How to get the WCOH to appeal to you?

[tarheelhockey]

Americans probably have a hard tie understanding why a Team Europe is no offence but a bore to most Europeans.

Americans don't have a hard time understanding this at all. It's a strange, somewhat pointless team that defeats the whole "national pride" angle which is supposed to be the whole point of the tournament.

The gimmick teams are a liability. It's great that some people find them "exciting", but they're by far the most negatively received aspect of the tournament. What could have been a bona fide best-on-best world championship became little more than a series of exhibitions when they decided to ignore national boundaries and play mix-n-match with the rosters.

 

[Elvs]

There is no evidence that players are punished for not participating. Hudler straight up refused, and he isn't being punished by the NHL. Bourque refused in the past and wasn't punished.

No, but players have been punished for not playing in the All Star Game. So I'm just assuming they could take action here as well if they want to. And Hudler has been in a schism with the Czech management for a couple of years now.

I just find it extremely hard to believe that no player wanted to turn Team Europe down. Especially after those remarks Mark Streit made.

 

[xxxx]

Anybody know what is the best site to purchase tickets? Stubhub, Ticketsnow, or any others?

http://www.ticketmaster.ca/World-Cup-of-Hockey-tickets/artist/2169045

 

[Elvs]

The gimmick teams are a liability. It's great that some people find them "exciting", but they're by far the most negatively received aspect of the tournament.

I've been a die hard follower of the NHL since 2005. I'd say inventing the gimmick teams are by far the dumbest thing the league has ever done since, BY A MILE.

Of course there's the half season lockout. But that has more to do with the league not doing anything, than the league doing something stupid.

I wasn't around when they introduced the 'glowing puck'. But I've seen highlights, and this seems to be about as gimmickly as that was.

 

[Habs Halifax]

http://www.ticketmaster.ca/World-Cup-of-Hockey-tickets/artist/2169045

Ticketmaster is pretty much sold out it appears. Only single seats left. I was wondering which site is better between Ticketsnow and Stubhub?

 

[JackSlater]

Americans don't have a hard time understanding this at all. It's a strange, somewhat pointless team that defeats the whole "national pride" angle which is supposed to be the whole point of the tournament.

The gimmick teams are a liability. It's great that some people find them "exciting", but they're by far the most negatively received aspect of the tournament. What could have been a bona fide best-on-best world championship became little more than a series of exhibitions when they decided to ignore national boundaries and play mix-n-match with the rosters.

Interestingly, a number of posters seem intent on claiming that national pride is not a significant aspect of this tournament or that it never was in previous Canada/World Cups.

No, but players have been punished for not playing in the All Star Game. So I'm just assuming they could take action here as well if they want to. And Hudler has been in a schism with the Czech management for a couple of years now.

I just find it extremely hard to believe that no player wanted to turn Team Europe down. Especially after those remarks Mark Streit made.

The fact remains that Hudler isn't being punished. Hertl pulled out with a minor injury, but I think I read that he will still make it to training camp taking place during the tournament. Bourque wasn't punished for skipping this tournament twice in the past. I detest this edition of the tournament and the gimmicks, but there isn't any evidence that players are forced to play. There is actually evidence to the contrary.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Im already more excited about this tournament than any Olympics or WHC's in the past decade or so. And i included WHC's because for us Finns that's generally been a big deal, it's a tradition where casual fans and people who normally don't watch hockey suddenly become huge fans for a couple of weeks and the whole nation gets together.

But as my interest in hockey has evolved in the past decade, more towards NHL and the best possible competition, i've felt like something's been missing in international tournaments.

WHC's are the tournament for smaller hockey nations to showcase where they're at, as well as players who are in need of a contract whether that be to the NHL or KHL. Needless to say this tournament isn't even close to best on best, so it's kind of "whatever" to me nowdays.

I've started to see this trend with the Olympics as well. A lot of great players don't seem that excited about it anymore, and tend to choose rest over playing. Overall the quality of hockey has also declined in Olympics, at least in my opinion.

But World Cup is where all my current interests come together. I get to see how players who play in the NHL look to start the season. There are hardly any big names missing, because everyone wants to participate, not only to be part of a best on best tournament, but also because it can be a big help to get your season started on the right track. I also very much like to see how the Euro team plays and to me it's fun to see players from nations that i wouldn't normally care to watch play in these type of tournaments, play for the same team.

Sure, the U23 NA team is very much a gimmick, but who honestly can say they wouldn't be excited watching these guys play ? They're going to be a completely different type of team than any other in this tournament, and will spice it up a lot.

Overall what im trying to say is, ultimately hockey for us fans is solely entertainment. And to me the entertainment value is through the roof here.

I guess the big argument is that some players won't feel like they're playing for their country, or that there's no real meaning, but i would argue that winning the World Cup of Hockey is one of the biggest accomplishments in todays game, and im sure players who win that will have a bunch of fun memories.

Wouldn't it be a story if the Euro team came together and beat everybody in this tournament ? I don't know about you guys, but if i was, say, Norwegian and Zuccarello scores the winning goal, i'd care less if he was the only Norwegian on that team. He did it for my country, against the best players in the world no less.

As long as winning the World Cup is seen as a big accomplishment, i don't care how gimmicky the tournament is.

Thanks for posting. I don't like the gimmick teams but I've said all along that I'll keep an open mind and acknowledge that there are some positives to this format and it will still be interesting to watch. Good to see more and more people coming out of the woodwork to confirm this. I still think there are more people unhappy than happy about this format but that's life. And you're right, the NA team is fun to watch isn't it.

It's an NHL tournament. Henrik Sedin is employed by an NHL team. He is supposed to only say good things about the World Cup when reporters asks him about it.

For the same reason the players on "Team Europe" are only there because they are employed by the NHL. It's their job to be there. You can bet the league would take disciplinary action against them if they didn't show up, unless they are injured. The same way the league suspends players who doesn't want to play in the All Star game.

I mean, you can't seriously believe some of these players wants to play on Team Europe, when they are quite often declining invitations to play in the World Championship for their national teams. Say what you want about the World Championship, I promise you that Marian Gaborik winning the WC gold with Slovakia or Mark Streit winning the WC gold with Switzerland, means PLENTY more to them than winning the World Cup with Farce Europe.

So every time a player says something negative about the World Cup we're supposed to take it seriously but whenever a player says something positive, it means nothing. Got it. I've heard it many times before, I don't believe it and the players do seem very engaged but whatever you say.

I've been a die hard follower of the NHL since 2005. I'd say inventing the gimmick teams are by far the dumbest thing the league has ever done since, BY A MILE.

Of course there's the half season lockout. But that has more to do with the league not doing anything, than the league doing something stupid.

I wasn't around when they introduced the 'glowing puck'. But I've seen highlights, and this seems to be about as gimmickly as that was.

IIRC that wasn't the NHL, that was FOX TV who figured they'd do everything in their power to make sure the US fans new to hockey knew where the puck was at any given time. Here in Canada we and and then some more.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Americans don't have a hard time understanding this at all. It's a strange, somewhat pointless team that defeats the whole "national pride" angle which is supposed to be the whole point of the tournament.

The gimmick teams are a liability. It's great that some people find them "exciting", but they're by far the most negatively received aspect of the tournament. What could have been a bona fide best-on-best world championship became little more than a series of exhibitions when they decided to ignore national boundaries and play mix-n-match with the rosters.

The NHL/World Cup is a business and they are trying to make all the games exciting to watch for the fans. Personally, I get the critics about team North America and Team Europe but I also prefer to watch these teams try to beat the "top 6" countries than the other countries that get blown out most of the time.

Team North America may be the best story to come out of this World Cup and IMO that's not a bad thing at all. It's hockey and it's going to be very competitive with the best hockey players in the world! Probably the most competitive hockey tournament ever!

 

[Claypool]

People must be angry this tournament will be a success.

 

[zeke]

Ahh, backtracking I see. I wonder how a similar number of players could miss both tournaments, despite one coming after months of hockey, and one coming off months of off season.

backtracking? heh.

Both are true. More players missed the Olympics. Playing during the middle of a season is ridiculous. both.

And if you think players just vacation during the offseason, you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

[Elvs]

So every time a player says something negative about the World Cup we're supposed to take it seriously but whenever a player says something positive, it means nothing. Got it. I've heard it many times before, I don't believe it and the players do seem very engaged but whatever you say.

No, but when someone says something negatively (which won't happen anyway) and has nothing to gain from it, you'd know they'd be speaking their mind. If someone talks positively about an event created by his supervising organization, there's always a reason to take things with a grain of salt. And so, in the case of the World Cup, I'd read more into the comments made by former players.

I wouldn't go out in public and talk **** about my workplace, even if I hated it. And I don't think you would either.

Edit:

You could do a pre-game interview with Henrik Sedin before game 43 of the regular season and ask if he is excited. You already know he's not gonna say "no".

I doubt Henrik Sedin is truly behing honest when he's saying the World Cup is right up there with the Olympics. But I'm not saying he's not excited about the World Cup, he probably is. I'm saying the players on Team Europe aren't excited however.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No, but when someone says something negatively (which won't happen anyway) and has nothing to gain from it, you'd know they'd be speaking their mind. If someone talks positively about an event created by his supervising organization, there's always a reason to take things with a grain of salt. And so, in the case of the World Cup, I'd read more into the comments made my former players.

I wouldn't go out in public and talk **** about my workplace, even if I hated it. And I don't think you would either.

Edit:

You could do a pre-game interview with Henrik Sedin before game 43 of the regular season and ask if he is excited. You already know he's not gonna say "no".

I doubt Henrik Sedin is truly behing honest when he's saying the World Cup is right up there with the Olympics. But I'm not saying he's not excited about the World Cup, he probably is. I'm saying the players on Team Europe aren't excited however.

Fair enough - it's always wise to put thing in context. Sometimes though people have a bias which prevents them from doing so objectively and they end up giving some things too much weight and others too little. From what I've seen here, the people who hate this tournament are exaggerating this factor and doing exactly what I said - dismissing any positive comments from players as if they're nothing more than stooges and anything good they say about the World Cup can't possibly be sincere.

The games speak for themselves IMO, it seems pretty obvious the players are pretty passionate about this. Then again some people have vowed not to watch so I guess they can't possibly understand (not saying you're one of those, I have no idea if you're watching or not).

 

[JackSlater]

backtracking? heh.

Both are true. More players missed the Olympics. Playing during the middle of a season is ridiculous. both.

And if you think players just vacation during the offseason, you don't really know what you're talking about.

Did more players miss the Olympics? I haven't seen the list. It is very close, and it remains quite interesting that the number of players missing is similar even thought the pool of players is generally in better health right now than it was prior to the 2014 Olympics.

 

[zeke]

Did more players miss the Olympics? I haven't seen the list. It is very close, and it remains quite interesting that the number of players missing is similar even thought the pool of players is generally in better health right now than it was prior to the 2014 Olympics.

why is it interesting? what do you think players do in the offseason? heck, many of them even put of surgeries until the offseason. I think Callahan did that.


anyways:



2014 Misses

S.Stamkos
H.Sedin
M.Koivu
M.Gaborik
J.Franzen
V.Filppula
T.Hertl
T.Vokoun
L.Visnovsky
P.Rinne
S.Koivu
V.Sobotka


vs.

2016 misses

J.Benn
H.Zetterberg
D.Keith
A.Steen
D.Krejci
J.Carter
S.Monahan
T.Hertl
R.Callahan
N.Kronwall
R.Gudas
R.Rakell
R.Lehner


though I'm probably missing a bunch, tbh.

 

[JackSlater]

why is it interesting? what do you think players do in the offseason? heck, many of them even put of surgeries until the offseason. I think Callahan did that.


anyways:



2014 Misses

S.Stamkos
H.Sedin
M.Koivu
M.Gaborik
J.Franzen
V.Filppula
T.Hertl
T.Vokoun
L.Visnovsky
P.Rinne
S.Koivu
V.Sobotka


vs.

2016 misses

J.Benn
H.Zetterberg
D.Keith
A.Steen
D.Krejci
J.Carter
S.Monahan
T.Hertl
R.Callahan
N.Kronwall
R.Gudas
R.Rakell
R.Lehner


though I'm probably missing a bunch, tbh.

So you listed more players in 2016 (should include Hudler who refused) than in 2014. There might be more that missed in 2014 though, can't remember at the moment. Anyway, it looks strange when more (or basically the same amount) players miss a tournament after the off season, when they can rehab injuries and train for the new season, than miss a tournament after half of the NHL season is over and so many players have nagging injuries.

I don't even think this is a big factor against the World Cup at all, as I think this is a good time to hold the tournament, but it does seem that players are more willing to miss this tournament than they are the Olympics.

 

[Xokkeu]

Ok, Ryder Cup then.

If all the Federation's agree to it then fine. I won't have any passion for it, but I won't complain if USA Hockey, Hockey Canada, Finland, Sweden, Russia etc all agree.

 

[Xokkeu]

Ticketmaster is pretty much sold out it appears. Only single seats left. I was wondering which site is better between Ticketsnow and Stubhub?

stubhub

 

[The CyNick]

Americans don't have a hard time understanding this at all. It's a strange, somewhat pointless team that defeats the whole "national pride" angle which is supposed to be the whole point of the tournament.

The gimmick teams are a liability. It's great that some people find them "exciting", but they're by far the most negatively received aspect of the tournament. What could have been a bona fide best-on-best world championship became little more than a series of exhibitions when they decided to ignore national boundaries and play mix-n-match with the rosters.

They didn't ignore boundaries at all. They are actually clearly defined. Team North America must be from....you guessed it, North America. And Team Europe I'll leave as a take home assignment.

My feeling is you had two options. Either you do a 6 team tourny and exclude about 40 NHLPA members from participating. Or you do what they did and create some buzz. For me the NA23 team has been the most interesting aspect of the tournament.

The people who are from the countries that make up Team Europe should feel good they don't have to see their respective countries be an afterthought in a tournament like this. Germany and Slovakia were a combined 0-6 and minus 20 at the last World Cup of Hockey. Team NA23 and Europe may also go 0-6 this year, but they should be more competitive. My guess is a team NA23 vs Europe game does a larger gate and larger TV audience than Slovakia vs Germany would. As a fan of the free market, I would say the public has spoken on the issue.

Americans and Europeans should easily understand the concept of team Europe. Just look to the Ryder Cup in good. Any single European country would likely get beat badly by the US if the format was all individual countries. Instead they came up with a way too showcase international golf in a best on best format and make it as competitive as possible. Even though the Euros don't just represent their own country, they seem to be pretty stoked to win it.

 

[The CyNick]

People must be angry this tournament will be a success.

The people on forums like this won't admit it's already been a success based on ticket sales and sponsorship dollars. They will just say "oh dumb fans in Toronto will buy anything" and ignore that QBC was sold out for an exhibition game.

 

[The CyNick]

That's the point. I am not outraged about the creation of "team europe" I just wonder what the point of it is.
Are you scared that Slovakia or Switzerland (or any other team that would qualify for the tournament) would be too much of a pushover team? Fair enough*, I (partially**) disagree, but then why not just goin with 6 teams?
Why do you have to create two meaningless teams that basically just invalidate any claim of "internationality" and "best on best" of the tournament.
Go for six actual nations and give them the same possibility of choosing whichever player they think that would fit best and all of a sudden you have a perfectly legitimate best on best international tournament.
Have real nations competing under rules that are the same for all of them. It really is this easy to get a real meaningful tournament.

*fair enough for you that organise it, even if I obviously count nothing on the big scale, I would still prefer watching Switzerland in a group-stage at the world championship than watching the final of the WC, but that's just me.

** Switzerland and Slovakia and any other team would really be pushover teams with this playoff format with several matches between the teams.
If the format was the one used in the football tournaments, with just one elimination match each round, then I am less sure.
Of course most likely these teams would lose, but they already proved that the upsets are not that uncommon, after all.
And if you find boring the trap hockey, well I guess that is just your personal taste. I have never been fan of the showcases of personal skills, I'd rather watch a team that has a game plan, sticks to it, and work together to try to win the game. I will never find anything bad about lack of scoring. I like defense and I like organisation, but then again, it's just me.

You include team Europe so that guys like Kopitar and Chara get to participate. They are stars in the league that play for weak nations. It's nice to include them without having 40 players nobody has ever heard of our will ever hear after the tournament.

For NA23 its a great way to showcase some of the amazing young talent to a national audience.

 

[Elvs]

The people on forums like this won't admit it's already been a success based on ticket sales and sponsorship dollars. They will just say "oh dumb fans in Toronto will buy anything" and ignore that QBC was sold out for an exhibition game.

I never thought it wouldn't be a success. But it'd still be a success without the gimmick teams.

You include team Europe so that guys like Kopitar and Chara get to participate. They are stars in the league that play for weak nations. It's nice to include them without having 40 players nobody has ever heard of our will ever hear after the tournament.

For NA23 its a great way to showcase some of the amazing young talent to a national audience.

The next two nations in line would be Switzerland and Slovakia. So Chara would still be there. And both those nations can still fill half their rosters with NHL'ers.

 

[Xokkeu]

You include team Europe so that guys like Kopitar and Chara get to participate. They are stars in the league that play for weak nations. It's nice to include them without having 40 players nobody has ever heard of our will ever hear after the tournament.

For NA23 its a great way to showcase some of the amazing young talent to a national audience.

Just call it an all star game and be done with it.

 

[Seanaconda]

Just call it an all star game and be done with it.

You can't because it's not being played like an Allstar game.(not trying) Plus you actually have the nation's included. But anyways all these gimmicks won't be gimmicks if this is successfull over a few tournaments.

Everything new starts out as a gimmick.

 

[Claypool]

But it'd still be a success without the gimmick teams.

Probably. But if you're the NHL, you want players like McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Kopitar, etc. to have highlights on ESPN. The NHL would rather have this tournament be a success with Team NA and Team Europe than without. That much is certain.

 

[Xokkeu]

You can't because it's not being played like an Allstar game.(not trying) Plus you actually have the nation's included. But anyways all these gimmicks won't be gimmicks if this is successfull over a few tournaments.

Everything new starts out as a gimmick.

Your only qualification is having the best players. Just gather the best 150 players, divide them up in 8 teams and we can give them random jerseys. Team Canada, Team USA, Team Russia, Team China(bigger market than 5million Finland), Team Brazil, Team Japan (to get China a real rival), Team Argentina (for Brazil), Team Ukraine (just to make the Russians mad )

There would be better players there than this tournament and even more people's nations represented. If Team USA gets first pick in the draft I hope we pick Crosby, just so he can't score against us.