How to get the WCOH to appeal to you?

[Xokkeu]

The West Indies is one of the most successful, beloved, and celebrated teams in world cricket history.

what country are they?

If the national federations would like to join together that's fine. This isn't that.

 

[Xokkeu]

This is probably the closest comparison. Would these microcountries be in competitions as single contries if this team did not exist? If not, then that's a major difference. And there is at least some historical meaning and common culture.

...which is also weird, as if they were celebrating colonial history.

Well the team was created when they weren't countries so that's one reason.

 

[Atas2000]

I'm not taking a shot at Europeans. Nationalism is meant to occur during international hockey. My surprise is at the lack of nationalism in North America.

How is it a surprise? It's partly being spoiled by the NHL. Europeans don't have their stars playing in front of them all year. they play in fornt of Americans who don't appreciate it enought it seems. And then America is a continent of immigrants now basically. There is less conection to the national culture and roots. Americans probably have a hard tie understanding why a Team Europe is no offence but a bore to most Europeans. There is no point to it. It's just a randomselection of players basically. If you push it further we could have the pond format like tournament with some captains drafting players from the pool of all available players. Fine, but most people wouldn't have a reason to cheer for any of those teams.

 

[Jon Riley]

Americans probably have a hard tie understanding why a Team Europe is no offence but a bore to most Europeans.

That's the point. I am not outraged about the creation of "team europe" I just wonder what the point of it is.
Are you scared that Slovakia or Switzerland (or any other team that would qualify for the tournament) would be too much of a pushover team? Fair enough*, I (partially**) disagree, but then why not just goin with 6 teams?
Why do you have to create two meaningless teams that basically just invalidate any claim of "internationality" and "best on best" of the tournament.
Go for six actual nations and give them the same possibility of choosing whichever player they think that would fit best and all of a sudden you have a perfectly legitimate best on best international tournament.
Have real nations competing under rules that are the same for all of them. It really is this easy to get a real meaningful tournament.

*fair enough for you that organise it, even if I obviously count nothing on the big scale, I would still prefer watching Switzerland in a group-stage at the world championship than watching the final of the WC, but that's just me.

** Switzerland and Slovakia and any other team would really be pushover teams with this playoff format with several matches between the teams.
If the format was the one used in the football tournaments, with just one elimination match each round, then I am less sure.
Of course most likely these teams would lose, but they already proved that the upsets are not that uncommon, after all.
And if you find boring the trap hockey, well I guess that is just your personal taste. I have never been fan of the showcases of personal skills, I'd rather watch a team that has a game plan, sticks to it, and work together to try to win the game. I will never find anything bad about lack of scoring. I like defense and I like organisation, but then again, it's just me.

 

[JackSlater]

How is it a surprise? It's partly being spoiled by the NHL. Europeans don't have their stars playing in front of them all year. they play in fornt of Americans who don't appreciate it enought it seems. And then America is a continent of immigrants now basically. There is less conection to the national culture and roots. Americans probably have a hard tie understanding why a Team Europe is no offence but a bore to most Europeans. There is no point to it. It's just a randomselection of players basically. If you push it further we could have the pond format like tournament with some captains drafting players from the pool of all available players. Fine, but most people wouldn't have a reason to cheer for any of those teams.

Perhaps, I am jut surprised. This idea would not have flown in the past, I suspect, so there is something else going on.

That's the point. I am not outraged about the creation of "team europe" I just wonder what the point of it is.
Are you scared that Slovakia or Switzerland (or any other team that would qualify for the tournament) would be too much of a pushover team? Fair enough*, I (partially**) disagree, but then why not just goin with 6 teams?
Why do you have to create two meaningless teams that basically just invalidate any claim of "internationality" and "best on best" of the tournament.
Go for six actual nations and give them the same possibility of choosing whichever player they think that would fit best and all of a sudden you have a perfectly legitimate best on best international tournament.
Have real nations competing under rules that are the same for all of them. It really is this easy to get a real meaningful tournament.

*fair enough for you that organise it, even if I obviously count nothing on the big scale, I would still prefer watching Switzerland in a group-stage at the world championship than watching the final of the WC, but that's just me.

** Switzerland and Slovakia and any other team would really be pushover teams with this playoff format with several matches between the teams.
If the format was the one used in the football tournaments, with just one elimination match each round, then I am less sure.
Of course most likely these teams would lose, but they already proved that the upsets are not that uncommon, after all.
And if you find boring the trap hockey, well I guess that is just your personal taste. I have never been fan of the showcases of personal skills, I'd rather watch a team that has a game plan, sticks to it, and work together to try to win the game. I will never find anything bad about lack of scoring. I like defense and I like organisation, but then again, it's just me.

They didn't just go with six because they wanted more NHLers involved. That is the primary reason the gimmick teams were used instead of national teams. I agree with your general points though for certain.

 

[likid]

For me this tournament have similar meaning as all friendly football matches in USA in Summer. So there are top teams playing, top players playing, stadiums are full, but is still only preparation for start of the season.

Similar here. Top countries are playing, top players will play but is still only preseason. And matches don't have much more meaning as friendly matches although matches will probably be sold-out. Players will still fight for winning this tournament but day after the final game they will forget about this tournament.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Im already more excited about this tournament than any Olympics or WHC's in the past decade or so. And i included WHC's because for us Finns that's generally been a big deal, it's a tradition where casual fans and people who normally don't watch hockey suddenly become huge fans for a couple of weeks and the whole nation gets together.

But as my interest in hockey has evolved in the past decade, more towards NHL and the best possible competition, i've felt like something's been missing in international tournaments.

WHC's are the tournament for smaller hockey nations to showcase where they're at, as well as players who are in need of a contract whether that be to the NHL or KHL. Needless to say this tournament isn't even close to best on best, so it's kind of "whatever" to me nowdays.

I've started to see this trend with the Olympics as well. A lot of great players don't seem that excited about it anymore, and tend to choose rest over playing. Overall the quality of hockey has also declined in Olympics, at least in my opinion.

But World Cup is where all my current interests come together. I get to see how players who play in the NHL look to start the season. There are hardly any big names missing, because everyone wants to participate, not only to be part of a best on best tournament, but also because it can be a big help to get your season started on the right track. I also very much like to see how the Euro team plays and to me it's fun to see players from nations that i wouldn't normally care to watch play in these type of tournaments, play for the same team.

Sure, the U23 NA team is very much a gimmick, but who honestly can say they wouldn't be excited watching these guys play ? They're going to be a completely different type of team than any other in this tournament, and will spice it up a lot.

Overall what im trying to say is, ultimately hockey for us fans is solely entertainment. And to me the entertainment value is through the roof here.

I guess the big argument is that some players won't feel like they're playing for their country, or that there's no real meaning, but i would argue that winning the World Cup of Hockey is one of the biggest accomplishments in todays game, and im sure players who win that will have a bunch of fun memories.

Wouldn't it be a story if the Euro team came together and beat everybody in this tournament ? I don't know about you guys, but if i was, say, Norwegian and Zuccarello scores the winning goal, i'd care less if he was the only Norwegian on that team. He did it for my country, against the best players in the world no less.

As long as winning the World Cup is seen as a big accomplishment, i don't care how gimmicky the tournament is.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I've started to see this trend with the Olympics as well. A lot of great players don't seem that excited about it anymore, and tend to choose rest over playing.

I'm pretty sure a lot more players dropped out of the WCH than the last Olympics.

And if Sweden comes in second, ask Erik Karlsson whether he feels more despondent about this event or the one where he threatened to sell his silver medal on eBay.

 

[Jablkon]

Im already more excited about this tournament than any Olympics or WHC's in the past decade or so. And i included WHC's because for us Finns that's generally been a big deal, it's a tradition where casual fans and people who normally don't watch hockey suddenly become huge fans for a couple of weeks and the whole nation gets together.

But as my interest in hockey has evolved in the past decade, more towards NHL and the best possible competition, i've felt like something's been missing in international tournaments.

WHC's are the tournament for smaller hockey nations to showcase where they're at, as well as players who are in need of a contract whether that be to the NHL or KHL. Needless to say this tournament isn't even close to best on best, so it's kind of "whatever" to me nowdays.

I've started to see this trend with the Olympics as well. A lot of great players don't seem that excited about it anymore, and tend to choose rest over playing. Overall the quality of hockey has also declined in Olympics, at least in my opinion.

But World Cup is where all my current interests come together. I get to see how players who play in the NHL look to start the season. There are hardly any big names missing, because everyone wants to participate, not only to be part of a best on best tournament, but also because it can be a big help to get your season started on the right track. I also very much like to see how the Euro team plays and to me it's fun to see players from nations that i wouldn't normally care to watch play in these type of tournaments, play for the same team.

Sure, the U23 NA team is very much a gimmick, but who honestly can say they wouldn't be excited watching these guys play ? They're going to be a completely different type of team than any other in this tournament, and will spice it up a lot.

Overall what im trying to say is, ultimately hockey for us fans is solely entertainment. And to me the entertainment value is through the roof here.

I guess the big argument is that some players won't feel like they're playing for their country, or that there's no real meaning, but i would argue that winning the World Cup of Hockey is one of the biggest accomplishments in todays game, and im sure players who win that will have a bunch of fun memories.

Wouldn't it be a story if the Euro team came together and beat everybody in this tournament ? I don't know about you guys, but if i was, say, Norwegian and Zuccarello scores the winning goal, i'd care less if he was the only Norwegian on that team. He did it for my country, against the best players in the world no less.

As long as winning the World Cup is seen as a big accomplishment, i don't care how gimmicky the tournament is.

Unfortunately we dont have so much feedback from fans from that nations who are represented in team Europe. Its even hard to evaluate from some swiss and slovak fans posts here whether they want their teams there or they would rather prefer this team Europe....

 

[Lepardi]

Off the top of my head - James, Paul, Curry, Leonard, Westbrook, Harden. I doubt you would ever see something like that from a European country, or if USA was legitimately challenged in basketball.

To make this comparison relevant, we'd first have to see a European country that's as dominant in a major European sport as USA is in basketball. USA are clear favorites in basketball even while missing all of those stars. No European nation could afford to be missing so many stars going into the European championships of soccer or basketball. Let alone the World Cup.

 

[zeke]

I'm pretty sure a lot more players dropped out of the WCH than the last Olympics.

nope.

many more misses for the Olympics.

 

[zeke]

If the national federations would like to join together that's fine. This isn't that.

Ok, Ryder Cup then.

 

[Jon Riley]

Its even hard to evaluate from some swiss and slovak fans posts here whether they want their teams there or they would rather prefer this team Europe....

I can just talk for myself, of course, but I would prefer to see my team earning the spot to this tournament through a qualification round.
Secondarily I would prefer to see another legit national team that earned the spot to this tournament through a qualification round.
If not possible I would prefer to see any of the two previous things using the IIHF ranking as the "qualification criteria".
If none of these were possible, I would prefer a 6 teams tournament.

Team Europe means really nothing to me. Even though I am a Swiss born in Italy currently living in Norway (and therefore I am as "european" as I can be) this whole idea gives me nothing at all.
No interest, no curiosity, nothing. Just the horrible feeling that a great opportunity is being missed and that this could be the beginning of something really awful.

 

[JackSlater]

nope.

many more misses for the Olympics.

The number of players missing is actually pretty close, not sure which is bigger. One tournament (Olympics) comes after months of hockey. The other comes after months of off season. A little strange that the number of players missing each tournament would be similar.

 

[xxxx]

I'm pretty sure a lot more players dropped out of the WCH than the last Olympics.

in all due and respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.

And if Sweden comes in second, ask Erik Karlsson whether he feels more despondent about this event or the one where he threatened to sell his silver medal on eBay.

And ask Henrik Sedin, who says "the World Cup is absolutely up there with the olympics for sure".

 

[Cursed Lemon]

nope.

many more misses for the Olympics.

yeah no

 

[Cursed Lemon]

in all due and respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.

And ask Henrik Sedin, who says "the World Cup is absolutely up there with the olympics for sure".

How a player actually reacted vs. an on-the-record statement from a player whose salary is paid by the supervising organization.

 

[Elvs]

And ask Henrik Sedin, who says "the World Cup is absolutely up there with the olympics for sure".

It's an NHL tournament. Henrik Sedin is employed by an NHL team. He is supposed to only say good things about the World Cup when reporters asks him about it.

For the same reason the players on "Team Europe" are only there because they are employed by the NHL. It's their job to be there. You can bet the league would take disciplinary action against them if they didn't show up, unless they are injured. The same way the league suspends players who doesn't want to play in the All Star game.

I mean, you can't seriously believe some of these players wants to play on Team Europe, when they are quite often declining invitations to play in the World Championship for their national teams. Say what you want about the World Championship, I promise you that Marian Gaborik winning the WC gold with Slovakia or Mark Streit winning the WC gold with Switzerland, means PLENTY more to them than winning the World Cup with Farce Europe.

 

[KingsFan7824]

How is it a surprise? It's partly being spoiled by the NHL. Europeans don't have their stars playing in front of them all year. they play in fornt of Americans who don't appreciate it enought it seems. And then America is a continent of immigrants now basically. There is less conection to the national culture and roots. Americans probably have a hard tie understanding why a Team Europe is no offence but a bore to most Europeans. There is no point to it. It's just a randomselection of players basically. If you push it further we could have the pond format like tournament with some captains drafting players from the pool of all available players. Fine, but most people wouldn't have a reason to cheer for any of those teams.

There's probably a lot to that. If Crosby and Kane were playing in Swedish and Finnish leagues every year, it would be a different perception.

Team Europe is certainly the oddest team. Canada and the US at least have their main team, just age restricted. Team Europe was to get more NHL players into the tournament made up by the NHL and NHLPA. We'll see what they do in the future with the teams and players. It could just be a one time thing. I'm sure Team Canada would want to be able to take McDavid if they wanted to next time. I'm sure Team USA could use an Eichel, Matthews, or Gaudreau. If Team Europe clearly doesn't work, I imagine they'll have some sort of qualifying games for a few countries.

I'd say everyone just needs to wait and see how it shakes out.

 

[zeke]

The number of players missing is actually pretty close, not sure which is bigger. One tournament (Olympics) comes after months of hockey. The other comes after months of off season. A little strange that the number of players missing each tournament would be similar.

more (and better) missed the Olympics.

But I agree with you - playing this kind of tournament in the middle of the season is ridiculous. No other major sports league would even consider it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's an NHL tournament. Henrik Sedin is employed by an NHL team. He is supposed to only say good things about the World Cup when reporters asks him about it.

For the same reason the players on "Team Europe" are only there because they are employed by the NHL. It's their job to be there. You can bet the league would take disciplinary action against them if they didn't show up, unless they are injured. The same way the league suspends players who doesn't want to play in the All Star game.

I mean, you can't seriously believe some of these players wants to play on Team Europe, when they are quite often declining invitations to play in the World Championship for their national teams. Say what you want about the World Championship, I promise you that Marian Gaborik winning the WC gold with Slovakia or Mark Streit winning the WC gold with Switzerland, means PLENTY more to them than winning the World Cup with Farce Europe.

Have you been watching any exhibition games? The intensity is crazy and the games don't even count. The players are excited about the World Cup and the game intensity levels are proving it!

As for team Europe... None of those players playing for their country would have a shot at a gold medal. Too much competition from other countries! From what I read and saw on tv, the entire team is excited to play for team Europe because they feel it's their best chance to win a gold medal than ever before! It just sucks so far for team Europe because they had to play team North America twice! That team is stacked with future (and current) NHL stars and they all can skate! Team North America's defense is way better than I thought it would be!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Anybody know what is the best site to purchase tickets? Stubhub, Ticketsnow, or any others?

 

[JackSlater]

It's an NHL tournament. Henrik Sedin is employed by an NHL team. He is supposed to only say good things about the World Cup when reporters asks him about it.

For the same reason the players on "Team Europe" are only there because they are employed by the NHL. It's their job to be there. You can bet the league would take disciplinary action against them if they didn't show up, unless they are injured. The same way the league suspends players who doesn't want to play in the All Star game.

I mean, you can't seriously believe some of these players wants to play on Team Europe, when they are quite often declining invitations to play in the World Championship for their national teams. Say what you want about the World Championship, I promise you that Marian Gaborik winning the WC gold with Slovakia or Mark Streit winning the WC gold with Switzerland, means PLENTY more to them than winning the World Cup with Farce Europe.

There is no evidence that players are punished for not participating. Hudler straight up refused, and he isn't being punished by the NHL. Bourque refused in the past and wasn't punished.

more (and better) missed the Olympics.

But I agree with you - playing this kind of tournament in the middle of the season is ridiculous. No other major sports league would even consider it.

Ahh, backtracking I see. I wonder how a similar number of players could miss both tournaments, despite one coming after months of hockey, and one coming off months of off season.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

more (and better) missed the Olympics.

Put together a list of players who dropped out immediately preceding either event.

Go on.

 

[Elvs]

Have you been watching any exhibition games? The intensity is crazy and the games don't even count. The players are excited about the World Cup and the game intensity levels are proving it!

As for team Europe... None of those players playing for their country would have a shot at a gold medal. Too much competition from other countries! From what I read and saw on tv, the entire team is excited to play for team Europe because they feel it's their best chance to win a gold medal than ever before! It just sucks so far for team Europe because they had to play team North America twice! That team is stacked with future (and current) NHL stars and they all can skate! Team North America's defense is way better than I thought it would be!

Yeah, I watched a bunch of them. Do you think the U.S. and Canada would go at it any less if the gimmick teams weren't involved? They'd still be playing with the same intensity.

As for Team North America, I don't care how exciting they are. It's wrong that North Americans were given a 2nd team to root for. Where is my Sweden B team?

As for Team Europe... Here are Mark Streit's comments when the format was announced:

"I don't like it at all. Not one thing about it. It's a nations tournament. You love playing for your country. It's supposed to be the top eight (countries). For players, you want to play for your team. That's the whole purpose of it. I don't know. I don't like it at all. There's supposed to be the top eight. Go with that. Whoever's in is in; whoever's not is not. This is…I don't know."

Do you think he's suddenly feeling the "European pride" now?

Do you think any player has ever said "I don't like it at all. Not one thing about it.", after being selected/invited to represent their country?