How to get the WCOH to appeal to you?

[JackSlater]

You sure don't mind asking the NHL to risk the assets they play millions of dollars to per year for the sake of your viewership.

Everyone wants something for free in this world.

Gimme gimme.. down with the rich!

mine mine

You're right, I don't mind wanting the NHL to release players, who want to participate, for at most 7 games for the every 300+ that they play in the NHL per four years. The vast majority of fans also want Olympic participation. Not everyone is blindly loyal to NHL owners I guess.

I'm more amazed that you apparently have no opinion on what the NHL does and simply want everyone to blindly accept whatever the NHL decides. If the NHL decided that your team was not profitable enough and thus wanted to move it, I suppose you would simply accept that without complaint. What loyalty you have to a league.

It's a preseason warmup tourney with as much meaning as a Prospects Tournament. I'm not going to complain about decent hockey in September but outside of the NHL allowing me to watch hockey a few weeks earlier, this tournament is a gimmick until all of the teams are actual nations.

Reasonable viewpoint. Can't begrudge people seeking a little early entertainment. Be careful though, some supporters of this tournament have turned to posting pictures of women in a strange effort to silence those who disagree. Pretty scary stuff.

 

[amitkedia]

In order to enjoy this tournament, I plan to cheer for my favorite players as opposed to the teams.

Alex Ovechkin
Patrick Kane
Jonathan Toews
Sidney Crosby
Sedin brothers

 

[Past Considerations]

Common sense talking to the average hockey fan not on these boards.

I noticed too that elsewhere the reception was better than here. Hence we can than make common sense conclusion that the more purists dislike and the average fans aka the fools Bettman is targeting love the gimmick teams.

I've yet to see a non-North American who likes the gimmick teams.

You need to head to the store and buy an upgraded sarcasm button if you thought I really wanted Lidstrom to come out retirement to skate with McDavid.

Well played "I was just joking" card.

My point being is that everyone cries national pride, but at the end of the day its just another tournament that most fans will forget about until the next one arrives.

Pretty much same logic: Stanley Cup finals are just yet another finals that most fans will forget about until the next ones arrive.

Again, the average hockey fan on the street could not pick Nathan MacKinnon out of a crowd nor can they name you past winners.

This was again based on the poll you conducted on the street with millions of not just North American fans?

Americans or Russians may not have to remember that Canada won, but they remember they didn't win themselves. That means it mattered. And at the same time you're apparently trying to make the point this tournament suddenly matters, a tournament that almost has no past history in its current form.

Sorry I like the idea of growing the game to more than diehard fans.

In United States. Clearly you don't care about growing it globally, and neither does NHL.

Didn't do either. My guess would be Switzerland and Slovenia which always put up a good fight, but are crap compared to Team Gimmick.

1/2 right.

ps. 2010 and 2014 Olympics:

United States 3 – 1 (1–0, 2–0, 0–1) Switzerland
Switzerland 2 – 3 (SO) (0–1, 2–1, 0–0, 0–0, 0/4–1/4) Canada
United States 2 – 0 (0–0, 0–0, 2–0) Switzerland
Sweden 1–0 (0–0, 0–0, 1–0) Switzerland
Switzerland 1–0 (1–0, 0–0, 0–0) Czech Republic

A crap team absolutely DESTROYED!

The other country which you did not figure out yet did even better, but had one blowout/throaway against USA.

No idea what you're babbling about here. The next Olympics will have KHL all-stars vs. AHL All-Stars assuming they are even allowed to go. Russia will win gold. Yippy!!!

Should USA and CAN be combined into a single team for this tournament? Yes or no?

Way too much effort on your part to just hate. Armchair GM to a T.

Look mum, I can post memes.

 

[Past Considerations]

And after all that serious tournament spiel you put together it results in the worst brand of hockey you may ever watch.

International hockey sucks balls. face the fact. Switzerland isn't good at it.. neither is Denmark. No one watches them play.

Why does international hockey have to be a charity case?
For the good of the game.. to grow the game they say.

The game hasn't grown for **** internationally in the last 20 years.
Slovakia is in worse shape. The Chec's are worse now than 20 years ago.

The Olympics hasn't grown international hockey one frigging Iota.

Risk injury and your livelyhood so hockey can gain 5 more swiss fans.. yay.

I don't see the world cup of badmington lining up to get into Canada to grow the game. Could name a hundred more sports.... Cricket, Rugby, Soccer..

The next time you post in this thread, are you again going to post same horse crap and again reduce the time period by 10 years?

 

[Past Considerations]

The NHL is doing their best not to make it any bigger World Wide. If I was from Swetzerland or Denmark I would be really pissed off not to even get a fair chance to be cinsidered a legit hockey country, and loose som interest in the sport. Really strange and short term, money making thinking that is bad for the sport of hockey in the long run, that´s obvious.

Since the World Championship is a "serious" tournament organized by an international organisation, with a real and legit ranking and qualifying system that give every team a fair chance, why not make it a World Championship a la soccer every fourth year where the NHL release the players instead of the olympics. Now that would be something!

Hockey needs a strong international organisation like FIFA in soccer. It´s really twisted when a single league can dictate all the rules and everything for everyone. In soccer (and most sports outside NA) everyone knows that international play is >> domestic leagues. In soccer the clubs have to release their players for every single international "friendly" game (as it´s called in soccer) all year long. It´s only in NA everything is all about the money and nothing about pride and actual competition between teams with a history and teams that actually mean somethig. A lot of these posts are simply mind blowing for non Americans.

In a perfect world yes. In a perfect world hockey would be #1 sport worldwide too. Comparison to soccer just fails because in soccer there is no single league that IS bigger than all the rest together and has been historically too. This is the sad way it is in niche sport hockey. And even as a niche sport it has managed to split itself practically into to two different disciplines (rink size).

 

[Past Considerations]

Yes it's just as focused on money with there tourney but Noone cares about how they don't have a best on best format.

How many teams don't get to try to qualify in soccer ? But don't 30 or so teams make the world cup in that .

But anyways I'm not gonna care if the nhl includes the gimmick teams until the nhl drops the Olympics

The World Cup itself is played when the major leagues are having off-seasons. Requesting players was about the qualifying games. 30 or so teams may make the final tournament but before that everyone of them have had to qualify in various continental qualifying tournaments.

 

[Xokkeu]

That´s what I mean. Even though soccer is just "as money" in the big domestic leagues and the Champions league, there´s still an even more powerfull international organisation (which isn´t exactly runned in a proper way lately byt thats another story) that keeps things a little more conservative if you wanna say and prevents single leagues or companies to let their financial interests affect or change the game too much. We would never see any gimmik teams there. Even new rules and techniques (camera judge and so on) they are very careful with which says a lot. They want to make money for the organisation off course, but just as important it seems to try keep the "soul" of the sport alive. The illusion if you wanna say. The reason why fans are getting nuts if their team win or loose, the reason why people care so much.

The only power FIFA has is in the players desire to play in its competitions. If the Germans treated FIFA competition the way that Canadians treat iihf competition FIFA would have just as little power.

 

[Xokkeu]

1)I don't think we should use the FIFA as an example how to run the event or events.

2)Soccer teams are not forced to release players yes there asked yes tons of pressure but its not forced on them.

3)A true World Cup in soccer would not be like soccer as we would see some 50-0 scores if not worse.

4)Soccer is just as money as hockey if not more so.

Soccer clubs have to release players for FIFA sanctioned events or they risk penalties and fines.

 

[Xokkeu]

You do know that would be the end of the World Championships.

I think a majority of hockey fans, in both sides of the Atlantic, would take a true legit best on best tournament every two years as opposed to the current situation.

 

[jason2020]

Soccer clubs have to release players for FIFA sanctioned events or they risk penalties and fines.

Yes in that's sense but as the same time many National teams will use lesser known players in some events as they don't want to put teams in a bad spot.

 

[jason2020]

I think a majority of hockey fans, in both sides of the Atlantic, would take a true legit best on best tournament every two years as opposed to the current situation.

That is one thing but some want is to have it like a world cup of soccer so teams like Mexico/Jamaica/England/Africa would be in it.

 

[Xokkeu]

That is one thing but some want is to have it like a world cup of soccer so teams like Mexico/Jamaica/England/Africa would be in it.

They'd have to qualify. Nobody in their right mind is suggesting Mexico get a team in the actual tournament.

 

[Past Considerations]

That is one thing but some want is to have it like a world cup of soccer so teams like Mexico/Jamaica/England/Africa would be in it.

Nothing technically stops them qualifying for WHCs/Olympics right now.

But it is a long way from Division III to to the final tournament:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Men's_World_Ice_Hockey_Championships#Division_I

 

[MrOT]

This circumstance with the gimmick teams has actually turned into a pretty interesting discussion about The non American view of sports, the culture and the systems in relation to the NA culture and system. Never seen this before actually. Actually nowhere...

 

[Do Make Say Think]

You're right, I don't mind wanting the NHL to release players, who want to participate, for at most 7 games for the every 300+ that they play in the NHL per four years. The vast majority of fans also want Olympic participation. Not everyone is blindly loyal to NHL owners I guess.

I'm more amazed that you apparently have no opinion on what the NHL does and simply want everyone to blindly accept whatever the NHL decides. If the NHL decided that your team was not profitable enough and thus wanted to move it, I suppose you would simply accept that without complaint. What loyalty you have to a league.

Ah the good ol' "if you can provide a rationale as to why they did it this way then you are an apologist" nonsense.

The reasoning behind the people who pay the players millions of dollars to play for their clubs not being ok with sending those players to play in a tournament without insurance is well known.

You seem to apologising for the IOC. What loyalty you have to a committee.

Appealing to sentiments does not equate to an argument. Familiarise yourself with the file and get back to us when you understand what you are talking about.

 

[jason2020]

Nothing technically stops them qualifying for WHCs/Olympics right now.

But is a long way from Division III to to the final tournament:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Men's_World_Ice_Hockey_Championships#Division_I

With qualifying you might get 2-4 weak teams not 12-16 as some want.

 

[jason2020]

This circumstance with the gimmick teams has actually turned into a pretty interesting discussion about The non American view of sports, the culture and the systems in relation to the NA culture and system. Never seen this before actually. Actually nowhere...

It does happen a fair bit.

 

[jason2020]

They'd have to qualify. Nobody in their right mind is suggesting Mexico get a team in the actual tournament.

But that is what some want a 30-40 team World Cup so teams like Mexico would not have to qualify.

 

[MrOT]

But that is what some want a 30-40 team World Cup so teams like Mexico would not have to qualify.

I doubt that

Who are you reffering to?

The question is rather: An ever ongoing qualifying process/system where all teams have to perform to stay in the top tournament/top league or to get there in the first place, or if we prefer closed leagues/closed tournaments a la NA where the league/tournament isn´t a part of a bigger situation and where the results only matters inside that closed group of teams and where the owner can come up with whatever ideas like inventing gimmick teams?

 

[KCC]

Cheering for NA because of McDavid and because it would be a cool story if they knocked off the better teams I guess. If he wasn't on I wouldn't care. Just being honest.

I just want the season to start.

 

[MrOT]

Ah the good ol' "if you can provide a rationale as to why they did it this way then you are an apologist" nonsense.

The reasoning behind the people who pay the players millions of dollars to play for their clubs not being ok with sending those players to play in a tournament without insurance is well known.

You seem to apologising for the IOC. What loyalty you have to a committee.

Appealing to sentiments does not equate to an argument. Familiarise yourself with the file and get back to us when you understand what you are talking about.

However you could loose your team that way, it happens from time to time due to financial reasons. Suddenly "your" franchaise moves on to a better market.

 

[jason2020]

I doubt that

Who are you reffering to?

The question is rather: An ever ongoing qualifying process/system where all teams have to perform to stay in the top tournament/top league or to get there in the first place, or if we prefer closed leagues/closed tournaments a la NA where the league/tournament isn´t a part of a bigger situation and where the results only matters inside that closed group of teams and where the owner can come up with whatever ideas like inventing gimmick teams?

There were some posts that said it should be 30-40 teams in the main tournament.

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

This discussion between elitists wanting fewer teams, 6 in my case, and those wanting 10-12. I really want this tournament to be a success for the NHL, team owners and NA sports writers. I think to make them happy a short 6 team tournament is better. Higher ratings etc. Can make it annual with more teams later on if they win over those I mentioned.

There will still be olympic hockey, IIHF world cup and junior world cup for the tier 2 and tier 3 teams to get their chance. I will always watch those three tournaments even if Sweden has a B-team.

 

[Xokkeu]

But that is what some want a 30-40 team World Cup so teams like Mexico would not have to qualify.

I have literally never seen anybody suggest a 30 team Hockey World Cup.

 

[JackSlater]

This circumstance with the gimmick teams has actually turned into a pretty interesting discussion about The non American view of sports, the culture and the systems in relation to the NA culture and system. Never seen this before actually. Actually nowhere...

I've observed that European fans tend to be more nationalistic than North American fans (not just Americans) but yeah, I didn't realize it was to this extent.

Ah the good ol' "if you can provide a rationale as to why they did it this way then you are an apologist" nonsense.

The reasoning behind the people who pay the players millions of dollars to play for their clubs not being ok with sending those players to play in a tournament without insurance is well known.

You seem to apologising for the IOC. What loyalty you have to a committee.

Appealing to sentiments does not equate to an argument. Familiarise yourself with the file and get back to us when you understand what you are talking about.

Wow, admirable job. I managed to be an IOC apologist without even mentioning the IOC. Pretty tremendous reading skill to read things that aren't even written. Even more impressive since I actively dislike the IOC and have posted as such for years. I'm not particularly attached to the Olympic hockey tournament, but I am attached to best on best hockey, which right now is only at the Olympics. I am also impressed that you seemingly ignore, or didn't know, that the issue of this tournament replacing Olympic participation predates the IOC claiming that it will not provide insurance. If the IOC doesn't provide insurance that is obviously an issue that the NHL cannot be blamed for, but the NHL has been trying to pull out of the Olympics for over a decade and has claimed that this tournament is part of that goal.

Once again, amazing that fans actually care about the NHL's profits. We aren't even talking about the NHL losing money, just not profiting from the Olympics. That has been the NHL's issue for over a decade. It's the strangest justification for the gimmicks I can imagine, since the gimmicks hardly relate to profit at all.

However you could loose your team that way, it happens from time to time due to financial reasons. Suddenly "your" franchaise moves on to a better market.

According to some the posts of some fans, if their favourite NHL team was moved simply because the NHL wasn't profiting from it - not even losing money, but simply not profiting - they would be perfectly fine with that. Tremendous loyalty to NHL owners.