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Speculation: How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

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GWOW said:
People love the blame game after every loss, ignoring the fact that you can't go 82-0 and there is going to be nights where you just aren't talented enough.

Whose fault was it that Gaborik disappeared? Whose fault was it that Richards and Nash were postseason no-shows? Whose fault was it that Staal lost his vision? Whose fault was it that Lundqvist for the first time in his career couldn't stop the Bruins?

The players hated Torts. Respected? Maybe. But the rift was too great. They were going public with their misgivings, Lundqvist bringing the biggest scare with his comments in the offseason.

This team is 20-19-2 no matter who the coach is. The players Sather has assembled aren't working well enough to contend.
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Agreed, it is difficult when at the start of the season 3 of the top 6 are hurt (Nash, Callahan, and Hagelin) Hank is obviously having an off year. To say that Torts would have done anything better with the group that is assembled is a little far fetched. The one thing that can be said is with the 6 goalie system Hank may not have been so exposed.

You have to give AV at least a season and a half, reason being we can write this season off because while the team is talented in its own sense the team was built for a Torts system. AV's system needs to have good quality offensive defensemen, his best year in Vancouver (the 2011 season) he had Edler with 33 points, Hamhuis with 23 points, Beiksa with 22 points, and Erhoff with 50 points (which was tied for 5th on the Team).

Kesler with 73 points had a fantastic year behind the Sedins (Hendrik had 94 and Daniel had 104 points), and they got contributions from people like Mikael Samuelsson with 50 points. Forget the combined 271 points of the top 3 scores. With this Rangers team who could honestly put up 50 points Nash (should be), Richards (should be), after that however, who? Callahan, Stepan and.... Hagelin? Kreider? McD? Brassard? They also had good scoring behind that 50 point mark, Burrows had 48, Raymond had 39, even Raffi Torres had 30 points.

The way that I see it, the GM group should be sitting down with AV and figuring out who they would need on the team to make them have success. Building a team around a couch is a good idea for this because building an offensive system is more difficult and harder to do than a defensive system. Now unfortunately for the Rangers they will not be able to draft twins this season that are able to put up a combined 198 points but with some changes they could be able to replicate the scoring with other scorers. IT will be difficult but it can be done and as a fan base we need to be patient and allow them to make changes.

Torts went to another team he is not the coach of the Rangers, do the players regret the firing more than likely not, if anyone does it is the players that will be shipped out because they do not fit this system.
 
GWOW said:
People love the blame game after every loss, ignoring the fact that you can't go 82-0 and there is going to be nights where you just aren't talented enough.

Whose fault was it that Gaborik disappeared? Whose fault was it that Richards and Nash were postseason no-shows? Whose fault was it that Staal lost his vision? Whose fault was it that Lundqvist for the first time in his career couldn't stop the Bruins?

The players hated Torts. Respected? Maybe. But the rift was too great. They were going public with their misgivings, Lundqvist bringing the biggest scare with his comments in the offseason.

This team is 20-19-2 no matter who the coach is. The players Sather has assembled aren't working well enough to contend.
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People that ignore that seasons regular season W/L was basically a outlier to the norm ignore a few things.

That same team with Duby, AA, and Prust had to back in to the playoffs the season before. That team did not even make the playoffs the season before that.

Even in the season when we had a great regular season w/l record (thanks Hank) we only won playoff series in 7th games often by 1 goal. (thanks Hank).

If we were a legit #1 seed there is no way we go to a 7th game vs the #8 seed never mind only win the series by 1 goal.
 
The important thing is that they won those playoff series and made the ECF for the first time in 15(?) years. #1 seeds get upset all the time. It usually takes multiple years of having a good team to make even just one deep playoff run.

Hell I was getting ready to play Toronto last spring; the Bruins ended up in the Finals. '11-12 was the one year that we had a legit Cup contender, and making the ECF isn't bad at all IMO, when you only have a (GM imposed) one year window.

Maybe they get swept in the first round next season; Do you blow it up? No, you stick to the plan and try to make it farther next year. Management added an addition to the house using wood from the foundation.
 
NickyFotiu said:
People that ignore that seasons regular season W/L was basically a outlier to the norm ignore a few things.

That same team with Duby, AA, and Prust had to back in to the playoffs the season before. That team did not even make the playoffs the season before that.

Even in the season when we had a great regular season w/l record (thanks Hank) we only won playoff series in 7th games often by 1 goal. (thanks Hank).

If we were a legit #1 seed there is no way we go to a 7th game vs the #8 seed never mind only win the series by 1 goal.
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What is your point exactly? Am I supposed to believe the plan was for the team to take several steps backward so they can be reinvented (at some point in the unnamed future) as a legitimate skill-driven team?? One that doesn't particularly have much skill?

Thats certainly not how it was sold around the time of Tortorella's firing.
 
This team has been a 6th to 9th seed for years. Torts being hired then fired did not change that. 1 season is the outlier not the norm.

Its like Van. Under AV that team was in first place usually. Do people really think Torts went to Van and made them win more? If you do then think again.

They are 23-12-7 now after 42 games this season under Torts.

Last season they were 24-12-6 after 42 games under AV (1 point better)
 
NickyFotiu said:
Its like Van. Under AV that team was in first place usually. Do people really think Torts went to Van and made them win more? If you do then think again.

They are 23-12-7 now after 42 games this season under Torts.

Last season they were 24-12-6 after 42 games under AV (1 point better)
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NickyFotiu said:
Last time I looked we were around 4 points lower this season. Also pretty insignificant given all the injuries and Hank being MIA for part of the season.
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Yeah except last year they were in one of the weakest divisions in the NHL and this year they are in a division with Anaheim, LA, San Jose, etc. Oh and look at the west vs. the east this year compared to last year.

Also, the sedins, kesler, luongo are a year older and Edler, Burrows, Stanton, and Schroeder are injured.
 
Coaches on the whole cant make a team better/talented than they are. This team is mediocre because a buffoon like sather is running the ship. Rangers will finish in the same position they always finish in 7-10.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
What is your point exactly? Am I supposed to believe the plan was for the team to take several steps backward so they can be reinvented (at some point in the unnamed future) as a legitimate skill-driven team?? One that doesn't particularly have much skill?

Thats certainly not how it was sold around the time of Tortorella's firing.
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Torts is holding back all the O! Oh wait, no he wasn't.
 
I wonder if Rick Nash regrets the Torts firing. Torts had him playing the best hockey of his career. AV has him playing like a dead dog who sucks at hockey.
 
Trxjw said:
Looks like we've come a long way from the Glen Sather Appreciation Thread.
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:( Unfortunately we have. Crazy to think all the good work he was doing would be undone by two moves (Nash trade and Torts firing) that at their times had broad support amongst the fan base (although clearly not me, and not everyone).
 
I think (hope?) Sather is ready to give it up. Nash and AV were desperation moves to try to get to the promised land. Maybe this is it? Maybe this is his swan song?

oh please oh please oh please
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
Do a search for "stone age hockey."

You'll find one of the worst HFNYR memes of all time.
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Thats what Norways national coach (Roy Johansen) called the Rangers play style (Dump & Chase+battle in the corners), and said that Zuke was a very bad fit for it :)

Which was true enough. The problem however is that very few others on the Rangers seems to be able to play anything BUT Torts system.
 
Placid said:
Thats what Norways national coach (Roy Johansen) called the Rangers play style (Dump & Chase+battle in the corners), and said that Zuke was a very bad fit for it :)

Which was true enough. The problem however is that very few others on the Rangers seems to be able to play anything BUT Torts system.
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I have to agree with you. To extrapolate on that thought, could this be the time to consider how to go forward, to maybe take that calculated risk, and enact a plan that includes a more normal and more proven strategy for how to make a team successful?
I think it is the time, and the season. It would require a blueprint, and I think most people suspect that such a thing may not exist. Maybe it does, but it's deep doo-doo for NYR if it does not exist.
 
I wasn't happy with the Torts firing at all. Still not happy. Team lost key players going into playoffs and still won a round before going up against a better Bruins team. He didn't deserve it.
 
I actually think Tortorella is a better fit with the Canucks than he is with NYR.
Canucks needed a touch of grit behind the bench. The Rangers got as much as they could stand. The Rangers need more talent, not more grit.
 
NickyFotiu said:
Last time I looked we were around 4 points lower this season. Also pretty insignificant given all the injuries and Hank being MIA for part of the season.
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Oh, ok. AV is doing two wins worse with a similar lineup. JT is doing one point worse with a similar lineup.

Two wins obviously = 1 otl. Nice. I wish I knew how important games were when I had an agenda.
 
honestly if torts wouldve just hired a PP specialist, oh say Arniel, instead of being a stubborn dick about having an embarrassing PP, he would still be here.
 
Dactyl said:
honestly if torts wouldve just hired a PP specialist, oh say Arniel, instead of being a stubborn dick about having an embarrassing PP, he would still be here.
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We have dallas former head coach running our PP torts played a part in hiring along with gillis, and its still not doing us any good.

Newell brown our PP mastermind who went missing in 2012,2013 (Our PP since 2012 is about as bad as it is now, dont let 2011-2012 numbers fool you, we dominated 2011 Oct, Nov, Dec, then went missing once 2012 hit, someone did the numbers and in 2012 we had utterly disgusting numbers something like 11/123) is now with pheonix doing fine again. And pheonix claims ribero deserves the credit.

And in all honesty i have no idea how arniels PP is doing so good, those of us who followed the farm team when he coached the canucks farm system were not happy with him as a coach at all.

I cant draw any legitimate conclusions connecting dots to PP success when it comes to coaches and this is coming from a team who used to dominate the PP....under newell brown. I guess what I am trying to say is I believe it has more to do with personnel, our fanbase doesnt believe our PP is a coaching issue even under av in 2012-2013, they beleive its personnel (erhoff and salo loss), I would analyze wether rangers are using different players on the PP now, or said players on the PP are playing better this year.
 
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