How many first round loses is Dubas allowed before he should be fired?

[Racer88]

Yup,he has 13 points in his 32 playoff games with Toronto.

Was sad to see him go

 

[Leaf Fans]

Was sad to see him go

Sure, he was offered more money and term. The only criticism people had was the back end of the contract. Everyone knew Edmonton was getting a good player.

 

[Racer88]

Sure, he was offered more money and term. The only criticism people had was the back end of the contract. Everyone knew Edmonton was getting a good player.

Kadri lighting it up now……sure wish we had a guy like that……oh wait we did……..way to go Dubas.

Sure, he was offered more money and term. The only criticism people had was the back end of the contract. Everyone knew Edmonton was getting a good player.

Yup and we couldn’t even try to keep him because Dubas gave all the money to the fab 4

 

[Confucius]

Leafs didn't play the Panthers so we don't know that.

Certainly the Bolts are better than both, which to many is not surprising despite the regular season standings.

They both played Tampa and one did far better than the other

we actually outscored Tampa 23 to 22, Panthers managed to score 3 goals. Lol!

 

[Leaf Fans]

Kadri lighting it up now……sure wish we had a guy like that……oh wait we did……..way to go Dubas.


Yup and we couldn’t even try to keep him because Dubas gave all the money to the fab 4

Yeah, Kadri might get through the playoffs without costing his team this year. I hope he does. As for Hyman, the Leafs did try to sign him. Less term and money though, but not by much.

 

[Racer88]

Yeah, Kadri might get through the playoffs without costing his team this year. I hope he does. As for Hyman, the Leafs did try to sign him. Less term and money though, but not by much.

I understand they tried to sign him but didn’t have enough space

 

[LeafEgo]

Better defensive roster ?? .... Besides how are you defining 'better" its subjective?

If Dubas had a better defensive roster how come he didn't produce better playoff results?

The 2017-18 Leafs team last managed under Lou Lam gave up 232 goals against vs 2021-22 Leafs team last managed by Dubas gave up 253 GA [+ 21 extra goals against]. That is actual not subjective.

Of the 8 teams the made the playoffs from the Eastern conference this year the Leafs would be ranked 8th and last in most goals against in comparison. The Tampa Bay team that they lost to gave up 233 GA and -20 goals less, and would have compared better against the Leafs 2017-18 roster that surrendered 232 GA because they were better defensively speaking.

At what point do we start counting playoff round wins with Dubas?

I dont know which team had a better defensive roster, however it might be defined, but it's inconsequential when comparing the two GMs - among many other discussion points.

Lou's mission was to take the Leafs from zero to contenders through a rebuild where attempting to ice the best defense in the league would not have been priority, and counterproductive to long term strategy. Lou exceeded any realistic expectations in executing his mission.

The Dubas mission was to start contending, with a different set of objectives - and we start counting playoff round wins. Dubas has performed poorly in his mission. Clearly he was not ready.

What's hard to stomach is that most assumed this from the beginning, and then watched in horror as it played out - particularly his first couple goes at it. He has improved.

Unfortunately the damage can't be reversed.

 

[LeafEgo]

They both played Tampa and one did far better than the other

we actually outscored Tampa 23 to 22, Panthers managed to score 3 goals. Lol!

This is like when someone looks at the boxing Champs record and finds a fighter he lost to. And then finds a fighter that that person lost to, and so on. Then eventually determines that some scrub could beat the champ, because he beat this person who beat that person.

It doesn't work like that.

Bolts beat the Panthers and the Bolts beat the Leafs. The Leafs and the Panthers never played each other - so we can only speculate for fun.

 

[Confucius]

This is like when someone looks at the boxing Champs record and finds a fighter he lost to. And then finds a fighter that that person lost to, and so on. Then eventually determines that some scrub could beat the champ, because he beat this person who beat that person.

It doesn't work like that.

Bolts beat the Panthers and the Bolts beat the Leafs. The Leafs and the Panthers never played each other - so we can only speculate for fun.

Yet the team that wins the cup is considered the best even though they didn’t play the other 11 teams. Yep makes sense to me. Lol

 

[Nylanderthal]

No it was answered directly at our MLSE sponsorship mtg last week for annual arena sponsors of which one of my 3 companies is a sponsor

It’s GFL isn’t it?

 

[LeafEgo]

Yet the team that wins the cup is considered the best even though they didn’t play the other 11 teams. Yep makes sense to me. Lol

Get used to it, thats how things work.

Gotta earn your shot.

 

[Bomber0104]

The irony being that if you flipped the timeline with Dubas and Lou Lam around, and it was Dubas that inherited a last overall team, and drafted Matthews #1OA and then restored the Leafs to a playoff team, after a record setting regular season, but lost in round #1 after his 3 years of service, with then Lou Lam a proven Cup winner, and he then went on to deliver 4 straight (including some embarrassing performance CBJ and MON) round #1 losses thereafter those same people would be screaming bloody murder. IMO

I'll go one further that had Lou Lam be given the opportunity to continue on and then lost to teams like CBJ and MON running his playoff record to 0-4 or 0-5 in terms of advancing beyond round #1, then there wouldn't be a single Leaf fan on the planet that wouldn't want him replaced and rightfully so, in the best interest of the Leafs team.

So logiacally trying to explain why Lou Lam record at 0-2 in round #1 losses is BAD, yeat now Kyle Dubas now at 0-4 (after inheriting a +100 point team, and young core) is GOOD, is illogical, if the measure of job performance is based on playoff round wins.

It's not supposed to make sense.

I don't believe for one second that Dubas' withering fanbase has any interest in the team's results at this point.

That's just a charade.

They only care about results in-so-much as to get Dubas more clout as a credible GM in the NHL, which he never has been or will be (by my estimation).

You have to remember that there's a good chunk of the made-for-free-internet-blogger-stats fans out there that have identified him as their poster-boy, and that feel they have a personal obligation to support him due to their own personal biases. Posting in favor of everything he does is the modus operandi.

On the other hand, real Leafs fans, not Dubas fans, who want to see the team improve and progress as a Cup contender are being stifled by said fans across all forms of media.

We're essentially being told by fans (some with Justin Bieber avatars) "how dare we expect a first round victory" with evidence of progress being pointed to a couple extra points in regular-season standings from now and 2017, five years ago with Lou's developing team...

What a time this is as a Leafs fan.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yet the team that wins the cup is considered the best even though they didn’t play the other 11 teams. Yep makes sense to me. Lol

Yes but they play that same team in a best-of-seven that beat the other teams in a best-of-seven in their group, who themselves beat the best of the best-of-seven in their own group...

You're basically arguing against tournament formats, in their entirety, which is quite literally one of the worst sports takes I've ever read on any platform of reading.

The World Cup should be abolished too next, yeah?

What about Wimbledon?

All this to excuse the Toronto Maple Leafs of their playoff failures.

It's not the Leafs that are the problem, it's the tournament, OF COURSE!

 

[rocketman588]

Yes but they play that same team in a best-of-seven that beat the other teams in a best-of-seven in their group, who themselves beat the best of the best-of-seven in their own group...

You're basically arguing against tournament formats, in their entirety, which is quite literally one of the worst sports takes I've ever read on any platform of reading.

The World Cup should be abolished too next, yeah?

What about Wimbledon?

All this to excuse the Toronto Maple Leafs of their playoff failures.

It's not the Leafs that are the problem, it's the tournament, OF COURSE!

We should just go to the soccer format where best record wins the cup

Oh wait we wouldn't have ever won that with dubas either?

Oh never mind

 

[nuck]

I dont know which team had a better defensive roster, however it might be defined, but it's inconsequential when comparing the two GMs - among many other discussion points.

Lou's mission was to take the Leafs from zero to contenders through a rebuild where attempting to ice the best defense in the league would not have been priority, and counterproductive to long term strategy. Lou exceeded any realistic expectations in executing his mission.

The Dubas mission was to start contending, with a different set of objectives - and we start counting playoff round wins. Dubas has performed poorly in his mission. Clearly he was not ready.

What's hard to stomach is that most assumed this from the beginning, and then watched in horror as it played out - particularly his first couple goes at it. He has improved.

Unfortunately the damage can't be reversed.

I look at it as a bad rookie season for KD. He added JT knowing the club probably needed D more but there was no such impactful D man to be had. Not an error at the time because the cap had been growing continuously and you can't manage your cap on the basis of "lets never spend in case a previously unseen event should occur". Bad luck, not bad Duber

I don't think there has been a prior situation where RFAs wanted to base their contracts on what UFAs were getting so that wasn't even a rookie mistake, more like a WTF moment. Dubas plan of signing Willie to a market comparable deal, then Marner and then Matthews was a sound strategy and if team Nylander had used any kind of a fair market evaluator its a different cap situation and the chain reaction that followed. Almost all of that was bad luck vs bad choices.

HIs real rookie GM mistake was still trying to cuddle up with Willie once that big expectation came out when he should have just dealt the guy which would have empowered the club with the Marner and Matthew negotiations. But what if Willie had agreed to $7M a year a week into the holdout? At what point should KD have assumed that it was going to the eleventh hour? Nylander didn't cave to accept a deal $500k more than he should have received' and Dubas didn't cave offering the maximum number he could stomach to get the team back asap. The damage can be reversed by trading Willie before they have to re-sign him under a new cap.

 

[Bomber0104]

The Dubas mission was to start contending, with a different set of objectives - and we start counting playoff round wins. Dubas has performed poorly in his mission. Clearly he was not ready.

What's hard to stomach is that most assumed this from the beginning, and then watched in horror as it played out - particularly his first couple goes at it. He has improved.

Unfortunately the damage can't be reversed.

Everything in your post except the bolded is a spot-on historical playback.

Most intelligent, experienced hockey people assumed this.

 

[Pens x]

Maybe now but you just saw back to back Cups. I wouldn’t make a peep about management/question anything they do for 20 years if they gave us that.

You would if they hired an idiot like Hextall to be GM.

 

[rocketman588]

You would if they hired an idiot like Hextall to be GM.

Dubas is one stressful week away from virtue hiring Leah hextall as AGM

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's not supposed to make sense.

I don't believe for one second that Dubas' withering fanbase has any interest in the team's results at this point.

That's just a charade.

They only care about results in-so-much as to get Dubas more clout as a credible GM in the NHL, which he never has been or will be (by my estimation).

You have to remember that there's a good chunk of the made-for-free-internet-blogger-stats fans out there that have identified him as their poster-boy, and that feel they have a personal obligation to support him due to their own personal biases. Posting in favor of everything he does is the modus operandi.

On the other hand, real Leafs fans, not Dubas fans, who want to see the team improve and progress as a Cup contender are being stifled by said fans across all forms of media.

We're essentially being told by fans (some with Justin Bieber avatars) "how dare we expect a first round victory" with evidence of progress being pointed to a couple extra points in regular-season standings from now and 2017, five years ago with Lou's developing team...

What a time this is as a Leafs fan.

I think you're getting carried away here. There are 2 posters who seem to be in love with Dubas and I think even they probably do care. But even if they don't though, it's two people FFS, just ignore them if they bother you that much. Take my word for it, you won't miss their posts.

I look at it as a bad rookie season for KD. He added JT knowing the club probably needed D more but there was no such impactful D man to be had. Not an error at the time because the cap had been growing continuously and you can't manage your cap on the basis of "lets never spend in case a previously unseen event should occur". Bad luck, not bad Duber

I don't think there has been a prior situation where RFAs wanted to base their contracts on what UFAs were getting so that wasn't even a rookie mistake, more like a WTF moment. Dubas plan of signing Willie to a market comparable deal, then Marner and then Matthews was a sound strategy and if team Nylander had used any kind of a fair market evaluator its a different cap situation and the chain reaction that followed. Almost all of that was bad luck vs bad choices.

HIs real rookie GM mistake was still trying to cuddle up with Willie once that big expectation came out when he should have just dealt the guy which would have empowered the club with the Marner and Matthew negotiations. But what if Willie had agreed to $7M a year a week into the holdout? At what point should KD have assumed that it was going to the eleventh hour? Nylander didn't cave to accept a deal $500k more than he should have received' and Dubas didn't cave offering the maximum number he could stomach to get the team back asap. The damage can be reversed by trading Willie before they have to re-sign him under a new cap.

Yeah that's a good way of putting it IMO. On one hand, I don't think it's such a big deal because it's really only Marner we're talking about here. On the other hand, what bothers me about this is not how big or small a mistake it was, it's that it was such an obvious mistake that I can't for the life of me understand how it's even possible for Dubas to make such a mistake. I swear we could win the cup the next three 3 years in a row and I'll be happy as hell if that happens but still, I will never be able to think about Marner's contract without thinking ... WTF?

 

[Suntouchable13]

How come this young Ranger team can win game 7s against superior teams but fans here make excuses for the Leafs “Oh Boston is tough” “Tampa are the back-to-back champs”

 

[ToneDog]

How come this young Ranger team can win game 7s against superior teams but fans here make excuses for the Leafs “Oh Boston is tough” “Tampa are the back-to-back champs”

Have won 2 games 7's (one home, one away) this playoffs alone. Krieder is a beast in game 7s. We are p***yes in game 7s.

 

[Racer88]

Have won 2 games 7's (one home, one away) this playoffs alone. Krieder is a beast in game 7s. We are p***yes in game 7s.

It’s all to do with the grit and heart of the players…….they got it we don’t

 

[ACC1224]

How come this young Ranger team can win game 7s against superior teams but fans here make excuses for the Leafs “Oh Boston is tough” “Tampa are the back-to-back champs”

Obviously 'luckier'. Keep up!

 

[ShaneFalco]

How come this young Ranger team can win game 7s against superior teams but fans here make excuses for the Leafs “Oh Boston is tough” “Tampa are the back-to-back champs”

It's either "context", "goalied" or bad kuck

 

[ToneDog]

Vasi vs Soup and Shesherkin vs Raanta. Team with the better goalie won both game #7s in the East and on the road.