Speculation: How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

[smoneil]

Nobody hated him. Just because people identify shortcomings in somebody's game, doesnt mean he's hated.

Dubinsky was traded because of Dubinsky. There's really no other explanation needed. What record are you trying to set straight? He had a career-worst season the first season of an extended contract. If he produced like he did the previous two seasons, he would have been just as untouchable as Stepan or McDonagh

He was the team's best player in 2011, was rewarded with a very significant contract, and came back the next year and was terrible. He was benched and demoted multiple times.

You act like there was a witch hunt after Dubinsky. Please. Everybody loved what he brought and he was a fan favorite. But he got spoiled, his effort dipped and the stats and demotions back it up.

Dubinsky's linemates in 2012 were Brian Boyle, Brandon Prust, John Mitchell and Mike Rupp. That wasn't part of the contract extension in the 2011 offseason.

I guess I'm making that stuff up too.

See, you say things like the first bolded, and then you follow it up with crap like the 2nd bolded. Again, you had a string of posts listing things I don't disagree with.

-Dubinsky's play in his last year here made him available (while fans wanted to, management had no interest in running Dubi out of town).
-I actually disagree with the people who think he got screwed in regards to minutes. Offensively, he REALLY struggled his last year here. Those PP minutes needed to go to players who were having more success.

My issue with what you posted (and continue to try to sneak in) is that at no time during his tenure here was Dubinsky a lazy backchecker (or lazy at anything for that matter). The fact that you continue to say that, and that you keep reaching to try and make it look like a legit opinion (3 individual plays, moving the goalposts, saying that demotions "prove" your point--you do realize that top-6 are production lines and bottom 6 are energy/effort lines, right? He would have been scratched if he had been lazy. He wasn't. He was relied on to carry the defensive load), just shows that the first bolded comment is crap.

You are going out of your way to try and "prove" that a player who isn't even on the team any more was "lazy" even though just about NOBODY agrees with you. You tell me, does that sound more like an argument based on someone objectively looking at the situation or an argument based on someone who can't forgive a player who once held out. While you're at it, remind me again who the other player was that you were ripping apart in this thread as a "defensive player in name only"?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You are making it sound like he was discarded. Dubinsky was traded because that is who Columbus wanted. And rightly so.

Sather doesnt trade Dubinsky, neither does Torts endorse moving Dubinsky if he provided a repeat performance of 2011.

The Rangers won 50-plus games and got to the CF without any offensive contribution from Dubinsky. He was a no-show in the postseason.

In fact, the Rangers won the Washington series without him. They lost both games of the Devils series he played in.

He was expendable, because he made himself expendable.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

While I dont completely disagree with you, I think your argument looks like pure crap when the Rangers traded Dubinsky and brought in players that couldnt match a fraction of Dubinsky's intensity on his worst day.

Dubinsky's intensity did what exactly? Beyond 6-8 seeds and 1st or 2nd round knockouts?

The trade was lateral at worst. Dubsinky's tough-guy approach and intensity wasnt enough to cover up the idiotic things he did with the puck his last year here.

Nash is no favorite of mine. But he was the team's best forward last year and you can argue they dont make the playoffs without him.

Dubinsky was the star in 2011 and was a no show in the losses to the Caps. He was a -4 with one goal in the four losses and had a big game in the 3-0 game.

He was a complete no-show in the 2012 postseason -- injury or not.

Nash was a no-show this postseason but made a great play on Kreider's GWG in the 3-0 game.

So there you have it. Dubi had one memorable playoff game in his last two seasons here and it was a meaningless game in retrospect.

I fail to see what his "intensity" would do for the current club. Intensity isnt the reason why they are down 2-0 every first period and their goalies are putting every rebound in the slot on the shots they are actaully finding a way to stop.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Dubinsky was moved because Columbus wanted him and rightfully so, they won that deal. We traded hard work for inconsistency and actually regressed since then but youre ******** on Dubinsky? I'll take Dubi at 4.5 over Nash at 7.8 just because he brings alot more in each end of the ice than Nash does and thats what wins hockey games. Dubinsky was noticeable on the ice even with a bad season and you cant deny that. He did everything and if youre gonna kill him for not scoring enough then you better kill the whole team because the team didnt either. I'll take the hard work with all the flaws over the goal scorer with all the flaws because hard work was the reason why the 11-12 season happened and Dubi was a big part of it whether you like it or not.

Dubi wasnt the greatest or the smartest but he WAS a good role player who played his role well and helped us out. The team hasnt looked the same without him. Trade for Nash and Brassard and expect to win a cup? Thats a demented way of looking at things. Kids who have been together their entire career and just break them up after a 109 point ECF season? Its sad.

This is a funny post. He was a role player in 2008. In 2011 he was paid to be the one of the stars on the team.

How about, we traded, hard work and inconsistency for inconsistency.

Dubinsky scored one goal (count them -- one) in his first 31 games of 2012.

He then scored four in his next eight games, then closed the season on a tear with a whopping 5 in his last 38 games.

Six goals in 69 games.

The super-playmaker also went on a 27-game stretch with just three assists.

Yes, this is all made up in my head. This never happened. Completely fabricated stats.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dubinbr01/gamelog/2012/

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Dubinsky was still 1st amongst NYR LWers in TOI/PG that year. Obviously down from the season before because Hagelin emerged into a top 6 player. His play didn't regress, he was simply put in a role not to put up significant point totals. The Rangers bottom 6 puck movement game would've been dreadful without him.

Thats because when he was put in a role to put up point totoals, he didnt. And he just didnt put up points period, let alone significant points.

Dubinsky TOI took a massive hit around December of 2011. He began the season playing top minutes (18-22 mins a game) then was demoted because he sucked offensively.

I mean, do people really think Torts put Dubinsky on the 3rd and 4th lines only because he wanted a balanced line up?

It

Was

A

De-

Mo-

Tion.

And deservedly so.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

See, you say things like the first bolded, and then you follow it up with crap like the 2nd bolded. Again, you had a string of posts listing things I don't disagree with.

-Dubinsky's play in his last year here made him available (while fans wanted to, management had no interest in running Dubi out of town).
-I actually disagree with the people who think he got screwed in regards to minutes. Offensively, he REALLY struggled his last year here. Those PP minutes needed to go to players who were having more success.

My issue with what you posted (and continue to try to sneak in) is that at no time during his tenure here was Dubinsky a lazy backchecker (or lazy at anything for that matter). The fact that you continue to say that, and that you keep reaching to try and make it look like a legit opinion (3 individual plays, moving the goalposts, saying that demotions "prove" your point--you do realize that top-6 are production lines and bottom 6 are energy/effort lines, right? He would have been scratched if he had been lazy. He wasn't. He was relied on to carry the defensive load), just shows that the first bolded comment is crap.

You are going out of your way to try and "prove" that a player who isn't even on the team any more was "lazy" even though just about NOBODY agrees with you. You tell me, does that sound more like an argument based on someone objectively looking at the situation or an argument based on someone who can't forgive a player who once held out. While you're at it, remind me again who the other player was that you were ripping apart in this thread as a "defensive player in name only"?

Yes. Yes. Yes. You know of my pain....sooooo many sleepless nights during that awful offseason of 2011. The pain. The horror. The suffering. The cold sweats.

Every night, I would wake up, and prayed to my Dubinsky shrine....not the one in the basement...the one in the study. I would pray and pray for Sather to come to his senses.

Then I found out the terrible news -- Brandon wanted more money. Ohhhhhh the horror. A stab in the back never experienced. Then he failed to report to camp. Black death!!!!!!

I tore down both shrines. I felt beyond used. Beyond duped. This was worse than Colin Powell and the WMD lies. This was a betrayal of the highest order.

CURSES!!!

"NEVER AGAIN, Brandon Dubinsky!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVERRRRRRR AGGGGGGAAAAIN!!!!!!!"

 

[smoneil]

Yes. Yes. Yes. You know of my pain....sooooo many sleepless nights during that awful offseason of 2011. The pain. The horror. The suffering. The cold sweats.

Every night, I would wake up, and prayed to my Dubinsky shrine....not the one in the basement...the one in the study. I would pray and pray for Sather to come to his senses.

Then I found out the terrible news -- Brandon wanted more money. Ohhhhhh the horror. A stab in the back never experienced. Then he failed to report to camp. Black death!!!!!!

I tore down both shrines. I felt beyond used. Beyond duped. This was worse than Colin Powell and the WMD lies. This was a betrayal of the highest order.

CURSES!!!

"NEVER AGAIN, Brandon Dubinsky!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVERRRRRRR AGGGGGGAAAAIN!!!!!!!"

Not gonna lie. This made my night, haha.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Dubinsky said Tortarella soured on him. It went both ways. Did Dubinsky feel entitled because he was the leading scorer the previous season and got the money? Or did Tortarella think the tough love he used on him made him that player in 2011, so why not continue with it in 2012.

On losing Brandon Dubinsky: ”Everyone asked for Dubi. Brandon should feel good about that, he’s so well respected in the league. A few years ago he was a pain in the ass, but he really matured now. He leveled himself off, had a tough year last year, and that unfortunately cracked the door that he may be traded. I’ll miss the guy, I spoke to him this morning. I think he’s really going to have a great year this year.”

That was Torts after the Nash trade on Michael Kay's show. Right there, the coach said he felt his 2012 season may have made his departure a reality.


Dubinsky played LW most of that season. You have to figure Kreider and Hagelin's emergence made Dubinsky expendable, especially if Nash was going to added to an already solid group of wingers that also included Callahan and Gaborik.

Where would Dubinsky fit? Kreider was called up when Hagelin got that ridiculous suspension. When it was up, Hagelin, Dubinsky and Kreider all played and Boyle sat the last two games with an injury. Dubinsky then hurt himself in Game 7 and missed most of the next two rounds.

Dubinsky's defense -- whether you thought is was good, average or bad -- wasnt enough to keep him here. His cap hit was too high for a guy to perform the way he did in 2012. he was paid to be a Pavelski and he was more of a Hecht -- at least for that one season.


The first thing I told my wife when I heard about the trade was that Nash better produce because Sather could have very well just traded Mike Ridley.

 

[Mikos87]

The first thing I told my wife when I heard about the trade was that Nash better produce because Sather could have very well just traded Mike Ridley.

Thankfully he's UFA in a year. If he hits the market, and the cap keeps going up, whose to say he isn't a player worth going after?

 

[JCrusher*]

Dubinsky said Tortarella soured on him. It went both ways. Did Dubinsky feel entitled because he was the leading scorer the previous season and got the money? Or did Tortarella think the tough love he used on him made him that player in 2011, so why not continue with it in 2012.



That was Torts after the Nash trade on Michael Kay's show. Right there, the coach said he felt his 2012 season may have made his departure a reality.


Dubinsky played LW most of that season. You have to figure Kreider and Hagelin's emergence made Dubinsky expendable, especially if Nash was going to added to an already solid group of wingers that also included Callahan and Gaborik.

Where would Dubinsky fit? Kreider was called up when Hagelin got that ridiculous suspension. When it was up, Hagelin, Dubinsky and Kreider all played and Boyle sat the last two games with an injury. Dubinsky then hurt himself in Game 7 and missed most of the next two rounds.

Dubinsky's defense -- whether you thought is was good, average or bad -- wasnt enough to keep him here. His cap hit was too high for a guy to perform the way he did in 2012. he was paid to be a Pavelski and he was more of a Hecht -- at least for that one season.


The first thing I told my wife when I heard about the trade was that Nash better produce because Sather could have very well just traded Mike Ridley.

Look i like Dubinsky but his cap hit wasnt worth what he was producing. His 2011-12 season wasnt good at all. Many fans wanted him out

 

[smoneil]

Thankfully he's UFA in a year. If he hits the market, and the cap keeps going up, whose to say he isn't a player worth going after?

I'd kick the tires, but I would be wary as well. Dubi has spent a lot of time on the IR the last couple of seasons as well. If he makes sense for where the team is in a year, I wouldn't be opposed to the team looking into it, but the only thing worse (IMO) than moving a player that never should have been moved is trying to "fix" that mistake by bringing that player back if he's not what you need.

 

[RangersHank*]

This is a funny post. He was a role player in 2008. In 2011 he was paid to be the one of the stars on the team.

How about, we traded, hard work and inconsistency for inconsistency.

Dubinsky scored one goal (count them -- one) in his first 31 games of 2012.

He then scored four in his next eight games, then closed the season on a tear with a whopping 5 in his last 38 games.

Six goals in 69 games.

The super-playmaker also went on a 27-game stretch with just three assists.

Yes, this is all made up in my head. This never happened. Completely fabricated stats.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dubinbr01/gamelog/2012/

If you think goals are everything in hockey then i'm not even gonna continue. Dubi broke his backside every night and the team is missing that. Sorry you dont understand

 

[Mikos87]

I'd kick the tires, but I would be wary as well. Dubi has spent a lot of time on the IR the last couple of seasons as well. If he makes sense for where the team is in a year, I wouldn't be opposed to the team looking into it, but the only thing worse (IMO) than moving a player that never should have been moved is trying to "fix" that mistake by bringing that player back if he's not what you need.

Mark Messier was over 40 when he was brought back, it's a little different with Dubi. If he's not a need then he's not a need, but he's definitely a player worth targeting.

 

[Cassano]

Thats because when he was put in a role to put up point totoals, he didnt. And he just didnt put up points period, let alone significant points.

Dubinsky TOI took a massive hit around December of 2011. He began the season playing top minutes (18-22 mins a game) then was demoted because he sucked offensively.

I mean, do people really think Torts put Dubinsky on the 3rd and 4th lines only because he wanted a balanced line up?

It

Was

A

De-

Mo-

Tion.

And deservedly so.

Just because a player puts up a slightly lower PPG than career total, doesn't mean they sucked that year. As evident by the stats I posted, he still single handily made the Rangers bottom 6 Corsi look respectable. He still logged most ice time amongst LWers. He's more important to a team than a guy like Brassard, who is offense or negative.

 

[RangersHank*]

Just because a player puts up a slightly lower PPG than career total, doesn't mean they sucked that year. As evident by the stats I posted, he still single handily made the Rangers bottom 6 Corsi look respectable. He still logged most ice time amongst LWers. He's more important to a team than a guy like Brassard, who is offense or negative.

GWOW is all about stats. If youre a 18-24 goal scorer and you have a bad year or two, youre worthless.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

GWOW is all about stats. If youre a 18-24 goal scorer and you have a bad year or two, youre worthless.

I didnt say he was worthless. I said he sucked. He obviously had worth.

And yeah, those stats things are so meaningless. I would think they were meaningless too if my argument was a House of Cards and I had zero factual evidence to back anything up.

It's like your defense of Lundqvist. You think people hate him because they mention he's not in the top-20 in GAA or SVPCT.

You use this BS argument centered on how it's the offenses fault that he gives up 2 goals every 1st period and puts rebounds into the slot.

I know it's hard for Millennials to be told they're wrong. It's that whole Last Winner thing.

 

[trilobyte]

The OP's question was asked on October 22.
At that time, I doubted that many Rangers thought much about it. Over two months later, the chance of a Rangers player pining for Tortorella seems even less likely. I think the players live in the now, not the past.

And the interesting part is that this question cannot be answered at all.

 

[Player big P]

Dubinsky was a fraud of a twenty goal scorer who never actually put twenty past a goalie, and thought he was the ****. He was mouthy and petulant and a whiner but because he whined and screamed about Sidney Crosby people ate it up. I've never seen a player look so often like he was about to actually literally cry because things weren't going his way.

He could single-handedly lead the Blue Jackets to a Cup and I still wouldn't miss him...but since there is literally zero chance of that ever happening, in any reality in which any of us live, it's not really a problem.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

maybe the title of the thread should be "How many FANS regret the Totorella Firing?"?

make that a poll

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

Dubinsky was a fraud ... I've never seen a player look so often like he was about to actually literally cry because things weren't going his way.

Wow. How'd you feel when Messier teared up?

 

[Mikos87]

maybe the title of the thread should be "How many FANS regret the Totorella Firing?"?

make that a poll

This all comes down to the W's.

 

[Player big P]

Wow. How'd you feel when Messier teared up?

Leaving aside the ridiculousness of any comparison between Messier and Dubinsky, there's a difference between being overcome by emotion and being about to cry because you decide things aren't fair because they didn't go the way you wanted to

 

[RangersHank*]

Leaving aside the ridiculousness of any comparison between Messier and Dubinsky, there's a difference between being overcome by emotion and being about to cry because you decide things aren't fair because they didn't go the way you wanted to

When did Dubinsky cry?

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

When did Dubinsky cry?

I believe he's making stuff up.

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

Leaving aside the ridiculousness of any comparison between Messier and Dubinsky, there's a difference between being overcome by emotion and being about to cry because you decide things aren't fair because they didn't go the way you wanted to

It wasn't a comparison. It was a question put to you. If the problem isn't crying, then make it clear whether you mean being "overcome by emotion" or "things aren't fair".

Can you post video of Dubinsky "literally" crying over "things [that] aren't fair"? Or maybe video of what you feel is a look that he has that conveys "literal" intent to cry. Lol.