How many first round loses is Dubas allowed before he should be fired?

[Leaf Fans]

I was told goal keeping was luck and shouldn't count towards your teams overall defensive prowess though

Maybe, but why would you believe that?

 

[rocketman588]

Maybe, but why would you believe that?

I don't but it seems like it was a organizational thought especially regarding the back up goalie early in this regime.

Freddy wasn't great but he was a mishandled asset. We either needed to resign or trade him for a goalie on an ok contract with better term pre him leaving as a ufa. Say we use him and a pick or something post Columbus loss for a demko or lehner or someone if that caliber and we buy a better goalie that is cost controlled while keeping Campbell's number artificially lower

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Something tells me even if you read one, you wouldn't believe it anyway so what's the point.

No one is changing anyone's mind here.

Nice cop out answer to justify the non-existence of this argument. "It doesn't matter one doesn't exist, you guys won't listen anyways".

Someone lay down something compelling and I'm all ears. I guarantee you many others will follow suit.

There's nothing there really besides faith. Stick to facts and there's no tears to shed if we have to break up with Dubas and move on.

This team runs through the core and Dubas was not necessary to have this core. JT would have signed even if Steve Simmons was GM.

 

[Havoc]

Nice cop out answer to justify the non-existence of this argument. "It doesn't matter one doesn't exist, you guys won't listen anyways".

Someone lay down something compelling and I'm all ears. I guarantee you many others will follow suit.

There's nothing there really besides faith. Stick to facts and there's no tears to shed if we have to break up with Dubas and move on.

This team runs through the core and Dubas was not necessary to have this core. JT would have signed even if Steve Simmons was GM.

Yeah you have to really stretch things to prove Dubas is necessary.

That core is way too sick to not have won a round yet. The last 3 opponents were all a mix of low end, middle and high end too and the result is the same: First round loss.

So going back to our core being way too sick to not have won a round yet, clearly the middle man might be the problem. Cut him out and let's rack up some playoff wins.

If it turns out he wasn't the problem, I don't trust him to be the one in charge of re-tooling the core. Objectively, his trading history is a C+ at best.

I think its 100% agreement here. This simple informal fact of "our core is way too sick to not have won a round yet" is shared by everyone. So there can't exist anyone who thinks Dubas is blame free. And if Dubas is not blame free, nobody should be angry if there exists posters who want him out. That's just natural progression.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Yeah you have to really stretch things to prove Dubas is necessary.

That core is way too sick to not have won a round yet. The last 3 opponents were all a mix of low end, middle and high end too and the result is the same: First round loss.

So going back to our core being way too sick to not have won a round yet, clearly the middle man might be the problem. Cut him out and let's rack up some playoff wins.

If it turns out he wasn't the problem, I don't trust him to be the one in charge of re-tooling the core. Objectively, his trading history is a C+ at best.

I think its 100% agreement here. This simple informal fact of "our core is way too sick to not have won a round yet" is shared by everyone. So there can't exist anyone who thinks Dubas is blame free. And if Dubas is not blame free, nobody should be angry if there exists posters who want him out. That's just natural progression.

Dubas' current standing should at best be summarized as this from the pro side:

"I still believe in him and want him as our GM, but I also understand why you need to part ways".

Any other stance (from a dubas fan) is just childish and troll worthy to me (no offence to whoever prompted this post from me originally).

 

[Lightsol]

Maybe, but why would you believe that?

Rocketman is putting words in Dekes' mouth to sound superior. Dekes was trying to explain that there's a difference between having a good defense and having a poor defense but a great goalie, whereas Rocketman was insisting that a bad defense is a bad defense.

 

[egd27]

Nope but they are all losers many many worse than us.

Yea, but not with panache that we have. In fact, I believe I read they are the only major sports franchise to lose 6 opening round series in consecutive seasons.

 

[Lightsol]

Yea, but not with panache that we have. In fact, I believe I read they are the only major sports franchise to lose 6 opening round series in consecutive seasons.

Again, that's because they don't count missing the playoffs as a series loss. A number of teams have had a combination of first round losses and missing over an equal or longer period of time than we have, we're just the first to have the consistency of making the playoffs each year, only to lose in the first round.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

It's hard for me to get along with anyone here.

I can't relate to people who hate Nylander and Tavares and also can't relate to anyone who believes in Dubas and Keefe.

These two groups make up 95% of this place and neither side seems to understand hockey fully.

 

[egd27]

Again, that's because they don't count missing the playoffs as a series loss. A number of teams have had a combination of first round losses and missing over an equal or longer period of time than we have, we're just the first to have the consistency of making the playoffs each year, only to lose in the first round.

Really?

Please list the number of teams that have not won a playoff series since 2004.

 

[Lightsol]

Really?

Please list the number of teams that have not won a playoff series since 2004.

But now you're heaping the failures of previous management teams on the current one AND moving the goalposts. The question is, what teams haven't won a playoff series in 6 consecutive seasons, and there's an easy immediate answer to that: the currently favored Tampa Bay Lightning have done it twice in their history, including straight out of the lockout. As I said, they don't count it the way they're counting the Leafs right now because the Leafs actually made the playoffs 6 years in a row, whereas Tampa missed for most of both their streaks.

But hey, if we're going to blame management for the failures of past managements as well as their own, since we haven't win a Cup since '67, I guess we really ought to be firing the entire management team every year until we win a round. After all, each failure is another in the 20+ years of playoff failure, right? And we NEED someone to pay for that failure, right?

 

[ACC1224]

in 2017 our own fanbase was comparing us to the 2009-2016 Blackhawks who won 3 cups and made 4 final 4 appearances along with dominant reg seasons.

It's crazy we're only 2 years from the Blackhawk's total era of dominance and we've still not won a playoff series.

Leafs' core 4 has not worked. JT has been a disaster as a captain and as an 11M center. Nylander is a better player than him now or very close... heck JT isn't even a top 30 player in the league anymore. He's underwhelming in the reg season and outright disappointing in the playoffs.

Until JT has a series where he dominates start to finish and plays like an elite 1C, the leafs won win a 1st round series.

Goaltending isn't good enough with too much of the cap going to the big 4.

Depth does not contribute offense very often in the playoffs and have made some brutal mistakes in the past 2 years (sandin/Dermott/galchenyuk in 2021, and Kerfoot, Simmonds in 2022)

Keefe is not a flexible coach and is not one to tinker with the lines until its very late in a game/series.

16/34 will continue to face shutdown defenses and be swarmed. They had 9 and 8 pts in 7 games yet it wasn't enough.

We need JT to have a clutch series and be the best player on the ice next year if we want to bea tampa/flordia/boston. He gets softer matchups than those 2, has WN who is a very skilled player and in general is supposed to be a guy who drives offense and elevates his linemates.

Next year should be his last as a leaf if we're out in the 1st round.

Leafs had more regular season points this year than any Hawk team ever did.
They've surpassed the dynasty Hawk teams

 

[Leaf Fans]

Leafs had more regular season points this year than any Hawk team ever did.
They've surpassed the dynasty Hawk teams

Yeah, but the Hawks won Cups. I agree we have a good team, but they haven't won in the playoffs.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

The loss they had to Tampa should've been the gold standard years ago instead of 4 shitshows and THEN they finally have a good performance where you literally cannot do any better and still not win. The only other consolation of this entire era is that their loss to the Capitals was absolutely NOTHING to be ashamed of given where they were at the time and you'd have thought "This team is going up" instead of not even managing to get out of the 1st round

 

[Nylanderthal]

Yeah, but the Hawks won Cups. I agree we have a good team, but they haven't won in the playoffs.

 

[Leaf Fans]

View attachment 555478

I don't get it.

 

[Trapper]

Leafs had more regular season points this year than any Hawk team ever did.
They've surpassed the dynasty Hawk teams

And we jumped right to the part where we pay everyone like Cup Champs and bleed the depth (Kadri,Brown,Kap,Komarov,Johnsson,1st round picks,etc.) like we are trying to win our 2nd and 3rd.

Wouldn’t be as funny if we weren’t trying to just win a round for the 7th time. Oops.

 

[egd27]

But now you're heaping the failures of previous management teams on the current one AND moving the goalposts. The question is, what teams haven't won a playoff series in 6 consecutive seasons, and there's an easy immediate answer to that: the currently favored Tampa Bay Lightning have done it twice in their history, including straight out of the lockout. As I said, they don't count it the way they're counting the Leafs right now because the Leafs actually made the playoffs 6 years in a row, whereas Tampa missed for most of both their streaks.

But hey, if we're going to blame management for the failures of past managements as well as their own, since we haven't win a Cup since '67, I guess we really ought to be firing the entire management team every year until we win a round. After all, each failure is another in the 20+ years of playoff failure, right? And we NEED someone to pay for that failure, right?

Ok let's ignore the past 16 years of failure to win a round (longest active streak in the NHL) and focus on the current 6 year streak.

You are correct, there are a number of other teams in that group, and that number is 5. So we can be mentioned alongside the Sabres, Devils, Wings, Wild, and Kings.

Yay us!

 

[Lightsol]

And we jumped right to the part where we pay everyone like Cup Champs and bleed the depth (Kadri,Brown,Kap,Komarov,Johnsson,1st round picks,etc.) like we are trying to win our 2nd and 3rd.

Wouldn’t be as funny if we weren’t trying to just win a round for the 7th time. Oops.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could abuse the salary cap like the Hawks did?

 

[Lightsol]

Ok let's ignore the past 16 years of failure to win a round (longest active streak in the NHL) and focus on the current 6 year streak.

You are correct, there are a number of other teams in that group, and that number is 5. So we can be mentioned alongside the Sabres, Devils, Wings, Wild, and Kings.

Yay us!

You're STILL moving the damned goalposts. Now you're trying to restrict it only to teams CURRENTLY on this streak and saying "Look how bad they are; we should be better!" as if we didn't go through an even bigger drought before Shanny took over.

Again, there is NOTHING UNUSUAL about the Leafs' current loss streak when it comes to NHL history, except for one thing; it's rare that a team repeatedly makes the playoffs without running a round over and over again. Usually the team either misses a few times (way more common) or start winning a round or two. So when people call this "historical futility", they ignore that the general pattern teams follow here is actually WORSE.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could abuse the salary cap like the Hawks did?

It also abused them because they had to get rid of a bunch of players.

 

[Lightsol]

It also abused them because they had to get rid of a bunch of players.

Yeah, after the loopholes were closed and the Hawks ended up having to deal with the actual result of throwing around some of the money they did. But having Hossa and Sharp cheap certainly helped.

 

[Trapper]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could abuse the salary cap like the Hawks did?

Oh those poor Leafs. If only they had the ability to trade for and pay David Clarkson to be on IR in order to pay a player 11 million dollars and abuse the Cap that way. Alas, some teams get all the breaks.

 

[Lightsol]

Oh those poor Leafs. If only they had the ability to trade for and pay David Clarkson to be on IR in order to pay a player 11 million dollars and abuse the Cap that way. Alas, some teams get all the breaks.

You don't think the lineup would be very different if the Leafs could sign guys to contracts that pay tons but end up with a cap hit around 1/5th that price?

 

[Bomber0104]

You don't think the lineup would be very different if the Leafs could sign guys to contracts that pay tons but end up with a cap hit around 1/5th that price?

How many players did the Hawks do that with again?

And I think you can put that theory to bed seeing as wonderboy Kyle couldn't figure out a way to get our best player under contract for more than 5 years anyway.