Speculation: How would you go about a rebuild?

[Martin Skoula]

what makes people think Lou is a great negotiator? Zaitsev/Marleau/Pageau/Komarov(NYI) contracts were beyond awful and those are just some examples. even in NYI it's not like Barzal's contract or Horvats deal or even Sorokin's deals are steals either.

like Barzal coming out of his ELC he signed him to a 3 year deal. worst then Matthews Length. then coming off a 59 point in 73 games he signed him to a 9.1 million dollar deal for 8 years. and people complain about Marner at 11. you get an extra 40 points for 2 million.

No way man Lou is an expert negotiator. Last time a star came in with unreasonable demands, Lou bent over and gave Kovalchuk 100 million on such a bad contract he got fined for it.

 

[notbias]

I can see that. More so because of negotiations skills. I also was not a fan of an accelerated rebuild with a heavy focus on skilled forwards who play "small'.

Yes... Lou who I am assuming is the most experienced GM just signed a contract that he said was "too long and too much", that man would have got the RFAs on a much cheaper deal.

Hockey is simple you build from the net out and up the middle. I'd protect my 1st and 2nd round picks and look for value deals in the UFA market. Gillick had the right philosophy that he said (but later changed his mind) never sign anyone to a contract over 3 years and he would only trade with teams that had a winning atmosphere (which he later changed his stance), he wanted guys who had a history of being on winning teams, thinking that would bring that attitude to his locker room.

Which team recently has built from the net out?

I can't think of any.

 

[Gilmour1996]

I wouldn't rebuild. But I'd make a big change by getting rid of Marner. Take him off the PP/PK. Move him to the 3rd line. Stop coddling him. Use the press to downplay his contributions. Once he gets to 0.5 ppg when there is future money at stake, I think he will agree to a trade. The current management team doesn't have the balls to be heavy-handed with him however.

 

[Hellcat]

Yes... Lou who I am assuming is the most experienced GM just signed a contract that he said was "too long and too much", that man would have got the RFAs on a much cheaper deal.



Which team recently has built from the net out?

I can't think of any.

Why does it have to be recently, why frame it like that, why cant it be name a team that is successful that has a good goalie?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Drafting for position in the lottery is a great way to never get out of your rebuild.

 

[Trapper]

This is the Maple Leafs.
The answer is wait for the next one.

 

[colchar]

4. Don't do stupid trades like a cost controlled asset in kadri for a bunch of freakin' nobodies

He had to go because of his stupidity in the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

Why does it have to be recently, why frame it like that, why cant it be name a team that is successful that has a good goalie?

Because the NHL is different than 20 years ago... building from the net out implies that the goalie and D are the stars or at least how they win the games... and I can't think of a single team in recent memory that fits that...

 

[keonsbitterness]

I wouldn't rebuild. But I'd make a big change by getting rid of Marner. Take him off the PP/PK. Move him to the 3rd line. Stop coddling him. Use the press to downplay his contributions. Once he gets to 0.5 ppg when there is future money at stake, I think he will agree to a trade. The current management team doesn't have the balls to be heavy-handed with him however.

Not sure he'd ever agree to be traded, but moving him down the lineup wouldn't be a bad idea if his game doesn't pick up soon.

 

[horner]

I can see that. More so because of negotiations skills. I also was not a fan of an accelerated rebuild with a heavy focus on skilled forwards who play "small'.

They never fixed the D when they signed JT I thought it was the wrong signing at the time and feel the same today.
Because of JT we had to give up a first for Marleau

It was a domino affect

They tried to jump it by 2 yrs

Bozak should have been signed
Matt Martin we should have kept

 

[Mess]

Why does it have to be recently, why frame it like that, why cant it be name a team that is successful that has a good goalie?

Andrei Vasilevskiy is a $10mil AAV goalie that lead TB to 2 recent Stanley Cups and a near 3rd with a loss in Stanley Cup final.

TB has a Conn Smythe winning Goalie and a Conn Smythe & Norris winning Dman in Hedman fueling a "Good teams are built from the goalie out" among their top Cap consuming players.

This is both recent and relevant.

 

[Mess]

Step 1 : Fire Shanahan .. 10 years and 1 playoff round to show for it.
Step 2: Fire Keefe ... Bring in a real coach.

Unfortunately MLSE only got rid of 1/3 of the current problem, and once we have competent management in place we can move on to the next phase.

Until there is an official end to the Shanaplan, there is no future success potential being realized.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Please make this thread in 7 years. K thx

 

[kb]

Top 10

1. Don't hire a rookie GM who thinks they are the smartest in the room and can't do wrong

2. Don't overpay for your top picks and lock them long term so you have extended kick at the can (i.e. cup) with controlled costs

3. Don't blow your load all on forwards and balance the team with #1D and servicible goalie (sparks/mcbackup/campbell/mrazek/pickard/etc... that was absolutely STUPID)

4. Don't do stupid trades like a cost controlled asset in kadri for a bunch of freakin' nobodies

5. Preach Will>Skill; do not coddle the core and don't instill a sense of entitlement; logo on the front means more than name on the back mindset should be enforced from the get-go

6. Never ask your coach to walk back comments; if u don't like the coach change them or change the roster

7. Do not keep spending draft picks for rentals for the set of players who haven't shown they can play playoff hockey until they show they can play playoff hockey then you help them

8. Don't make trades for the sake of making trades and do not empty your cupboards.

9. Have an understanding when your team with the same core pieces shits the bed (ex: against habs); do not f***ing go out saying "We are running it back as we almost won the cup" (yes thats how they approached it); have the balls to make bold moves

10. More importantly have a FORESIGHT when re-building

How about.....stopping the Kadri stuff. And I liked Kadri.

As millions have said, he had to go, and he was the #3C here. Again......he was the #3C here. He was always going to be the #3C here, and was going to get less opportunities, and he didn't have a bottom 6 skillset. They tried it for 1 season, and it just didn't work

So why the whining still? We have seen years and years of it on here when 5 seconds of critical thinking would have brought everyone to this same above conclusion, except for the irrational Kadri fanboys.

 

[thusk]

Because the NHL is different than 20 years ago... building from the net out implies that the goalie and D are the stars or at least how they win the games... and I can't think of a single team in recent memory that fits that...

just the best NHL team last 5 season with Tampa Bay was built that way...

 

[hotpaws]

Don't blow your brains out signing an unneeded ufa and then think your star kids are going to take a haircut to leave you cap space to fill out the rest of your roster with non replacement level players .

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Hello all,

It's been some years since we heard "there will be pain" when we decided to rebuild. Given the chance to rebuild again, how would you go about it? What style of game would you want your team to play? I would personally go the route of building from the net out or at the very least, draft defenceman before focusing on forwards (like Chicago did with Keith and Seabrook) but what say you, fellow Leaf fans?

What are you talking about? Chicago didn't focus on defense, they drafted Keith and Seabrook yes, but they weren't the focus, nobody thought they would be what they became.

Kane and Towes were always the real focus

 

[conFABulator]

I would have not lined my re-build up with a pandemic that brought an unprecedented and unforseen flat cap era. In the seven years prior to the pandemic the cap rose and average of 4.5% per year.

If that trajectory had continued we would now be at a cap of $97M. The Leafs would be a cap team and others would not, unlike now where the flat cap has brought everyone to the same level basically.

We wouldn't have had to let players walk in UFA and we could have had more to spend on additions to our team. How much better does this team look with Hyman, Mikheyev and Pietrangelo? How much better do our core four contracts look if the cap was at $97M today?

How would you add to a core of:

Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Tavares
Hyman
Mikheyev
Knies
Robertson
Kampf

Pietrangelo
Rielly
Brodie
Liljegren

Woll

With ~$19M to spare. This is not excuses, it's fact. We had a plan that was based on the cap growing like it had EVERY OTHER year. We signed four expensive pieces with this plan. The world changed overnight and no NHL team was hurt as much by this as the Maple Leafs.

I think everyone should answer the question as if they were managing a rebuild that would have the cap grow 4.5% every year and then tell us how they would have pivoted once it suddenly stopped increasing.

 

[Jojalu]

just the best NHL team last 5 season with Tampa Bay was built that way...

Not really.

They drafted Stamkos, then Hedman, followed by Kucherov and Palat. That is 3 forwards who were crucial to their success before they drafted Vasi.

They then bombed and picked up Drouin, who they turned into Sergachev before finding gold in Point.

 

[REALTALK81]

What are you talking about? Chicago didn't focus on defense, they drafted Keith and Seabrook yes, but they weren't the focus, nobody thought they would be what they became.

Kane and Towes were always the real focus

I said draft defenceman before focusing on the forwards. By the time Kane and Toees were drafted, both Keith and Seabrook had already started to develop nicely.

 

[thusk]

Not really.

They drafted Stamkos, then Hedman, followed by Kucherov and Palat. That is 3 forwards who were crucial to their success before they drafted Vasi.

They then bombed and picked up Drouin, who they turned into Sergachev before finding gold in Point.

just for fun fun, who was tampa goalie before vasilevskiy? An other elite goaltender

 

[Jojalu]

just for fun fun, who was tampa goalie before vasilevskiy? An other elite goaltender

If you are talking about Bishop then yes he was pretty good with Tampa. For whatever reason they seemed to get the best out of him. St Louis and Ottawa gave him up for nothing and it worked out.

 

[egd27]

The rebuild was pretty much done by the Time Dubas arrived. They had already made the playoffs multiple times. Already passed the 100 point threshold. He didn't draft any of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly.

They were 2 years into the "rebuild" when Dubas took over. 2 years!!!!!

The rookie GM just had to "make a big splash" by signing JT. Screwed the salary structure and "addressed" a need that didn't exist.

It was nowhere near done and the continued first round exits are the result. No different than when Burke tried to shortcut things with the Kessel trade.

 

[conFABulator]

They were 2 years into the "rebuild" when Dubas took over. 2 years!!!!!

The rookie GM just had to "make a big splash" by signing JT. Screwed the salary structure and "addressed" a need that didn't exist.

It was nowhere near done and the continued first round exits are the result. No different than when Burke tried to shortcut things with the Kessel trade.

I already posted a more detailed one on this topic, so I won't go into as much detail here...

How can you assess the Tavares signing without any acknowledgement of the pandemic / flat cap that immediately followed?

 

[thusk]

If you are talking about Bishop then yes he was pretty good with Tampa. For whatever reason they seemed to get the best out of him. St Louis and Ottawa gave him up for nothing and it worked out.

in stl he had the same age than hildeby right now

the season he had been traded for conacher if i remembered, he had a sv % of 0.922 but ottawa had already anderson and lehner so they had no choice to move someone