Speculation: How would you go about a rebuild?

[ToneDog]

They were 2 years into the "rebuild" when Dubas took over. 2 years!!!!!

The rookie GM just had to "make a big splash" by signing JT. Screwed the salary structure and "addressed" a need that didn't exist.

It was nowhere near done and the continued first round exits are the result. No different than when Burke tried to shortcut things with the Kessel trade.

Sadly you are not wrong but if Matty and Mitch do not have what it takes to push the ball over the goal line, it really does not make any difference whether they fast tracked the rebuild by signing Tavares. That has been the constant with this team and until they prove they can, they are the #1 reason IMO that they have not advanced past 1 win in round #2.

 

[Jojalu]

They were 2 years into the "rebuild" when Dubas took over. 2 years!!!!!

The rookie GM just had to "make a big splash" by signing JT. Screwed the salary structure and "addressed" a need that didn't exist.

It was nowhere near done and the continued first round exits are the result. No different than when Burke tried to shortcut things with the Kessel trade.

They were awful for 10 years. They had already drafted Kadri and Rielly. After they drafted the 3 plus had traded for Hyman, had Brown plus still had Kapand Johnsson in the AHL, how much younger were they going to get?

They then went to draft Sandin and Lily hoping one of them woull turn out to be a legit top 4.

I would argue that in fact the rebuild was pretgy complete.

The Tavares signing might have been premature like the Kessel trade, but I certainly understand why anyone would sign a top player who is an UFA and wants to play for your team.

in stl he had the same age than hildeby right now

the season he had been traded for conacher if i remembered, he had a sv % of 0.922 but ottawa had already anderson and lehner so they had no choice to move someone

Too bad the Leafs didn't jump all over him.

 

[Menzinger]

Not really.

They drafted Stamkos, then Hedman, followed by Kucherov and Palat. That is 3 forwards who were crucial to their success before they drafted Vasi.

They then bombed and picked up Drouin, who they turned into Sergachev before finding gold in Point.

Yep. He was a mid-late 1st round selection for the the team too. He's certainly become a central part of their core now, but he wasn't the leading piece of their build.

Tampa Is probably the one main outlier for a star goalie playing such a big role. Most other successful teams have tended to treat them more as secondary pieces in terms of importance/salary allocation

A good lesson that ultimately there's no single blueprint to build a cup winner other than "get a bunch of good players"

 

[egd27]

I already posted a more detailed one on this topic, so I won't go into as much detail here...

How can you assess the Tavares signing without any acknowledgement of the pandemic / flat cap that immediately followed?

Simple. When was the last time a team made a UFA their highest paid player to play a 2nd line position?

They had already drafted Kadri and Rielly. After they drafted the 3 plus had traded for Hyman, had Brown plus still had Kapand Johnsson in the AHL, how much younger were they going to get?

Wasn't a matter of getting younger, it was about taking a bit more time to assess what you actually had in those young players before blowing the cap on a luxury.

BTW....Brown, Kap and Johnsson all ended up being cap casualties and ended up not being that valuable

 

[thusk]

They were awful for 10 years. They had already drafted Kadri and Rielly. After they drafted the 3 plus had traded for Hyman, had Brown plus still had Kapand Johnsson in the AHL, how much younger were they going to get?

They then went to draft Sandin and Lily hoping one of them woull turn out to be a legit top 4.

I would argue that in fact the rebuild was pretgy complete.

The Tavares signing might have been premature like the Kessel trade, but I certainly understand why anyone would sign a top player who is an UFA and wants to play for your team.


Too bad the Leafs didn't jump all over him.

yeah would be a nice target

if leafs are unable to move for a #2 D at TDL and depending whats happening with team canada jr... Hart could be something leafs should looking for brcause they will need a goalie able to step up in playoff

rfa and who will be able to reach free agency in 1 1/2 season and i dont think would be interest to stay in philly

 

[34]

Trade Marner first move. Try to get a top pairing D man.

 

[Jojalu]

Simple. When was the last time a team made a UFA their highest paid player to play a 2nd line position?


Wasn't a matter of getting younger, it was about taking a bit more time to assess what you actually had in those young players before blowing the cap on a luxury.

BTW....Brown, Kap and Johnsson all ended up being cap casualties and ended up not being that valuable

Agreed. But that wasn't known at the time.

Hindsight is very easy. If you were in the moment and had just watched them play a competetive series against Was while they were all rookies, followed by taking a better Bos team to game 7, how would you not believe they might have been a Tavares away from taking the next step?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

How about.....stopping the Kadri stuff. And I liked Kadri.

As millions have said, he had to go, and he was the #3C here. Again......he was the #3C here. He was always going to be the #3C here, and was going to get less opportunities, and he didn't have a bottom 6 skillset. They tried it for 1 season, and it just didn't work

So why the whining still? We have seen years and years of it on here when 5 seconds of critical thinking would have brought everyone to this same above conclusion, except for the irrational Kadri fanboys.

The main reason I think people keep bring Kadri up is the return...not the trading of him. If our management had any sense...they would have minimized the second stupid suspension he got and said they would stand behind him blah blah and should have gone into the next season with him and THEN traded him when his value was higher. Trading him the way they did was knee jerk and it backfired. I agree he wasn't a good 3C and was kind of pouting with JT getting the money and he was dropped to the 3rd line. He had to go...it was for WHO he went for that is the problem in most peoples eyes. Could be wrong..but that's how I felt.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Trade Marner first move. Try to get a top pairing D man.

Great.

Who?

 

[conFABulator]

Simple. When was the last time a team made a UFA their highest paid player to play a 2nd line position?


Wasn't a matter of getting younger, it was about taking a bit more time to assess what you actually had in those young players before blowing the cap on a luxury.

BTW....Brown, Kap and Johnsson all ended up being cap casualties and ended up not being that valuable

I am not sure why you gave such an oddly specific circumstance to make your point. I don't know when the LAST time that happened, but I do know Chicago had a young core, signed UFA Hossa to be their highest paid player. He was their fifth highest scorer in the regular season and seventh highest in their cup run. They went on to win there cups after they signed him.

Why did you ask?

 

[Leafblooded]

Trade Marner

 

[therealkoho]

Lock up your stars coming off ELCs to max term deals.

So, don't let a rookie GM handle the negotiations?

 

[GardinerTheForward]

They were 2 years into the "rebuild" when Dubas took over. 2 years!!!!!

The rookie GM just had to "make a big splash" by signing JT. Screwed the salary structure and "addressed" a need that didn't exist.

It was nowhere near done and the continued first round exits are the result. No different than when Burke tried to shortcut things with the Kessel trade.

Who was the Gm in 2015… Who were the assitant GMs in 2015

Not trying to pick on you just seen this 3 times in this thread and its becoming clear that some people don’t realize how much input Kyle had BEFORE Lou

 

[Mr_Fun]

Hope you get as lucky as the draft as they 2014-16. Otherwise it will probably take quite a while

I think people underestimate how much luck is really involved in building a championship team. I mean there really is no formula for knowing how well players will play together as a unit. With all the parity in the league - especially with the salary cap - you can build your team in a way that won't necessarily match up well in the playoffs with certain teams. I'm in no way trying to diminish what skill and hard work will accomplish because you obviously need a lot of that too -- to go along with a lot of luck.

 

[egd27]

Agreed. But that wasn't known at the time.

Hindsight is very easy. If you were in the moment and had just watched them play a competetive series against Was while they were all rookies, followed by taking a better Bos team to game 7, how would you not believe they might have been a Tavares away from taking the next step?

You just perfectly encapsulated the difference between an experienced GM and a fan.

 

[Jojalu]

You just perfectly encapsulated the difference between an experienced GM and a fan.

Price tag aside, how was it any different than Lou bringing in Marleau? He was an experienced GM. He wanted someone to help bring them along.

 

[egd27]

Who was the Gm in 2015… Who were the assitant GMs in 2015

Not trying to pick on you just seen this 3 times in this thread and its becoming clear that some people don’t realize how much input Kyle had BEFORE Lou

Are you referring to the 68 and 69 point seasons?

I have no idea how much input Kyle had before Lou, would be happy to learn. Let me know.

 

[egd27]

Price tag aside, how was it any different than Lou bringing in Marleau? He was an experienced GM. He wanted someone to help bring them along.

Seriously?

 

[Jojalu]

Seriously?

Maybe I am wrong. Care to explain the difference?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

They were 2 years into the "rebuild" when Dubas took over. 2 years!!!!!

The rookie GM just had to "make a big splash" by signing JT. Screwed the salary structure and "addressed" a need that didn't exist.

It was nowhere near done and the continued first round exits are the result. No different than when Burke tried to shortcut things with the Kessel trade.

You're right about all of the Dubas messing up the pay structure and all that.

But mlse abandoned the rebuild when the all rookie team snuck into the playoffs. I called it at the time. It was the worse thing possible to happen.

It put them in "win now" mode. The official signal of "abandoned rebuild" was the signing of Marleau. Which was about a year and a half after Babcock warned leaf nation that "pain is coming" in the form of a long term extensive rebuild.

 

[egd27]

You're right about all of the Dubas messing up the pay structure and all that.

But mlse abandoned the rebuild when the all rookie team snuck into the playoffs. I called it at the time. It was the worse thing possible to happen.

It put them in "win now" mode. The official signal of "abandoned rebuild" was the signing of Marleau. Which was about a year and a half after Babcock warned leaf nation that "pain is coming" in the form of a long term extensive rebuild.

I agree with making the playoffs didn't do the org any favors. Not sure I believe Marleau was the "abandoned rebuild" signal.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I agree with making the playoffs didn't do the org any favors. Not sure I believe Marleau was the "abandoned rebuild" signal.

If you look at Maple Leaf trade history, the leafs were hoarding up on prospects and picks in 2015 and 2016. Marleau signs in 2017. The leafs trade history was no longer acquiring prospects and picks. In fact, it was more things like giving up prospects and picks to get players like Plekanec for playoff runs.

 

[Menzinger]

If you look at Maple Leaf trade history, the leafs were hoarding up on prospects and picks in 2015 and 2016. Marleau signs in 2017. The leafs trade history was no longer acquiring prospects and picks. In fact, it was more things like giving up prospects and picks to get players like Plekanec for playoff runs.

Yep. After Matthews was drafted, they stated trading futures for win now players (Andersen and then Plekanec).

The focus from the rebuild strategy definitely shifted focus away from acquiring assets then, and to focusing on what they had internally in terms of prospects + adding veterans to round out the rest of the lineup. Both Lou and Dubas' would follow this approach, though they obviously opted to go about that same general strategy in different ways

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yep. After Matthews was drafted, they stated trading futures for win now players (Andersen and then Plekanec).

The focus from the rebuild strategy definitely shifted focus away from acquiring assets then, and to focusing on what they had internally in terms of prospects + adding veterans to round out the rest of the lineup. Both Lou and Dubas' would follow this approach, though they obviously opted to go about that same general strategy in different ways

The leafs trade history during the 2016/17 season was shuffling around picks and prospects with other teams. Anderson was 25 (I think?) when the leafs got him. It wasn't a "win now" trade. It was a "we found a long term goalie" trade.

The leafs only started doing "win now" trades (at the expense of picks and prospects) after the all rookie team snuck into the playoffs. The leafs winning that game against the Penguins in April 2017 was one of the worst things to ever happen to this franchise.

 

[rumman]

never allow no movement clauses, limited trade clauses only for premiere players. Even if it cost more dollars.