Speculation: How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

[Tawnos]

What does designing a roster around your goaltender mean exactly? I've heard the Rangers talk about it, and it sounds like idiocy to me. You either have a good goaltender of you dont. He either stops pucks or he doesnt.

But building a roster around a goaltender? It makes no sense. It sounds like lip service

In the last half of the last decade he drafted nearly exclusively defensemen in the first round and two-way forwards in the 2nd round with the intent of building from the net out. It's a valid strategy, although I would say that he had his blinders on just a bit too much when executing it.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Neil Smith got cocky, but he had a right. The Rangers won 3 division titles, two President's trophies and a Cup in his first five years after 54 years of nothing. He wrote off 1995 as a mulligan because of the short season.

Neil Smith was always a good talent evaluator. He scouted for the Isles for a few years but hit home run after home run as the director of scouting for the Red Wings. He left the Red Wings in 1989 -- in 1991 the Red Wings began what is going on almost 20 years of being the Detroit we know.

He served as consultant to Pierre Gauthier in Anaheim and left in 2002 -- the Ducks went to the SCF the following season. He was a consultant to Criag Patrick in Pittsburgh.

I'm not saying re-hire Neil Smith. I'm saying they need a GM who understands player development and scouting.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

In the last half of the last decade he drafted nearly exclusively defensemen in the first round and two-way forwards in the 2nd round with the intent of building from the net out. It's a valid strategy, although I would say that he had his blinders on just a bit too much when executing it.

The Rangers don't have one legitimate two-way forward who is actually good at both ends of the ice.

Callahan is the closest thing but he is far from a shutdown checker. He's a guy who blocks shots and backchecks more than his peers, which doesnt say a lot considering the team he plays for.

 

[Tawnos]

The Rangers don't have one legitimate two-way forward who is actually good at both ends of the ice.

Callahan is the closest thing but he is far from a shutdown checker. He's a guy who blocks shots and backchecks more than his peers, which doesnt say a lot considering the team he plays for.

Derek Stepan.

And they also drafted Dubinsky and Anisimov in that time

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Game of My Life: New York Rangers
By John Halligan, John Kreiser

“We made a lot of changes because I didn't like the attitude of the organization,” he says. “The environment was like, 'We're used to this. It's OK to lose in the first or second round. I was [angry] because I wanted to keep moving ahead, and it seemed like losing didn't bother them that much

Smith was mentored by Al Arbour and Bill Torrey. He came to the Rangers and it was disaster thanks to Esposito. Some pieces were in place but Smith hit home runs with the Nicholls and Gartner trades. Nicholls scored 70 goals the year prior. gartner was the most fastest and most consistent right wing in the game.

Morale is shot right now. Who is the leader in that locker room? Nobody has street cred. Richards? That's a joke. The former Conn Smythe winner who was benched a year ago for being lazy.

Callahan? Callahan is a third line role player who spends more time in street clothes. Staal is not a leader. Girardi is a clown. McDonagh is soft spoken like Leetch.

The veterans on this team are followers. Nash is the epitome of a follower.

Kreider, Miller and slow-ass Stepan. These kids have emotion. One of them should be groomed to be Captain.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Derek Stepan.

And they also drafted Dubinsky and Anisimov in that time

Stepan is a defensive forward in name only. Dubinsky was an aloof and lazy backchecker. Anisimov is about the only guy I can think of who was a reliable two-way forward in the classic, Selke definition of the word.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Smith was abruptly fired and replaced by New York goalie Garth Snow, who retired to take over the position.

"This is a decision made by me," Wang told reporters in the Islanders' otherwise empty locker room. "I'll take the blame and I'll take the credit. This is something that I feel very strongly about. I was clear. I said this is what we're going to, here's how we're going to run it."

Wang set it up so each person would report directly to him. Every member of the front-office team has a role.

Smith wasn't used to that kind of setup, even though Wang said he was very clear about it up front. One point of contention was the hiring of an equipment manager. As GM, Smith thought that was his job. Wang decided all matters involving the team would be decided by Nolan.

"I knew it would get worse because when you know it's wrong, it doesn't work," Wang said. "You feel it and you've got to correct it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2522886

That was almost 8 years ago. Great call, Wang. Mr. Wang (no offense).

Both Wang and Dolan are micro-managing narcissists. Sather compliments him. The Isles and Rangers will go nowhere under their yoke.

 

[smoneil]

Stepan is a defensive forward in name only. Dubinsky was an aloof and lazy backchecker. Anisimov is about the only guy I can think of who was a reliable two-way forward in the classic, Selke definition of the word.

Did he hook up with your sister or steal your girl (or both)? I'm just trying to figure out some reason why you insist on posting this, when 99.99% of the league (fans, players, execs, coaches, media, etc) think that that statement is laughable.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Did he hook up with your sister or steal your girl (or both)? I'm just trying to figure out some reason why you insist on posting this, when 99.99% of the league (fans, players, execs, coaches, media, etc) think that that statement is laughable.

Dubinsky:

"I'm going to take the puck and bull down the wing. I'm then going to go around the net and center it to pretty much nobody. Then when my failed pass falls into the wrong hands, I'm going to make sure I'm the last guy back because my goalie will bail me out anyway. Then I'll get demoted, then benched, then promoted again because my team sucks, then I'll get demoted again"

Yeah, that neeeeeeever happened. Ever.

I like Dubinsky a lot but he was a fake power forward. He was a perimeter player which is mind boggling for a 6'1 center.

If you consider how Dubinsky played the boards as being good defensively, then fine. To me, he was terrible at coverage, and whatever good he did on the PK had little to do with his smarts

 

[aufheben]

Stepan is a defensive forward in name only. Dubinsky was an aloof and lazy backchecker. Anisimov is about the only guy I can think of who was a reliable two-way forward in the classic, Selke definition of the word.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[RangersHank*]

Dubinsky:

"I'm going to take the puck and bull down the wing. I'm then going to go around the net and center it to pretty much nobody. Then when my failed pass falls into the wrong hands, I'm going to make sure I'm the last guy back because my goalie will bail me out anyway. Then I'll get demoted, then benched, then promoted again because my team sucks, then I'll get demoted again"

Yeah, that neeeeeeever happened. Ever.

I like Dubinsky a lot but he was a fake power forward. He was a perimeter player which is mind boggling for a 6'1 center.

If you consider how Dubinsky played the boards as being good defensively, then fine. To me, he was terrible at coverage, and whatever good he did on the PK had little to do with his smarts

24 points, 3 behind Richards. I'll take Dubi back with his flaws and all.

 

[Nightshift]

Stepan is average defensively. Mostly because he can barely skate.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Dubinsky:

"I'm going to take the puck and bull down the wing. I'm then going to go around the net and center it to pretty much nobody. Then when my failed pass falls into the wrong hands, I'm going to make sure I'm the last guy back because my goalie will bail me out anyway. Then I'll get demoted, then benched, then promoted again because my team sucks, then I'll get demoted again"

Yeah, that neeeeeeever happened. Ever.

I like Dubinsky a lot but he was a fake power forward. He was a perimeter player which is mind boggling for a 6'1 center.

If you consider how Dubinsky played the boards as being good defensively, then fine. To me, he was terrible at coverage, and whatever good he did on the PK had little to do with his smarts

Yeah, that wasn't Dubi. Dubi would go coast to coast a lot, and hold the puck in the offensive zone a lot, but that was all a good thing. He was/is incredible at carrying the puck. That's why he never should have been moved off his natural center position, but that's another topic. He was good defensively, and he's logging a ton of PK time with the CBJ so they obviously think you're wrong too. He's probably not a traditional power forward, he's more like a power playmaker. His game is to set guys up from his strength on the puck.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

There's a difference between being a two-way forward in the NHL and being a good two-way forward in the NHL.

Stepan is a two-way forward on the Rangers. That doesnt mean he's a good two-way forward in the NHL.

Stepan is stupid with the puck in his own end. As was Dubinsky and as is Callahan. They make lazy plays in their own end that boggle the mind.

All three habitually made unsafe plays in the offensive zone. Dubinsky was a horror show in every sense of the term his last year here. Wax nostalgic all you want about his one good wire-to-wire year here.

A lot of you guys don't know what a good two-way forward looks like, so you say stupid things like "Staal is a shut-down defender" and "Boyle is a great defensive forward"

Please.

They should rename this board the "Selective Memory and Revisionist History Board".

Sure. Sure. Dubi was a stud defensively. Sure. The benchings, demotions and public criticism from Tortarella is just made up stuff from the National Enquirer.

 

[Tawnos]

The benchings were about his inconsistent offensive play, not his D work. If anything is revisionist here, it's your evaluation of the player.

But then again, the evaluation of Stepan is way off too.

It seems as if all of your evaluations are based on some unrealistic paragon of what a two-way forward is. No one is saying these guys are Pavel Datsyuk or Patrice Bergeron or even Jere Lehtinen. Not every two way player needs to be a Selke candidate to be a good one.

 

[Callagraves]

The benchings were about his inconsistent offensive play, not his D work. If anything is revisionist here, it's your evaluation of the player.

But then again, the evaluation of Stepan is way off too.

It seems as if all of your evaluations are based on some unrealistic paragon of what a two-way forward is. No one is saying these guys are Pavel Datsyuk or Patrice Bergeron or even Jere Lehtinen. Not every two way player needs to be a Selke candidate to be a good one.

Bolded for agreement

 

[mrhockey193195]

Count me as somebody who genuinely think that Stepan will be a Selke candidate in his career. Some of you guys seem to have very short memories, Stepan was sensational defensively last season. His forte is clearly not puck pursuit (a la Datsyuk), but his positioning and stickwork (intercepting passes) is top notch.

Has he shown that this season? No. But he has for the rest of his career thus far.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

The benchings were about his inconsistent offensive play, not his D work. If anything is revisionist here, it's your evaluation of the player.

But then again, the evaluation of Stepan is way off too.

It seems as if all of your evaluations are based on some unrealistic paragon of what a two-way forward is. No one is saying these guys are Pavel Datsyuk or Patrice Bergeron or even Jere Lehtinen. Not every two way player needs to be a Selke candidate to be a good one.

Dubinsky turnover leads to 2-on-1 for Isles, Biron makes two saves, then Del Zotto slides in on goal line to save second rebound #NYR

https://twitter.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/150020165705269250

Tortorella buried Dubinsky on the bench for half the second period and all of the third and overtime after the 23-year-old center's neutral-ice turnover during a Ranger power play resulted in a 2-on-0 goal that kick-started a Canadiens rally in Montreal's 5-4 overtime victory.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...ohn-tortorella-article-1.388332#ixzz2ooRPNuBa

This is not meant to excuse Dubinsky for abandoning good defensive position to chase the puck as third-man high, a mistake that opened an avenue for the Maple Leafs to create (and score on) a two-on-one midway through Saturday night’s first period, only 24 hours after the Rangers drowned under a tidal wave of the Sabres’ odd-man rushes.

http://nypost.com/2012/03/26/blaming-brandon-no-way-to-right-rangers-ship/

 

[Tawnos]

You are arguing with me by bringing out three plays that took place in offensive situations?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Stepan was very good last year in his own zone. His other three years have been a different story. While I think he can develop into an excellent two-way forward, he's obviously regressed. Maybe it's Vigneault. Maybe it's Nash.

I personally think Callahan gets to much credit for being a defensive player. Yes he hits, blocks shots and kills penalties, and his effort is never in question. But to me, being a defensive forward requires brains, which Callahan has none.

Everything Callahan has accomplished is through hard work. But he's a stupid player. Responsible defensive forwards dont dangle at their own blue line, do drop passes to nobody on the rush and continue to do that ridiculous centering pass to nowhere.

You dont have to be a Selke finalist to be a good defensive forward. Dubinsky has never even gotten one vote for the Selke in his six years in the league. Not even a 5th place vote.

Maybe he gets it this year on that defensive powerhouse over in Columbus

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You are arguing with me by bringing out three plays that took place in offensive situations?

Are you going to deny Dubinsky didnt have a habit of bonehead plays regardless of what part of the ice they happened in?

 

[smoneil]

Are you going to deny Dubinsky didnt have a habit of bonehead plays regardless of what part of the ice they happened in?

We've been down this road so many times that it has potholes by now. This is apparently the point in the script that you, in your desperate attempt to "prove" your irrational dislike of a player, try to pretend that you were saying something different from what you were called out on.

Did Dubi make the occasional dumb mistake? Sure. He's a 2nd liner. If he dominated in every way, he'd be a 1st liner. That isn't what you said. You said he was "a lazy and aloof backchecker"--and that is a steaming load of fertilizer. You are literally one of the ONLY people I have seen make this accusation. Even people who wanted Dubi shipped out for a 15th round pick and a box of animal crackers admitted that he busted his ass out there on a regular basis.

 

[Tawnos]

Are you going to deny Dubinsky didnt have a habit of bonehead plays regardless of what part of the ice they happened in?

I will not deny that Dubinsky didn't have those habits in the defensive zone, but I don't think you meant to put the double negative in there. He didn't really have those habits on D.

 

[Machinehead]

The only player Rangers obsess more about after the fact than Dubinsky is Potvin, but Dubinsky is catching up.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

We've been down this road so many times that it has potholes by now. This is apparently the point in the script that you, in your desperate attempt to "prove" your irrational dislike of a player, try to pretend that you were saying something different from what you were called out on.

Did Dubi make the occasional dumb mistake? Sure. He's a 2nd liner. If he dominated in every way, he'd be a 1st liner. That isn't what you said. You said he was "a lazy and aloof backchecker"--and that is a steaming load of fertilizer. You are literally one of the ONLY people I have seen make this accusation. Even people who wanted Dubi shipped out for a 15th round pick and a box of animal crackers admitted that he busted his ass out there on a regular basis.

I stop liking a player when they suck. Dubinsky sucked. I know it's rough for the people who bought jersey's. It happens.