought this highly of Hronek.

Guess they wanted the Moose and we were like hell naw.

 

[Roy S]

Seider’s underlying stats are great without Chiarot. The Athletic’s model would be better if they had some Chiarot tax incorporated into it. It’s better to look at multiple years of data anyway, and he looked great last year. I’d expect Seider to grade out as a top 10 d man in the NHL next year assuming he plays most of the year with Walman. I think it’s still under appreciated how bad of a player Chiarot is and he’s only going to get worse. Seider went from being on one of the worst D pairings in the NHL to one of the best in the span of like a week once they were split up.

 

[ricky0034]

Thinking on it, it's weird we weren't able to get Horvat if Vancouver thought this highly of Hronek.

Guess they wanted the Moose and we were like hell naw.

or maybe the Wings heard Horvat wasn't willing to sign here or something

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Here I am worried if we are going to end up with enough good players to have to pay legit $ to, and we trade a guy so we don't have to give him a raise?

I don't know... I don't really like that mentality.

It had less to do with money and more to do with the return. We’ll be fine with a RD free agent replacement and Edvinsson, dude. Way better off.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What you didn't like Erik Cole?

That’s not fair. He got a neck injury like immediately upon landing here. It’s feasible that he could have actually made a difference in that Tampa series that went 7.

Like, that was actually a reasonably priced acquisition that just didn’t work because hurt

 

[Frk It]

It had less to do with money and more to do with the return. We’ll be fine with a RD free agent replacement and Edvinsson, dude. Way better off.

Last 2 years we have signed guys like Leddy and Chiarot in free agency that have struggled here… but ok.

We are not a premier UFA destination.

 

[saska sault]

Last 2 years we have signed guys like Leddy and Chiarot in free agency that have struggled here… but ok.

We are not a premier UFA destination.

We traded for Leddy but he was agreeably a dud. To be fair, that team was not good.

 

[pz29]

Yeah but winning in the NHL isn't about winning 45 games in the regular season or making the playoffs, it's not about being 15th in the league rather than 28th. It's about winning the Stanley Cup. That's the goal of the team.

And you don't win Stanley Cups without elite performers. The teams that worry about secondary players, that trade picks to get a Bertuzzi etc. are teams that already got their elite performers and want to put it all together for a run. That's what the Wings did pretty much the entire 2000s. But that's not where the Wings are now, there's no Yzerman, no Fedorov, no Lidstrom, no Shanahan and not even a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Kronwall.

I think the team's strategy acknowledges that the team is missing difference makers. Whatever this current build was, it clearly wasn't good enough to be more than a middling team. Who on this team do I want to keep for sure? Outside Seider and Raymond I can't think of anyone right now and honestly as much as it would suck, we'd need to check in 4-5 years to see if those two are part of the next great core or not. Because right now there's no guarantees. But the solution isn't to just give it a go and pretend we'd have a contender on our hands by retaining what we have and signing a UFA D-man or something.

This is a larger question, of course, but, IMO, the whole lottery system for draft is a complete cluster%$#", especially with the possiblity of Bettman and co. rigging things every year. I don´t know what a better system might look like, but I tihnk the fans ends up being screwed. I am not asking to give up and pretend, but a lottery is not a plan for anything, including building a sports team.

 

[Henkka]

This is a larger question, of course, but, IMO, the whole lottery system for draft is a complete cluster%$#", especially with the possiblity of Bettman and co. rigging things every year. I don´t know what a better system might look like, but I tihnk the fans ends up being screwed. I am not asking to give up and pretend, but a lottery is not a plan for anything, including building a sports team.

I don't believe the lottery is rigged, but only solution to get rid of that speculation is just to get rid of the lottery and give picks in the final standings order.

Let the tankers TANK and have a total shitshow.

 

[pz29]

I don't believe the lottery is rigged, but only solution to get rid of that speculation is just to get rid of the lottery and give picks in the final standings order.

Let the tankers TANK and have a total shitshow.

I would support that. The lottery does not prevent intentional tanking 100% anyway. Maybe it is not rigged, but it is hard to deny that some teams have "better luck than others." Since 2010, Edmonton "won" four times, If these were actual lottery odds, I´d be buying Powerball tickets every day.