Confirmed with Link: Hronek traded to Vancouver for ‘23 1st (NYI) and ‘23 2nd (VAN)

[Hockeyfan2390]

Confirmed with Link: - Bertuzzi traded to Boston for 2024 1st & 2025 4th

Top 10 protected in 2024... Unprotected in 2025 if those conditions aren't met

forums.hfboards.com

Doesn't open for me. No clue why.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Doesn't open for me. No clue why.

Do you have people on the ignore list? Might be the reason why.

 

[Retire91]

Those picks still have to translate to something. I will never be convinced that THE way to improve your team is to get rid of some of your best players in order to MAYBE, a big maybe get something as good or better in the distant future.


I have other things to lift my spirits, trust me. But liking your team winning is part of being a sports fan, ins´t it?

But what do those players ultimately accomplish when there is no core backing them up? When we get to the conference and stanley cup finals we are going to be competing against teams that have 2 or 3 top 3 picks on their roster. We need to match up or in all honesty why did we move on from holland then?

I don't want to see us just get in the playoffs, I want to see a legit run and I am willing to wait for that because waiting for is the proven way to get there.

To clarify where I stand I am not in favor trading Larkin for picks because he can still be part of the core. Bertuzzi was not going contribute to the core at the time the wings start to compete and could walk for nothing eventually too and his game is declining with major injuries because of his play style. Hronik was a great move while he still had some value. IMO trading them was the correct and only move where the team is at right now.

 

[tyhee]

Hi Everyone. I'm a British Columbia resident who has grown weary of watching the Canucks make poor management decisions and was looking for a different team to follow. In this day and age it isn't like it was when I was a kid-the team can be anywhere.

I happen to think this is an idiotic trade for the Canucks to make, regardless of overall value. I believe the Canucks timing is off on this trade-they aren't good enough that Hronek is going to bring them near championship contention and their best chance to get really good is to aim for the future. This win now move on Vancouver's part seems like a mistake to me.

So after years of watching Vancouver make this kind of move I decided to look for another team to follow and it hit me looking at this trade that following Yzerman's team would mean that there won't be endless frustration with the direction management is taking. I hope you guys won't mind me parking here and choosing the Wings as my team to follow.

A few comments on comments I've seen in this thread:

1. There was speculation Yzerman might be considering Parayko as a target. That would be a big surprise to me if it is the case. It is simply hard to imagine Steve Yzerman choosing to take on Parayko's sunset retirement contract at $6.5 million per season for another 7 seasons, until he is 36. That cap hit looked ok a year ago and perhaps not too awful right now but there is enough chance that it won't age well that it would imo be a shocking mistake to trade for that contract.

2. Someone spoke of the deal being for a low first and a 2nd. The Islanders 1st round pick, if it is this season, rates to be a mid-range first. In my view the Wings should root for the Islanders to finish the season with the 13th overall pick. The conditions of the Horvat trade would have the pick moving to 2024 if it is 12th or higher.

Vancouver's 2023 2nd rates to be a high 2nd and is in a draft rated to be the best in some years. I think between the two picks Detroit got good value for Hronek.

3. Someone spoke of Hronek being under team control for 3 years. Of course, his contract has one year to run after this season and he is in position to become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2025.

4. It is interesting that Detroit and Nashville, both teams that are quite a bit ahead of the Canucks, are making moves for the future while the Canucks, presently in a race against the Arizona Coyotes for 5th worst record in the league, is making moves intended to help them next season at the cost of the chance to acquire players that won't help right away but could be very useful in the future.

Wings fans who don't like this trade are probably focussed on how the team will do in the near future. When a team isn't a playoff team (or even if it is a team on the bubble) it seems to me that the very near future much less important that planning for when the team is good enough to contend for a championship.

Cheers.

 

[Ita]

Canucks fan here in peace.

Now that Hronek is traded, can some Wings fans give me an objective answer to these questions? Please try to be as impartial as possible. Thanks

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Canucks fan here in peace.

Now that Hronek is traded, can some Wings fans give me an objective answer to these questions? Please try to be as impartial as possible. Thanks

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
Slight overpay in my opinion. Hronek for two 2nd rounders would be fair value, again, in my opinion.

2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
Hronek isn't bad defensively but he's not good at it either. If paired with a partner that can cover up his mistakes he can produce offence. That's where he shines a bit.

3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
Not a top pairing guy.

4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
Hronek is a top 4 guy best slotted with a good D partner who allows him to make mistakes while trying to create offence.

5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.
I wouldn't count on his recent surge to be the normal. Expect a top 4 guy / 2nd PP specialist.


He's not bad, he's not great. He's a serviceable top 4 D. You'll love him some nights and hate him on others.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Canucks fan here in peace.

Now that Hronek is traded, can some Wings fans give me an objective answer to these questions? Please try to be as impartial as possible. Thanks

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.

1. Fair value, but probably the wrong team to pay it.
2. He can defend, he’s competitive, but he can lose focus, stray out of position, and get beat outside. His point production is his calling card.
3. There are probably worse players getting top pairing minutes, but if Hronek is your best right handed defenseman your team isn’t getting far. I don’t see him improving majorly beyond his performance this season, but he’s what 25 so crazier things have happened. I think Filip Hronek has a lotta good hockey ahead of him.
4. Top 4.
5. Tough call because we were so damn bad during most of his time here. Maatta is the one not-terrible partner we’ve given him and he played his best hockey. I wouldn’t say he’s had a super linear growth pattern in the NHL though, his production has been consistently good, the things he struggles with he’s mitigated a bit but still generally struggles with.

 

[jkutswings]

Canucks fan here in peace.

Now that Hronek is traded, can some Wings fans give me an objective answer to these questions? Please try to be as impartial as possible. Thanks

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.

Overall I think Hronek is a decent #3 who is much better at offense than defense. Put him with a stay at home guy on the second pair and he'll be fine. Expect him to carry a first pairing and he will get exposed.

 

[Retire91]

So after years of watching Vancouver make this kind of move I decided to look for another team to follow and it hit me looking at this trade that following Yzerman's team would mean that there won't be endless frustration with the direction management is taking. I hope you guys won't mind me parking here and choosing the Wings as my team to follow.

Welcome aboard! One thing to prepare for is Yzerman is taking a fairly patient approach and this is not a normal rebuild because Holland created one of the worst rosters in NHL history. I think the Hronik and Bertuzzi trades today are showing that the rebuild is still in progress. However with Yzerman you can always count on moves being for long term success. I think that is one of the frustrations with Holland and other teams is that managers often make at best short term moves, or at worst incompetent nonsense moves. I think Yzerman's track record shows he continously improves the team. Be prepared for some trash hockey, but with a promising future.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Welcome aboard! One thing to prepare for is Yzerman is taking a fairly patient approach and this is not a normal rebuild because Holland created one of the worst rosters in NHL history. I think the Hronik and Bertuzzi trades today are showing that the rebuild is still in progress. However with Yzerman you can always count on moves being for long term success. I think that is one of the frustrations with Holland and other teams is that managers often make at best short term moves, or at worst incompetent nonsense moves. I think Yzerman's track record shows he continously improves the team. Be prepared for some trash hockey, but with a promising future.

Holland built a roster that looked like an early 90s expansion roster, and with the way the lottery is set up the Wings aren't going to get any help fixing it.

 

[Oddbob]

Hi Everyone. I'm a British Columbia resident who has grown weary of watching the Canucks make poor management decisions and was looking for a different team to follow. In this day and age it isn't like it was when I was a kid-the team can be anywhere.

I happen to think this is an idiotic trade for the Canucks to make, regardless of overall value. I believe the Canucks timing is off on this trade-they aren't good enough that Hronek is going to bring them near championship contention and their best chance to get really good is to aim for the future. This win now move on Vancouver's part seems like a mistake to me.

So after years of watching Vancouver make this kind of move I decided to look for another team to follow and it hit me looking at this trade that following Yzerman's team would mean that there won't be endless frustration with the direction management is taking. I hope you guys won't mind me parking here and choosing the Wings as my team to follow.

A few comments on comments I've seen in this thread:

1. There was speculation Yzerman might be considering Parayko as a target. That would be a big surprise to me if it is the case. It is simply hard to imagine Steve Yzerman choosing to take on Parayko's sunset retirement contract at $6.5 million per season for another 7 seasons, until he is 36. That cap hit looked ok a year ago and perhaps not too awful right now but there is enough chance that it won't age well that it would imo be a shocking mistake to trade for that contract.

2. Someone spoke of the deal being for a low first and a 2nd. The Islanders 1st round pick, if it is this season, rates to be a mid-range first. In my view the Wings should root for the Islanders to finish the season with the 13th overall pick. The conditions of the Horvat trade would have the pick moving to 2024 if it is 12th or higher.

Vancouver's 2023 2nd rates to be a high 2nd and is in a draft rated to be the best in some years. I think between the two picks Detroit got good value for Hronek.

3. Someone spoke of Hronek being under team control for 3 years. Of course, his contract has one year to run after this season and he is in position to become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2025.

4. It is interesting that Detroit and Nashville, both teams that are quite a bit ahead of the Canucks, are making moves for the future while the Canucks, presently in a race against the Arizona Coyotes for 5th worst record in the league, is making moves intended to help them next season at the cost of the chance to acquire players that won't help right away but could be very useful in the future.

Wings fans who don't like this trade are probably focussed on how the team will do in the near future. When a team isn't a playoff team (or even if it is a team on the bubble) it seems to me that the very near future much less important that planning for when the team is good enough to contend for a championship.

Cheers.

Let me talk with the group, and we will get back to you on you joining us!

 

[Retire91]

Canucks fan here in peace.

Now that Hronek is traded, can some Wings fans give me an objective answer to these questions? Please try to be as impartial as possible. Thanks

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.

Hello! I don't think it was an overpayment I think that is a pretty fair market value for a defenseman with some pedagree that is not an aging vet. I mean its not really common to see a successful 25 yo blueliner move.

I do think Hronek benefited from Holland's depleated roster. On a normal team that was not driven into the ground talentwise by Holland then Hronek would probably not have been given first line minutes. However when given those duties he generated a lot of offense. I think he can be a good second pairing and a 'great' third pairing if the objective is offense and he can be paired with someone that can cover the heavy lifting on defense.

I think the trending down is the inevidability of Detroit getting Seider and veterans and Hronik no longer being litterally the only D with skill on the team. Hronek's offensive abilities got him on the scoreboard more when he had first line dutries becuase 'there was no one else on the team to put ahead of him'. As he got knocked down the depth chart his points naturally took a hit. So if it makes sense, his skills never regressed. Just his ice time and role on the team changed.

I think you will be happy with him if he deployed correctly as a light duty offensive D who needs a stay at home partner. And I don't think you overpaid. A first and a second would be something I would expect for a 25 year old D that comes with some pedigree and is a trade involving only picks.

Edit: I should probably add that I am not necessarily happy to see Hronik go. It's just that where our team is at now we really need the picks more because its looking like our D is really well filled out by our prospect pool. Hronek was an incredibly bright spot for us fans when we had almost nothing else going for us. Will never forget that.

 

[sepster]

Let me talk with the group, and we will get back to you on you joining us!

Are we checking Social Media history, ESGs and WAR?

 

[Oddbob]

Are we checking Social Media history, ESGs and WAR?

I think we need to be very thorough this time around.

 

[Perfect Human]

Are we checking Social Media history, ESGs and WAR?

nah, the best stat is ppg, posts per game.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So did I (the dead wings). I admire your optimism.

Ha. It's definitely not my nature normally.

I think a lot of it is in spite of where the Wings have been in the standings, this is not a playoff team. I definitely didn't want them being buyers. Of all the moves Hronek is the one I'm just waiting and seeing on.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I have other things to lift my spirits, trust me. But liking your team winning is part of being a sports fan, ins´t it?

Yeah but winning in the NHL isn't about winning 45 games in the regular season or making the playoffs, it's not about being 15th in the league rather than 28th. It's about winning the Stanley Cup. That's the goal of the team.

And you don't win Stanley Cups without elite performers. The teams that worry about secondary players, that trade picks to get a Bertuzzi etc. are teams that already got their elite performers and want to put it all together for a run. That's what the Wings did pretty much the entire 2000s. But that's not where the Wings are now, there's no Yzerman, no Fedorov, no Lidstrom, no Shanahan and not even a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Kronwall.

I think the team's strategy acknowledges that the team is missing difference makers. Whatever this current build was, it clearly wasn't good enough to be more than a middling team. Who on this team do I want to keep for sure? Outside Seider and Raymond I can't think of anyone right now and honestly as much as it would suck, we'd need to check in 4-5 years to see if those two are part of the next great core or not. Because right now there's no guarantees. But the solution isn't to just give it a go and pretend we'd have a contender on our hands by retaining what we have and signing a UFA D-man or something.

 

[jaster]

How is Hronek in his own end? This move doesnt seem to make sense for the Canucks. We need d that are solid in their own zone.

He's been good in his own end this year. Historically he can be a little hit or miss. There are three things that contribute to defensive effectiveness, and here's how Hronek rates:

Compete - A
Hronek shows a lot of effort, he doesn't give up on plays and will battle with the best of them.

IQ - B
This was maybe a C in the past, but I'm bumping him up based on a number of stellar defensive plays this season.

Physical tools - D
Hronek is undersized for the modern NHL and only an average skater at best. He's prone to being out-muscled in front of the net or in the corners by bigger players. He's prone to being beat by high speed, although his positioning is usually good to mitigate that.

Overall, he's not a shutdown guy by any means, but he's competent enough, competes, and PK's pretty well, despite those physical limitations.

 

[jaster]

Canucks fan here in peace.

Now that Hronek is traded, can some Wings fans give me an objective answer to these questions? Please try to be as impartial as possible. Thanks

1. Do you think the Canucks overpaid, or was it fair value?
2. Can he defend, or is he not very good defensively?
3. Does he have top pairing potential, or do you think he is peak at this point?
4. As of now, do you considering him a top 2/4/6 defender?
5. During his tenure in Detroit, did you see him get better? According to some analytics guys, he has been trending down already in the last few months.

1. Fair value to slight underpayment. Given his age, contributions, and team control, it's certainly not an overpay.

2. He can, but he's not a shutdown guy. He competes hard and has decent IQ in the D zone, but his physical tools (undersized, average skating) definitely limit him.

3. No, not on a good team or if you want to extract value out of him. He's going to provide value being a 2nd-pair guy, where he has excelled for Detroit this season.

4. Top-4, 2nd pair.

5. Yes. This season has been his best offensively, and probably defensively. So the big picture trend is positive. That said, within this season, he has trended down after a very effective first couple months. Part of that is definitely his defense partner. He was highly effective with Olli Maatta, but struggled with Ben Chiarot (who has dragged down every defenseman he's been paired with this season). If the analytics disagree with this assessment, the analytics can be thrown directly into the trash

 

[Reddwit]

Yes. Had we won, Hronek is staying in Detroit, and Yzerman is a buyer.

Sure, til the off-season. But Hronek’s long-term future was being assessed long before these last few games. You don’t go from thinking a guy is in your future plans to jettisoning said player less than a week later. Yzerman is not a reactionary.

 

[Frk It]

I think the team's strategy acknowledges that the team is missing difference makers. Whatever this current build was, it clearly wasn't good enough to be more than a middling team.

2 of our last 4 top 10 picks aren't even on the team yet... how the hell do we know?

 

[Reddwit]

Regarding the speculation on Parayko - does Yzerman even consider trading for Parayko until he knows Mayfield is off the market? They’re very similar players at this stage of their career and Mayfield is only 7 months older than Parayko. Edvinsson-Mayfield would be a sick 2nd pairing.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

2 of our last 4 top 10 picks aren't even on the team yet... how the hell do we know?

And I don't recall those guys being dumped or given up on. But right now the only question to ask is whether a guy on the team is a guy who will be a useful asset on a Wings team that contends for the later stages of the playoffs in 4-5 years. Everyone else is just a chip to be used and if you can sell at high value then that's the right move. Clearly Yzerman decided Hronek is a chip. Nobody will be able to tell if it's right or wrong for years, but I can certainly see the argument for the trade. This is an NHL that is incredibly conducive to making guys like Hronek look better than they are.

 

[norrisnick]

Regarding the speculation on Parayko - does Yzerman even consider trading for Parayko until he knows Mayfield is off the market? They’re very similar players at this stage of their career and Mayfield is only 7 months older than Parayko. Edvinsson-Mayfield would be a sick 2nd pairing.

That'd be 4D chess to trade for Mayfield to weaken the team whose 1st round pick we own.

That said, wrong side of 30. If he's on the market, sign him cheap. No need to trade.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

1. Fair value, but probably the wrong team to pay it.
2. He can defend, he’s competitive, but he can lose focus, stray out of position, and get beat outside. His point production is his calling card.
3. There are probably worse players getting top pairing minutes, but if Hronek is your best right handed defenseman your team isn’t getting far. I don’t see him improving majorly beyond his performance this season, but he’s what 25 so crazier things have happened. I think Filip Hronek has a lotta good hockey ahead of him.
4. Top 4.
5. Tough call because we were so damn bad during most of his time here. Maatta is the one not-terrible partner we’ve given him and he played his best hockey. I wouldn’t say he’s had a super linear growth pattern in the NHL though, his production has been consistently good, the things he struggles with he’s mitigated a bit but still generally struggles with.

Pittsburgh won a Cup with Letang out for the entire playoffs and without a single dman who was good as Hronek is a few years ago