Speculation: How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

[mike14]

The only player Rangers obsess more about after the fact than Dubinsky is Potvin, but Dubinsky is catching up.

Sean Avery feels slighted by your oversight

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I will not deny that Dubinsky didn't have those habits in the defensive zone, but I don't think you meant to put the double negative in there. He didn't really have those habits on D.

It's one thing to force the play in your own zone, especially when you are a key offensive player for a poor offensive team. Dubinsky was inconsistent in his coverage in his own end. The poor plays he made in the offensive are just an example of a player who wasn't heady in any zone.

To me, Dubinsky just isnt in the class of guys who arent good enough for Selke's but good enough to get votes. Dubinsky has never received a vote, so it's not like I'm making stuff up like you and some others have asserted.

He was Torts' go-to guy in defensive draws and he wasn't that bad at it, but identifying coverage in the neutral or defensive zone is an any I never considered Dubinsky "good" at.

Again, he was good along the boards, about average on d-zone draws and blocked shots. He wasnt a smart player when it came to coverage.

Anyway I've derailed the thread enough. The current Rangers are a mess and there isn't anything Torts or Dubinsky would do to change that.

 

[Tawnos]

Again, not being good enough for a Selke doesn't make a player a bad defensive player.

Anyway, this all started because of a discussion about Rangers drafting to build around Lundqvist. D and two-way forwards. Any team will look bad when their goalie falters. Just look at Vancouver in the SCF a few years back. But a team constructed in this manner will look even worse.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Nobody likes their Drill Sergeant or Drill Instructor when they're in Basic/Boot Camp.

But you always remember them, and if you're humble, you thank them for whipping you into shape.

I'm pretty shocked at all the regression. Everybody hated Keenan but he kept them in line, and that was a veteran team.

My beef with Torts was two-fold: he wasnt an offensive tactician and he was an arrogant jerk even in defeat. I dont think the current team is any better or worse with him here.

 

[Machinehead]

Sean Avery feels slighted by your oversight

He's a distant 3rd. Potvin has his own chant and Dubinsky comes up in literally every thread.

 

[True Blue]

It seems as if all of your evaluations are based on some unrealistic paragon of what a two-way forward is. No one is saying these guys are Pavel Datsyuk or Patrice Bergeron or even Jere Lehtinen. Not every two way player needs to be a Selke candidate to be a good one.

I agree. The assesments of Dubinky and Stepan are odd to say the least. It is like the guy who only counts success in the amount of SCF that a team makes.

 

[True Blue]

My beef with Torts was two-fold: he wasnt an offensive tactician and he was an arrogant jerk even in defeat. I dont think the current team is any better or worse with him here.

Sort of hard to be an offensive tactician when you are dealt with playes who are not the most talented offensively. He looked plenty tactical when he won the Cup in TB. Just like AV looked like quite the tactician when he had the Sedins playing on his top line.

Torts did the one thing that AV has not done to date. He made the most with what he had and he adopted his coaching philosophy to deal with what he was dealt with.

 

[Tawnos]

Torts did the one thing that AV has not done to date. He made the most with what he had and he adopted his coaching philosophy to deal with what he was dealt with.

Still, that took Tortorella more than a year to accomplish.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

He's a distant 3rd. Potvin has his own chant and Dubinsky comes up in literally every thread.

Because he's now playing like a guy who should be wearing a C in CBJ while the guy we got for him is playing like he doesn't give a **** about what happens out there. And Nash was supposed to be a stud. Instead he sucks, and he's bringing the whole good thing we had going down with him.

 

[smoneil]

I stop liking a player when they suck. Dubinsky sucked. I know it's rough for the people who bought jersey's. It happens.

Swing and a miss. I have never actually owned any Rangers jerseys (grew up poor and in grad school now. Never had the disposable income).

Dubinsky never sucked. He had a bad year offensively (his only bad year offensively), but his D and physicality was as good as ever.

He held out. I know it's rough for people who take things like that personally due to some misguided notion that the players owe them (personally) something. It happens. But most people don't let it blind them to reality.

 

[smoneil]

He's a distant 3rd. Potvin has his own chant and Dubinsky comes up in literally every thread.

In fairness, he's usually brought up by those who STILL feel the need to make stuff up about him to make themselves feel better about being wrong about that being one (aberration) down year.

The people who hated Avery, Prucha, Redden, Gomez, Drury, etc--they tend to let it go once the player is gone. The Dubi-hating crowd? They STILL throw his name into threads where it doesn't belong.

For the people who hated him--he's gone. You won. Huzzah. Break out the punch and pie. And then let it go, already. He's somebody else's "problem." I've said it more than once. When those folks stop re-writing history, I'll stop setting the record straight.

 

[aufheben]

In fairness, he's usually brought up by those who STILL feel the need to make stuff up about him to make themselves feel better about being wrong about that being one (aberration) down year.

The people who hated Avery, Prucha, Redden, Gomez, Drury, etc--they tend to let it go once the player is gone. The Dubi-hating crowd? They STILL throw his name into threads where it doesn't belong.

For the people who hated him--he's gone. You won. Huzzah. Break out the punch and pie. And then let it go, already. He's somebody else's "problem." I've said it more than once. When those folks stop re-writing history, I'll stop setting the record straight.

I can't be the only one who read this in Tom Servo's voice. Continue.

Btw, yeah Stepan's not Jere Lehtinen, but he is good defensively.

 

[Cassano]

Swing and a miss. I have never actually owned any Rangers jerseys (grew up poor and in grad school now. Never had the disposable income).

Dubinsky never sucked. He had a bad year offensively (his only bad year offensively), but his D and physicality was as good as ever.

He held out. I know it's rough for people who take things like that personally due to some misguided notion that the players owe them (personally) something. It happens. But most people don't let it blind them to reality.

Absolutely correct. Despite apparently 'sucking' in his last season here, he still had the 2nd highest Corsi rating, while being put in a defensive role. Yes, Dubinsky did have a career low in 34 points that year, but he also started more shifts in the defensive zone (41%) than any other point in his career. Only Boyle, Fedotenko and Prust had worse offensive zone starting time. Dubinsky, even in his last season with the team was an integral part of the Rangers puck advancement game, which has been a characteristic flaw with the team since his departure.

It shouldn't really be that much of a surprise that his PPG rose dramatically with more offensive zone starts with the Blue Jackets. He's been on pace for 60 pt/82 GP while maintaining his ability in helping with a large shot differential in favour of his team whenever he's on the ice.

You can also look at what happened to a guy like Callahan without Dubinsky on his line. His play has only been regressing since they were split apart early in 2011-12.

 

[Clausewitz]

You can also look at what happened to a guy like Callahan without Dubinsky on his line. His play has only been regressing since they were split apart early in 2011-12.

Exactly how I've felt.

 

[Pizza]

A Classic fail move by a franchise and it's fans that will never understand what builds a culture of winning.

It's sad as hell how predictable this was.

So many of you begged for this....now choke on it.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Swing and a miss. I have never actually owned any Rangers jerseys (grew up poor and in grad school now. Never had the disposable income).

Dubinsky never sucked. He had a bad year offensively (his only bad year offensively), but his D and physicality was as good as ever.

He held out. I know it's rough for people who take things like that personally due to some misguided notion that the players owe them (personally) something. It happens. But most people don't let it blind them to reality.

Sorry about growing up poor. But congrats on being in Grad school. I'm taking my Christmas lights down on January 2. There, now we both provided useless and irrelevant information in this discussion.

I like the "he never sucked...he had a bad year offensively" part.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Absolutely correct. Despite apparently 'sucking' in his last season here, he still had the 2nd highest Corsi rating, while being put in a defensive role. Yes, Dubinsky did have a career low in 34 points that year, but he also started more shifts in the defensive zone (41%) than any other point in his career. Only Boyle, Fedotenko and Prust had worse offensive zone starting time. Dubinsky, even in his last season with the team was an integral part of the Rangers puck advancement game, which has been a characteristic flaw with the team since his departure.

It shouldn't really be that much of a surprise that his PPG rose dramatically with more offensive zone starts with the Blue Jackets. He's been on pace for 60 pt/82 GP while maintaining his ability in helping with a large shot differential in favour of his team whenever he's on the ice.

You can also look at what happened to a guy like Callahan without Dubinsky on his line. His play has only been regressing since they were split apart early in 2011-12.

Dubinsky played himself off top minutes by being terrible to start the 2012 season. He played on the 3rd and 4th line most of the season because he was being outproduced by other players.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

In fairness, he's usually brought up by those who STILL feel the need to make stuff up about him to make themselves feel better about being wrong about that being one (aberration) down year.

The people who hated Avery, Prucha, Redden, Gomez, Drury, etc--they tend to let it go once the player is gone. The Dubi-hating crowd? They STILL throw his name into threads where it doesn't belong.

For the people who hated him--he's gone. You won. Huzzah. Break out the punch and pie. And then let it go, already. He's somebody else's "problem." I've said it more than once. When those folks stop re-writing history, I'll stop setting the record straight.

Nobody hated him. Just because people identify shortcomings in somebody's game, doesnt mean he's hated.

Dubinsky was traded because of Dubinsky. There's really no other explanation needed. What record are you trying to set straight? He had a career-worst season the first season of an extended contract. If he produced like he did the previous two seasons, he would have been just as untouchable as Stepan or McDonagh

He was the team's best player in 2011, was rewarded with a very significant contract, and came back the next year and was terrible. He was benched and demoted multiple times.

You act like there was a witch hunt after Dubinsky. Please. Everybody loved what he brought and he was a fan favorite. But he got spoiled, his effort dipped and the stats and demotions back it up.

Dubinsky's linemates in 2012 were Brian Boyle, Brandon Prust, John Mitchell and Mike Rupp. That wasn't part of the contract extension in the 2011 offseason.

I guess I'm making that stuff up too.

 

[Nightshift]

I can't find the actually numbers ATM, but I remember Dubinsky getting next to no power play time in his last season here. He had 0 PP goals. I could never understand it on a team with so little talent. It seemed to be out of nothing more then spite.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I can't find the actually numbers ATM, but I remember Dubinsky getting next to no power play time in his last season here. He had 0 PP goals. I could never understand it on a team with so little talent. It seemed to be out of nothing more then spite.

Duby said his relationship with Torts broke down a long time before the trade.

 

[True Blue]

Dubinsky was traded because of Dubinsky.

You are making it sound like he was discarded. Dubinsky was traded because that is who Columbus wanted. And rightly so.

 

[RangersHank*]

He's a distant 3rd. Potvin has his own chant and Dubinsky comes up in literally every thread.

Dubinsky was noticeable ever shift and he was a big part of the team whether people admit it or not. Lost Dubinsky and the forechecking took a big blow

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You act like there was a witch hunt after Dubinsky. Please. Everybody loved what he brought and he was a fan favorite. But he got spoiled, his effort dipped and the stats and demotions back it up..

While I dont completely disagree with you, I think your argument looks like pure crap when the Rangers traded Dubinsky and brought in players that couldnt match a fraction of Dubinsky's intensity on his worst day.

 

[RangersHank*]

He's a distant 3rd. Potvin has his own chant and Dubinsky comes up in literally every thread.

Nobody hated him. Just because people identify shortcomings in somebody's game, doesnt mean he's hated.

Dubinsky was traded because of Dubinsky. There's really no other explanation needed. What record are you trying to set straight? He had a career-worst season the first season of an extended contract. If he produced like he did the previous two seasons, he would have been just as untouchable as Stepan or McDonagh

He was the team's best player in 2011, was rewarded with a very significant contract, and came back the next year and was terrible. He was benched and demoted multiple times.

You act like there was a witch hunt after Dubinsky. Please. Everybody loved what he brought and he was a fan favorite. But he got spoiled, his effort dipped and the stats and demotions back it up.

Dubinsky's linemates in 2012 were Brian Boyle, Brandon Prust, John Mitchell and Mike Rupp. That wasn't part of the contract extension in the 2011 offseason.

I guess I'm making that stuff up too.

Dubinsky was moved because Columbus wanted him and rightfully so, they won that deal. We traded hard work for inconsistency and actually regressed since then but youre ******** on Dubinsky? I'll take Dubi at 4.5 over Nash at 7.8 just because he brings alot more in each end of the ice than Nash does and thats what wins hockey games. Dubinsky was noticeable on the ice even with a bad season and you cant deny that. He did everything and if youre gonna kill him for not scoring enough then you better kill the whole team because the team didnt either. I'll take the hard work with all the flaws over the goal scorer with all the flaws because hard work was the reason why the 11-12 season happened and Dubi was a big part of it whether you like it or not.

Dubi wasnt the greatest or the smartest but he WAS a good role player who played his role well and helped us out. The team hasnt looked the same without him. Trade for Nash and Brassard and expect to win a cup? Thats a demented way of looking at things. Kids who have been together their entire career and just break them up after a 109 point ECF season? Its sad.

 

[Cassano]

Dubinsky played himself off top minutes by being terrible to start the 2012 season. He played on the 3rd and 4th line most of the season because he was being outproduced by other players.

Dubinsky was still 1st amongst NYR LWers in TOI/PG that year. Obviously down from the season before because Hagelin emerged into a top 6 player. His play didn't regress, he was simply put in a role not to put up significant point totals. The Rangers bottom 6 puck movement game would've been dreadful without him.