Toggle sidebar

Speculation: How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr Atoz*
  • Start date Start date
  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, Vanvouver's success has everything to do with Tortarella. If he were here the Rangers would be 21-16-4 just like last season.

Wait a minute.
 
GWOW said:
Yes, Vanvouver's success has everything to do with Tortarella. If he were here the Rangers would be 21-16-4 just like last season.

Wait a minute.
Click to expand...

Just going along with the narrative that coaches matter less than players.

Wheres all the folks that insisted Vigneault's coaching/system would lead to more goals and more wins?

You could put a cardboard cutout behind the bench of most NHL teams, and the results would be similar.
 
The Rangers were 16-15-3 last year when they traded Gaborik.
Rangers record after 41 games since 2007:

2014 20-19-2
2013 21-16-4
2012 27-10-4
2011 23-15-3
2010 19-17-5
2009 24-14-4
2008 20-17-4
2007 20-17-4

It's not coaching. They're a mediocre team whose starts have been mediocre for a decade. Two seasons they were consistent for 3/4 of the season.

The Canucks, like the Rangers, are in a garbage division this year. Torts inherited an established elite core that's won five straight division titles. Vigneault inherited the possibility of an elite core who have had home ice in the first round once in 17 years.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Just going along with the narrative that coaches matter less than players.

Wheres all the folks that insisted Vigneault's coaching/system would lead to more goals and more wins?

You could put a cardboard cutout behind the bench of most NHL teams, and the results would be similar.
Click to expand...

Special teams are better. Maybe they should have kept Torts and overpaid AV as a consultant. Like Gene Keady is for Steve Lavin.

And no way McDonagh QBs the 6th best PP under Torts.
 
True Blue said:
You cannot conflate records of teams to point totals of players. Team-wise, you are what your record says you are.

More success than any other coach in recent memory.
Click to expand...

So Van was a first place team year after year under AV.

You must have a short and selective memory. What was Torts win/Loss record as a Ranger? What was Tom Renneys? They are near identical.
 
GWOW said:
Special teams are better. Maybe they should have kept Torts and overpaid AV as a consultant. Like Gene Keady is for Steve Lavin.

And no way McDonagh QBs the 6th best PP under Torts.
Click to expand...

Powerplay is better, 5 on 5 play is worse -- and so it goes.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
To predict the future, the recent past is most important. The most recent full season Torts led us to a first place finish.
Click to expand...

The most recent season was last season. If you were not biased you would not keep cherry picking his 1 good year as a Rangers coach.
 
NickyFotiu said:
So Van was a first place team year after year under AV.

You must have a short and selective memory. What was Torts win/Loss record as a Ranger? What was Tom Renneys? They are near identical.
Click to expand...
How many times was Renney's one of final 8 teams? How many times did he make it to ECF?

How many younger players developed under Renney?
 
If it wasn't for that one good season we wouldn't be having this discussion. That year was a fluke. Hank gave us a chance to win every single game that year. He stole games we had no business winning. If anyone thinks that torts is the reason for the 2012 success you're kidding yourself. Look at every year from the last 3 coaches. Aside from that 1 outlier, we have finished in the same spots year after year. That's clearly on management not the coaches. Aside from 2012 this team has done nothing and will continue to do nothing under torts AV or whoever you put behind the bench. This team is Sather's fault not AV's.
 
True Blue said:
How many times was Renney's one of final 8 teams? How many times did he make it to ECF?

How many younger players developed under Renney?
Click to expand...

You said you are what your record is. So I ask you what was Renneys W/L record as a Ranger? What was Torts?

Renney did not make the ECF but he still had a better playoff W/L record than Torts showing that the trip to the ECF was much more a fluke than anything. It also was Lundy winning a bunch of game 7's. Despite us coming in first we beat the 8th seed by 1 goal in the first round.

How many times did Renney miss the playoffs? How many times did Torts?
 
NickyFotiu said:
The most recent season was last season. If you were not biased you would not keep cherry picking his 1 good year as a Rangers coach.
Click to expand...

Lockout shortened season was stupid. A season is 82 games. Last time that happened Torts took us to a first place finish.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
Lockout shortened season was stupid. A season is 82 games. Last time that happened Torts took us to a first place finish.
Click to expand...

A season is as long as a season is. You have a Torts bias so you want to cherry pick his best season and ignore the others.

.530
.567
.665
.583

Which is the outlier and which is the norm?
 
NickyFotiu said:
A season is as long as a season is. You have a Torts bias so you want to cherry pick his best season and ignore the others.

.530
.567
.665
.583

Which is the outlier and which is the norm?
Click to expand...

It's not cherry picking, I'm favoring the last complete season. You're the one wanting to ignore the most recent complete result.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
It's not cherry picking, I'm favoring the last complete season. You're the one wanting to ignore the most recent complete result.
Click to expand...

AV's team was better than torts's in the last full season. 2012 was a fluke nothing more. If anyone deserves the credit for that year it's Hank not Torts.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
It's not cherry picking, I'm favoring the last complete season. You're the one wanting to ignore the most recent complete result.
Click to expand...

You are playing word semantics to cherry pick 1 season. You are not picking the last season. You are not picking any of the other seasons.

AV's prior seasons

.628
.713
.677
.615
 
This is about as repetitive an argument as I've ever read on this forum. I've read a lot longer than I've posted, btw. As far as I see it Renney was a fine coach who was blessed with Jagr and Shanahan. As soon as those generational talents left, and were replaced with Zherdev, among others, his team's w/l record drastically changed.

Tortorella's success was in getting the young core that was phased in after the dismissal of the driftwood to exceed the success of even the Jagr years in terms of won-loss percentage.

There are a few constants in the Renney/Tortorella teams. Lundqvist is one of them. Jagr and Shanahan are not.
 
Dactyl said:
AV's team was better than torts's in the last full season. 2012 was a fluke nothing more. If anyone deserves the credit for that year it's Hank not Torts.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a fluke, Sather just blew it all to hell. Would that team have finished 1st again? Probably not, but they still would have been a good team.

Why do people downplay that season? It's one of the only things to be proud of this team for in like 20 years.
 
aufheben said:
Why do people downplay that season? It's one of the only things to be proud of this team for in like 20 years.
Click to expand...

Proudest I felt for this franchise in the years since the cup, no joke. And that's also admitting full well the fun it was to watch Jagr, Nylander and Straka.

That season was actually the first time I ever saw what you could consider a real NY Ranger team competing to be at the highest levels, a team that was built and/or matured together in the NYR system, for the most part, with important contributions by a limited number of FAs.
 
aufheben said:
It wasn't a fluke, Sather just blew it all to hell. Would that team have finished 1st again? Probably not, but they still would have been a good team.

Why do people downplay that season? It's one of the only things to be proud of this team for in like 20 years.
Click to expand...

Some lost souls place a premium on the style of play (:) vs. :() over winning hockey games. That 11-12 team should have been added to, not altered.

Its a helluva lot tougher to capture the foundation they had than whatever the heck foundation we currently have on this team.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Some lost souls place a premium on the style of play (:) vs. :() over winning hockey games. That 11-12 team should have been added to, not altered.

Its a helluva lot tougher to capture the foundation they had than whatever the heck foundation we currently have on this team.
Click to expand...

Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Some lost souls place a premium on the style of play (:) vs. :() over winning hockey games. That 11-12 team should have been added to, not altered.

Its a helluva lot tougher to capture the foundation they had than whatever the heck foundation we currently have on this team.
Click to expand...

They kept the same 6 defensemen, replaced Dubinsky with Nash which 30 GMs do 1000 times out of 1000 when you consider Dubinsky's awful lost season and corresponding cap hit.

Anisimov and Prust were role players. Losing Anisimov hurt but Prust was massively overpaid and you can't blame Sather for not agreeing to pay Prust that ridiculous raise.

I mean, they swapped Fedotenko with Pyatt and added Kreider and MZA at no cost.

They added Rick Nash in his prime to Gaborik who was coming off an all star season.

I'm not buying this intangibles BS, like I'm supposed to believe Dubinsky's penalty killing and Prust's enthusiasm cancelled out putrid offense at a tune of almost 7 million combined in cap hits.

Like Prust and Dubinsky would have made a difference in the Bruins series.
 
People love the blame game after every loss, ignoring the fact that you can't go 82-0 and there is going to be nights where you just aren't talented enough.

Whose fault was it that Gaborik disappeared? Whose fault was it that Richards and Nash were postseason no-shows? Whose fault was it that Staal lost his vision? Whose fault was it that Lundqvist for the first time in his career couldn't stop the Bruins?

The players hated Torts. Respected? Maybe. But the rift was too great. They were going public with their misgivings, Lundqvist bringing the biggest scare with his comments in the offseason.

This team is 20-19-2 no matter who the coach is. The players Sather has assembled aren't working well enough to contend.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom